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zee
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13 Feb 2008, 4:14 am

Here is a diagram of 2 different psyches, the id is red, the ego is purple, and the superego is in blue. Which appeals to you more, and why?

Image

I was thinking about a possible connection between my low libido and my penchant for extended abstract thought. My idea is that the conscious mind only has so much energy it can expend at one time. If there really is a physical distance that needs to be travelled between thoughts, and you have followed this train of abstract thought for some time, then you are further removed from the id and therefore less inclined towards sexual desire.

The only other logical explaination I have come up with is that the Aspie's tendancy to focus on one thing at a time can make sex a mundane pasttime. I know many of you will disagree with this one, and I'm sure gender does make a difference, but what do you think of my diagram?



McGuinness
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13 Feb 2008, 6:26 am

I think you're absolutely right. However I do think with practice you can learn to make sex one of the things you focus on too, but at least for me that is a relatively difficult process.

I don't see why so many people think of meditation being a weird or unusual thing to do.... When I would go on break at work, I would walk out to my car and meditate, and always have to stop every few seconds to look over my shoulder to make sure no other coworkers had walked outside and could see me, for fear of them bringing it up while I wasn't around and saying mean things about me. Sometimes I hate teenagers even though I just turned 20 and have little right, if any, to say that.

The point of bringing up meditation though, is that it helps you focus your mind on whatever matter comes to hand. For people with aspergers, ADD and similar "syndromes" and "disorders" that can be life changing. I have gotten so much better at socializing, and figuring out how to properly communicate with members of the opposite sex since I have begun meditation it is unreal. I always underestimated how big of an impact it could have on my life, and considering I'm still "new" at it I can't wait to find out what else it can do for me. I highly recommend you look into it....

edit - I don't know what you mean by ID so I'm not really applicable for the test... but to some extent the object on the left appeals to me, because the colors feel more contained and one with each other. At the same time however, the ones on the right seem to be more interesting and intriguing, but I can focus on whichever one I want, and consciously make myself act in a manner that would be consistent with either one, depending on whether it is more or less socially acceptable to be that way at the time.

I haven't been here very long but I find your posts very interesting and well thought out. I think you have a lot of good things to say, and look forward to hearing more of them.



ouinon
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13 Feb 2008, 7:25 am

i don't think that there is necessarily any connection between the super-ego and abstract thought. i thought the super-ego was about self control, self discipline, etc, which in my case at least is definitely not something i associate with my abstract thought. in fact my abstract thought is a most uncontrolled and undisciplined tendency! :lol:

I would associate abstract thought more with the id/libido in the sense of having replaced the sex drive!

The old word for this replacement was "sublimation"; abstract thought/imaginative mental activity being driven by very same thing that drives people to have sex! The idea was that "sublimation" happened as a result of suppression/repression of the "natural" feelings in earliest infancy, but perhaps the process is a mixture of genes and environment, that determines how the brain develops in the crucial first couple of years, so that the body is not so closely/reliably linked to the brain, becoming more a source of anxiety/disorientation than of pleasure, so that abstract thought is then amongst the most satisfying things going, or seems to be unless put lots and lots of energy into maintaining contact with body with exercise etc.

In other words that in some/many humans the old animal instinct to mate has been "relaxed", leading to greater freedom of activity.

Of course in a social environment which is stressing sexual activity this can seem like a deficiency, whereas in fact it is a sign of freedom! :lol:

PS: re the pictures, i like both of them together. They look like two phases of action of the same creature. ( the reproductive stage on the right! :D ) Not keen on either them considered separately tho.

8)



snake321
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13 Feb 2008, 10:22 am

The ego is a complex thing, and I'd say it's a necessary thing to try and overcome, because ego truely can cloud one's judgement (also it can make them much easier to brainwash, from my experience)....... To truely be free of the ego philosophically, and intellectually, one must be willing to consider all possibilities, no matter how "controversial", and bear an open mind, but be able to decipher possibility from probability with the best of knowledge they have. That to me is intellectually over-stepping the ego, and it is not an easy process for many people..... Especially with all the propaganda out there fueling peoples' egos. But it's all mind over nature, freemasons were correct on that one though I despise the freemasons, and I obviously do not think high freemasonry has overcome ego (or greed or any of that other negative s**t).
The ego is the glue that holds the rest of a person's values and character traits together often but it doesn't really have to be though. I don't really think it's healthy. Ego is riddled with denial, denial is the protector of ego.



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15 Feb 2008, 12:39 am

i prefer the one on the right :P

lol the squiggly one :) natural thought sparking one :D


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iamnotaparakeet
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15 Feb 2008, 1:16 am

zee wrote:
My idea is that the conscious mind only has so much energy it can expend at one time.


It would depend on the level of interest in the subject at hand. If I am interested I can work out solutions to physics problems involving new concepts or visualize a chemical reaction mechanism or whatever else. But without interest, it is difficult to even write a sentence.

I think interest level could be the limiting factor as to how much processing power is used.



iamnotaparakeet
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15 Feb 2008, 1:19 am

I like the one on the left because it looks like a planet. The right hand one looks like a microbe.



zee
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16 Feb 2008, 3:49 am

McGuinness wrote:
I think you're absolutely right. However I do think with practice you can learn to make sex one of the things you focus on too, but at least for me that is a relatively difficult process.

I don't see why so many people think of meditation being a weird or unusual thing to do.... When I would go on break at work, I would walk out to my car and meditate, and always have to stop every few seconds to look over my shoulder to make sure no other coworkers had walked outside and could see me, for fear of them bringing it up while I wasn't around and saying mean things about me. Sometimes I hate teenagers even though I just turned 20 and have little right, if any, to say that.

The point of bringing up meditation though, is that it helps you focus your mind on whatever matter comes to hand. For people with aspergers, ADD and similar "syndromes" and "disorders" that can be life changing. I have gotten so much better at socializing, and figuring out how to properly communicate with members of the opposite sex since I have begun meditation it is unreal. I always underestimated how big of an impact it could have on my life, and considering I'm still "new" at it I can't wait to find out what else it can do for me. I highly recommend you look into it....

edit - I don't know what you mean by ID so I'm not really applicable for the test... but to some extent the object on the left appeals to me, because the colors feel more contained and one with each other. At the same time however, the ones on the right seem to be more interesting and intriguing, but I can focus on whichever one I want, and consciously make myself act in a manner that would be consistent with either one, depending on whether it is more or less socially acceptable to be that way at the time.

I haven't been here very long but I find your posts very interesting and well thought out. I think you have a lot of good things to say, and look forward to hearing more of them.


Thanks for the compliments, and welcome! :D

I admit that I borrowed Freuds terminology (id, ego, superego) and used them for my own purposes. In crude terms, the id is the most primal, unconscious part of the mind, the ego is the conscious mind, and the superego represents higher thought. Freud used the analogy of an iceberg, where the id was at the bottom, buried under the water it you will, and then the ego was in the middle, and the superego on the tip. Jung used a similar analogy with a house that had a basement, groundfloor, and attic.
I thought about these things for a while and then developed my own model where the id is like a core and everything else grows outward. Basically, the id is the seed that we grow from, and everything else is added to that, growing outward in all directions. Another analogy is the earth's fiery core, which is covered by the mantle, and then there are cities built on top of the mantle.

When you meditate, do follow any special procedure? I've never specifically tried this. (But I find that my mind naturally meditates on things while I'm going through daily life.)



zee
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16 Feb 2008, 4:08 am

ouinon wrote:
i don't think that there is necessarily any connection between the super-ego and abstract thought. i thought the super-ego was about self control, self discipline, etc, which in my case at least is definitely not something i associate with my abstract thought. in fact my abstract thought is a most uncontrolled and undisciplined tendency! :lol:


I think it's both--you're right that discipline and self contol require the logical willpower of the superego. Abstract thought without cognitive control, ie "stream of consiousness" thinking, would fall somewhere in the ego range, I think. But the type of thought I was referring to was controlled thought about particular subjects, which is abstract in the sense that they are isolated from other thoughts and functions of the mind. I don't associate the id with thinking at all, only with physical feeling and emotion.


ouinon wrote:
I would associate abstract thought more with the id/libido in the sense of having replaced the sex drive!

The old word for this replacement was "sublimation"; abstract thought/imaginative mental activity being driven by very same thing that drives people to have sex! The idea was that "sublimation" happened as a result of suppression/repression of the "natural" feelings in earliest infancy, but perhaps the process is a mixture of genes and environment, that determines how the brain develops in the crucial first couple of years, so that the body is not so closely/reliably linked to the brain, becoming more a source of anxiety/disorientation than of pleasure, so that abstract thought is then amongst the most satisfying things going, or seems to be unless put lots and lots of energy into maintaining contact with body with exercise etc.


That's very interesting, I will have to read more about this sublimation theory! I've never thought of myself as repressed, and you would think that repeated sexual experience might lessen the effect, but on the other hand, if the id is the very core of our being, then it probably can't be changed. So in other words, I agree with what you wrote, yet feel the need to paraphrase it.


ouinon wrote:
In other words that in some/many humans the old animal instinct to mate has been "relaxed", leading to greater freedom of activity.

Of course in a social environment which is stressing sexual activity this can seem like a deficiency, whereas in fact it is a sign of freedom! :lol:


Yes, I've always thought it peculiar why people need to talk about sex. It's not really connected to the conscious mind, is it?

ouinon wrote:
PS: re the pictures, i like both of them together. They look like two phases of action of the same creature. ( the reproductive stage on the right! :D ) Not keen on either them considered separately tho.

8)


Yes, I can't decide which one is better. I guess the mind is alive, so it could be both. :)



zee
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16 Feb 2008, 4:14 am

snake321 wrote:
The ego is a complex thing, and I'd say it's a necessary thing to try and overcome, because ego truely can cloud one's judgement (also it can make them much easier to brainwash, from my experience)....... To truely be free of the ego philosophically, and intellectually, one must be willing to consider all possibilities, no matter how "controversial", and bear an open mind, but be able to decipher possibility from probability with the best of knowledge they have. That to me is intellectually over-stepping the ego, and it is not an easy process for many people..... Especially with all the propaganda out there fueling peoples' egos. But it's all mind over nature, freemasons were correct on that one though I despise the freemasons, and I obviously do not think high freemasonry has overcome ego (or greed or any of that other negative sh**).
The ego is the glue that holds the rest of a person's values and character traits together often but it doesn't really have to be though. I don't really think it's healthy. Ego is riddled with denial, denial is the protector of ego.


It is the glue between emotions and higher thought, I agree. But you seem to be using the word interchangeably with the ego in the sense of pride.
I don't think it's possible to have higher thoughts without having lower thoughts to build them onto. Ie a bigger truth is made up of smaller truths, or alternately, you can't have flowers without leaves. It's a progression.



zee
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16 Feb 2008, 4:15 am

kiwi wrote:
i prefer the one on the right :P

lol the squiggly one :) natural thought sparking one :D


Cool. Looking at it now, I want to make them even longer and squigglier!



zee
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16 Feb 2008, 4:19 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
zee wrote:
My idea is that the conscious mind only has so much energy it can expend at one time.


It would depend on the level of interest in the subject at hand. If I am interested I can work out solutions to physics problems involving new concepts or visualize a chemical reaction mechanism or whatever else. But without interest, it is difficult to even write a sentence.

I think interest level could be the limiting factor as to how much processing power is used.


Right you are, interest is the motivation for pursuing one line of thoughts over another. But assuming you have the interest, you can't concentrate on that and be concentrating on something different at the same time.



iamnotaparakeet
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16 Feb 2008, 11:13 am

zee wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
zee wrote:
My idea is that the conscious mind only has so much energy it can expend at one time.


It would depend on the level of interest in the subject at hand. If I am interested I can work out solutions to physics problems involving new concepts or visualize a chemical reaction mechanism or whatever else. But without interest, it is difficult to even write a sentence.

I think interest level could be the limiting factor as to how much processing power is used.


Right you are, interest is the motivation for pursuing one line of thoughts over another. But assuming you have the interest, you can't concentrate on that and be concentrating on something different at the same time.


Multitasking is difficult.



PLA
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23 Feb 2008, 8:50 am

I like the right one (lol - I mean the one on the right.), because the ego looks bridge-y, like a port - much like my own ego.
I haven't given it much thought, so no elaboration for you. :)


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zee
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24 Feb 2008, 12:19 am

PLA wrote:
I like the right one (lol - I mean the one on the right.), because the ego looks bridge-y, like a port - much like my own ego.
I haven't given it much thought, so no elaboration for you. :)

No, that's good, the bridge thing makes sense. Basically that ego is a series of ports, leading off into different directions, which is why it would be easy to "get lost in thought" if your mind was like that. :)



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24 Feb 2008, 12:58 am

Have you always had a low libido? There might be other causes at play. I know that depression and not getting enough sleep can also cause a lack of interest in sex. There's probably some more common causes but I'm not a doctor so I don't know.