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PA House Passes Ban on Downs Abortion

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SocOfAutism
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19 Apr 2018, 9:41 am

http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch ... n-syndrome

I’ve been keeping an eye on this. I really like Downs people, number one. I’m a person with a serious genetic disease who would be targeted by eugenics, number two. But number three, the scientists that be seem pretty interested in finding an “autism gene” so you guys very well may be next for selective abortion. With no autists, our society would unravel pretty quickly. The rest of us would be watering the plants with Gatorade and living in mountains of trash.

Personally, I think that is the goal. Get rid of the different thinkers. The rest of us are easier to herd. Hmm.



karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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19 Apr 2018, 3:28 pm

I think the answer is never to curtail the choices a woman has over her body, but to educate people on the value of the differently-abled to society. If society were more inclusive of people who were different and recognized the value of people who contributed differently due to their different abilities, then we wouldn't need to remove the choices of prospective parents. But if someone doesn't want a disabled child or thinks for whatever reason they could not properly love and support a disabled child, then they shouldn't be forced to carry one to term.

Restricting abortion rights will not fix this problem. Restricting abortion rights will never solve any problems, but it creates all sorts of its own problems (like limiting the rights and freedoms of women over their own bodies and reproductive choices.)



adoylelb90815
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22 Apr 2018, 3:28 pm

Restricting abortion rights won't stop all abortions, instead it will be a return to when women died from unsafe abortion attempts, and reduces women to being treated as incubators. Another issue is that not all women want to or are capable of caring for a disabled child, especially if there are no services provided, and it could lead to children with disabilities being murdered by their parents.



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27 Apr 2018, 7:01 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
I think the answer is never to curtail the choices a woman has over her body, but to educate people on the value of the differently-abled to society. If society were more inclusive of people who were different and recognized the value of people who contributed differently due to their different abilities, then we wouldn't need to remove the choices of prospective parents. But if someone doesn't want a disabled child or thinks for whatever reason they could not properly love and support a disabled child, then they shouldn't be forced to carry one to term.

Restricting abortion rights will not fix this problem. Restricting abortion rights will never solve any problems, but it creates all sorts of its own problems (like limiting the rights and freedoms of women over their own bodies and reproductive choices.)


I still err on opposing abortion and still believe it needs to be restricted or less easy to access (not a form of birth control). Relaxing abortion laws probably wouldn't lead to overall better outcomes, but more likely the opposite, perverse incentive. Like when the case of Roe vs. Wade was settled back in 1973, the number of abortions increased for a while before the court activists declared it a legal right nationwide. I guess one can say that the rate has stabilized in more recent times, but it's still quite a different picture than it was 50 years ago. And, the absolute number of aborted fetus is today in the millions. That seems like a pretty concerning perspective.



karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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27 Apr 2018, 7:12 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
I think the answer is never to curtail the choices a woman has over her body, but to educate people on the value of the differently-abled to society. If society were more inclusive of people who were different and recognized the value of people who contributed differently due to their different abilities, then we wouldn't need to remove the choices of prospective parents. But if someone doesn't want a disabled child or thinks for whatever reason they could not properly love and support a disabled child, then they shouldn't be forced to carry one to term.

Restricting abortion rights will not fix this problem. Restricting abortion rights will never solve any problems, but it creates all sorts of its own problems (like limiting the rights and freedoms of women over their own bodies and reproductive choices.)


I still err on opposing abortion and still believe it needs to be restricted or less easy to access (not a form of birth control). Relaxing abortion laws probably wouldn't lead to overall better outcomes, but more likely the opposite, perverse incentive. Like when the case of Roe vs. Wade was settled back in 1973, the number of abortions increased for a while before the court activists declared it a legal right nationwide. I guess one can say that the rate has stabilized in more recent times, but it's still quite a different picture than it was 50 years ago. And, the absolute number of aborted fetus is today in the millions. That seems like a pretty concerning perspective.


I'm not interested in discussing abortion with someone who very obviously is misinformed about the topic. If you want to have a discussion about abortion in which you are actually armed with some facts, you should do some research on the many benefits of fully legalized abortion for women and for communities and the many dangers to women when abortion is restricted. If you come back armed for a proper discussion with some good information I might reconsider. Until then, no thanks.



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27 Apr 2018, 9:52 pm

But what "un-factual" things did I really say?
I didn't say any outright lies.



karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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27 Apr 2018, 10:05 pm

Until you show you've informed yourself on the topic, no thanks.

I'm just not in the mood to have a discussion with a man about a procedure he will never personally need to be concerned about happening to his own body that he is obviously misinformed about. I don't have the energy to walk any more men through the conversation about why I should have rights to choose what happens to and in my body, about why a society that allows for women to choose abortion is a healthier, wiser, and more practical society. Have someone else walk you through the basics, do the work yourself and go learn from legitimate sources about what abortion really is and why in an equal democracy women should have the right to basic health care and reproductive choices for themselves. I won't do that for you. Don't be satisfied to live (and judge others) in your ignorance.



eeVenye
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28 Apr 2018, 1:20 pm

Given that eugenics is back on the rise in the "civilized" world (Scandanavia, England, US), I greatly applaud these actions!


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30 Apr 2018, 3:44 pm

eeVenye wrote:
Given that eugenics is back on the rise in the "civilized" world (Scandanavia, England, US), I greatly applaud these actions!

Can I have an example of eugenics being on the rise in England please?


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30 Apr 2018, 4:01 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Until you show you've informed yourself on the topic, no thanks.

I'm just not in the mood to have a discussion with a man about a procedure he will never personally need to be concerned about happening to his own body that he is obviously misinformed about.
This does sound as if you mean he's not allowed an opinion because he's a man
Quote:
I don't have the energy to walk any more men through the conversation about why I should have rights to choose what happens to and in my body, about why a society that allows for women to choose abortion is a healthier, wiser, and more practical society. Have someone else walk you through the basics, do the work yourself and go learn from legitimate sources about what abortion really is and why in an equal democracy women should have the right to basic health care and reproductive choices for themselves. I won't do that for you. Don't be satisfied to live (and judge others) in your ignorance.
Very patronising.


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karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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30 Apr 2018, 4:12 pm

fluffysaurus wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Until you show you've informed yourself on the topic, no thanks.

I'm just not in the mood to have a discussion with a man about a procedure he will never personally need to be concerned about happening to his own body that he is obviously misinformed about.
This does sound as if you mean he's not allowed an opinion because he's a man
Quote:
I don't have the energy to walk any more men through the conversation about why I should have rights to choose what happens to and in my body, about why a society that allows for women to choose abortion is a healthier, wiser, and more practical society. Have someone else walk you through the basics, do the work yourself and go learn from legitimate sources about what abortion really is and why in an equal democracy women should have the right to basic health care and reproductive choices for themselves. I won't do that for you. Don't be satisfied to live (and judge others) in your ignorance.
Very patronising.



It means that's how I feel about having conversations about abortion with men who are against women having control over their own bodies. From my perspective, it's very patronizing for men to think they should be able to dictate what options women have in regards to pregnancy when it's not something that happens to their bodies.



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30 Apr 2018, 4:35 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
fluffysaurus wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Until you show you've informed yourself on the topic, no thanks.

I'm just not in the mood to have a discussion with a man about a procedure he will never personally need to be concerned about happening to his own body that he is obviously misinformed about.
This does sound as if you mean he's not allowed an opinion because he's a man
Quote:
I don't have the energy to walk any more men through the conversation about why I should have rights to choose what happens to and in my body, about why a society that allows for women to choose abortion is a healthier, wiser, and more practical society. Have someone else walk you through the basics, do the work yourself and go learn from legitimate sources about what abortion really is and why in an equal democracy women should have the right to basic health care and reproductive choices for themselves. I won't do that for you. Don't be satisfied to live (and judge others) in your ignorance.
Very patronising.



It means that's how I feel about having conversations about abortion with men who are against women having control over their own bodies. From my perspective, it's very patronizing for men to think they should be able to dictate what options women have in regards to pregnancy when it's not something that happens to their bodies.
Do you feel that people should only give their opinions on subjects that are likely to effect them personally?


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karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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30 Apr 2018, 5:29 pm

fluffysaurus wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
fluffysaurus wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Until you show you've informed yourself on the topic, no thanks.

I'm just not in the mood to have a discussion with a man about a procedure he will never personally need to be concerned about happening to his own body that he is obviously misinformed about.
This does sound as if you mean he's not allowed an opinion because he's a man
Quote:
I don't have the energy to walk any more men through the conversation about why I should have rights to choose what happens to and in my body, about why a society that allows for women to choose abortion is a healthier, wiser, and more practical society. Have someone else walk you through the basics, do the work yourself and go learn from legitimate sources about what abortion really is and why in an equal democracy women should have the right to basic health care and reproductive choices for themselves. I won't do that for you. Don't be satisfied to live (and judge others) in your ignorance.
Very patronising.



It means that's how I feel about having conversations about abortion with men who are against women having control over their own bodies. From my perspective, it's very patronizing for men to think they should be able to dictate what options women have in regards to pregnancy when it's not something that happens to their bodies.
Do you feel that people should only give their opinions on subjects that are likely to effect them personally?


Not generally, no. I just know I am tired of having this conversation with men about my rights over my body.



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30 Apr 2018, 8:23 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Until you show you've informed yourself on the topic, no thanks.

I'm just not in the mood to have a discussion with a man about a procedure he will never personally need to be concerned about happening to his own body that he is obviously misinformed about. I don't have the energy to walk any more men through the conversation about why I should have rights to choose what happens to and in my body, about why a society that allows for women to choose abortion is a healthier, wiser, and more practical society. Have someone else walk you through the basics, do the work yourself and go learn from legitimate sources about what abortion really is and why in an equal democracy women should have the right to basic health care and reproductive choices for themselves. I won't do that for you. Don't be satisfied to live (and judge others) in your ignorance.


All you are doing is trying to attack me and my having an opinion.
It's also ridiculously hypocritical to blame "men" as if you are generalizing all men in a demeaning way.



karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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30 Apr 2018, 9:04 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Until you show you've informed yourself on the topic, no thanks.

I'm just not in the mood to have a discussion with a man about a procedure he will never personally need to be concerned about happening to his own body that he is obviously misinformed about. I don't have the energy to walk any more men through the conversation about why I should have rights to choose what happens to and in my body, about why a society that allows for women to choose abortion is a healthier, wiser, and more practical society. Have someone else walk you through the basics, do the work yourself and go learn from legitimate sources about what abortion really is and why in an equal democracy women should have the right to basic health care and reproductive choices for themselves. I won't do that for you. Don't be satisfied to live (and judge others) in your ignorance.


All you are doing is trying to attack me and my having an opinion.
It's also ridiculously hypocritical to blame "men" as if you are generalizing all men in a demeaning way.


If you believe my post to you was a personal attack then report it to the moderators.



eeVenye
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30 Apr 2018, 10:18 pm

fluffysaurus wrote:
eeVenye wrote:
Given that eugenics is back on the rise in the "civilized" world (Scandanavia, England, US), I greatly applaud these actions!

Can I have an example of eugenics being on the rise in England please?


Alfie Evans. RIP
Charlie Gard. RIP


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