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draelynn
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01 Apr 2011, 12:04 pm

Autism and Vaccines: a new scientific review

Vaccines have been investigated as a possible cause of autism since 1943?! Repeatedly?

This should get interesting...



Last edited by draelynn on 01 Apr 2011, 1:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

DeaconBlues
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01 Apr 2011, 1:10 pm

Ms. Ratajczak betrays a fundamental failure to comprehend teratogenetics. Unlike comic books, out here in the real world, you can't cause a living human being to mutate into a new form by injecting them with DNA. Sorry, everybody who was hoping to get superpowers from a spider bite, but DNA doesn't get "rewritten" that way. Any genetic change to sex cells can result in mutations in the following generation; however, it's fairly clear that this can't be a cause of autism, as if it were, one would expect to see a rate of much greater than 1% in ensuing generations.

There are a few substances that can cause substantive change to DNA in existing cells. We call those "carcinogens", and they cause cancer, not autism.

Ms. Ratajczak really needs to go review what has been learned about the nature of genetics since Watson and Crick first published...


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draelynn
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01 Apr 2011, 1:32 pm

I'm not sure we read the same article...



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01 Apr 2011, 4:32 pm

draelynn wrote:
I'm not sure we read the same article...


I saw the CBSNews link and thought, "I smell a Sharyl Attkisson article." Man, I am so good.

She should not even have a job. She is completely biased toward anti-vaccine ideas. Anything, I mean anything, that smells of anti-vaccine she will write about. She completely glosses over the negative part and focuses on the anti-vaccine part, sensationalizing the story. Just look at the first sentence and you can see a bias. Look at the second-to-last paragraph with the Galileo defense. I'm telling you, she should not have a job as a journalist. Complete crap. See the correlation versus causation post right below.


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draelynn
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01 Apr 2011, 5:14 pm

Technically, all news articles are biased in whatever direction the writer favors.

I was more taken by the once dedicated vaccine research doctor questioning vaccines and the staunch vaccine safety doctor surprised to learn that human DNA is present in vaccines. It did not state that the DNA in vaccines is 'mutating' healthy human cells. It suggested that the foreign DNA is causing an immunological response, thus swelling and tissue death in the brain.

The suggestion is that vaccines are causing enchephilitis and brain damage. I really wish everyone would take the autism label out of this issue because it is clear that vaccines are not causing a genetically based autism as we know it. The possible brain damage may, in some ways be mimicking autism causing autistic like symptoms. Cross wired brains and brain damage are two different pathologies even if they present similarly.



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01 Apr 2011, 5:17 pm

draelynn wrote:
Technically, all news articles are biased in whatever direction the writer favors.

I was more taken by the once dedicated vaccine research doctor questioning vaccines and the staunch vaccine safety doctor surprised to learn that human DNA is present in vaccines. It did not state that the DNA in vaccines is 'mutating' healthy human cells. It suggested that the foreign DNA is causing an immunological response, thus swelling and tissue death in the brain.

The suggestion is that vaccines are causing enchephilitis and brain damage. I really wish everyone would take the autism label out of this issue because it is clear that vaccines are not causing a genetically based autism as we know it. The possible brain damage may, in some ways be mimicking autism causing autistic like symptoms. Cross wired brains and brain damage are two different pathologies even if they present similarly.


Are you aware of the Hannah Poling case? This is exactly what happened.


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draelynn
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01 Apr 2011, 5:31 pm

HerrGrimm wrote:
draelynn wrote:
Technically, all news articles are biased in whatever direction the writer favors.

I was more taken by the once dedicated vaccine research doctor questioning vaccines and the staunch vaccine safety doctor surprised to learn that human DNA is present in vaccines. It did not state that the DNA in vaccines is 'mutating' healthy human cells. It suggested that the foreign DNA is causing an immunological response, thus swelling and tissue death in the brain.

The suggestion is that vaccines are causing enchephilitis and brain damage. I really wish everyone would take the autism label out of this issue because it is clear that vaccines are not causing a genetically based autism as we know it. The possible brain damage may, in some ways be mimicking autism causing autistic like symptoms. Cross wired brains and brain damage are two different pathologies even if they present similarly.


Are you aware of the Hannah Poling case? This is exactly what happened.


Why yes I am!

The line in the sand drawn on this issue is so derisive that it is missing the bigger picture. I guess I am just glad to see something, in print, with research by a respected vaccine insider making these claims and having them taken seriously enough by the CDC to investigate her research.

Someone needs to write an article that clearly states - Vaccines do injure but they are not causing autism. Until they can PROVE what vaccines are causing exactly, I'm afraid not much will change. People are just too blinded by the emotions on this issue. We can thank Jenny McCarthy for a good deal of that. Maybe we can get her to recant... or at least revise her position.

These families with 3,4,5 kids all on the spectrum - without family history of it - are just statistical impossibilites for true autism. But there is no doubt that they have something dramatic going on though. I think this issue hurts the truly autistic community by confusing where the true needs of both populations lie.



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01 Apr 2011, 5:38 pm

draelynn wrote:
The line in the sand drawn on this issue is so derisive that it is missing the bigger picture. I guess I am just glad to see something, in print, with research by a respected vaccine insider making these claims and having them taken seriously enough by the CDC to investigate her research.

Someone needs to write an article that clearly states - Vaccines do injure but they are not causing autism. Until they can PROVE what vaccines are causing exactly, I'm afraid not much will change. People are just too blinded by the emotions on this issue. We can thank Jenny McCarthy for a good deal of that. Maybe we can get her to recant... or at least revise her position.


The cognitive dissonance is too strong for McCarthy. Actually when they had Paul Offit on the Stephen Colbert show her publicist called and said NOT to mention her "because she is not part of the movement anymore" or some BS like that. No way.

Cognitive dissonance won't help matters. Anyone with any sort of reasonable mental function can tell you there's a chance it can injure. What I think we really need to do is drop the hammer and make people who don't vaccinate their kids to be more responsible, pay their own medical bills, and be liable for the pain and suffering of others. You can't force vaccination obviously in America. But it is technically involuntary manslaughter if someone dies if you know the consequences of what you are doing.


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01 Apr 2011, 6:13 pm

HerrGrimm wrote:
The cognitive dissonance is too strong for McCarthy. Actually when they had Paul Offit on the Stephen Colbert show her publicist called and said NOT to mention her "because she is not part of the movement anymore" or some BS like that. No way.

Cognitive dissonance won't help matters. Anyone with any sort of reasonable mental function can tell you there's a chance it can injure. What I think we really need to do is drop the hammer and make people who don't vaccinate their kids to be more responsible, pay their own medical bills, and be liable for the pain and suffering of others. You can't force vaccination obviously in America. But it is technically involuntary manslaughter if someone dies if you know the consequences of what you are doing.


There are safer ways to vaccinate. No one HAS to accept the supervaccines - 6,8,10 in one shot. That schedule can be broken down into small doses over longer periods. It is gentler on the immune system and still protects kids with the same efficiency. It's just a bit inconvenient to make more than one vaccination trip. Kids do need to be vaccinated - no doubt.

McCarthy is almost single handedly responsibly for this 'movement'. Lovely - my kid is cured so screw y'all now... I'm out! There is a word for that and it is less than polite.

Let's hope they can't force vaccines on people... there is talk of the flu vaccine being made mandatory.



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01 Apr 2011, 6:35 pm

draelynn wrote:
No one HAS to accept the supervaccines - 6,8,10 in one shot. That schedule can be broken down into small doses over longer periods. It is gentler on the immune system and still protects kids with the same efficiency. It's just a bit inconvenient to make more than one vaccination trip. Kids do need to be vaccinated - no doubt.

Let's hope they can't force vaccines on people... there is talk of the flu vaccine being made mandatory.


I am not aware of these supervaccines. I know Poling had 5 vaccines for 9 diseases in one visit. But you have to understand when someone says "smaller doses over longer periods" it reminds me of the anti-vaccine book by Bob Sears. I cannot have that happen.

There is a huge difference between MANDATORY and COMPULSORY. You cannot force someone to take a vaccine. That would be made so unconstitutional so fast in America it would not be funny.

EDIT: Really, the chance these vaccines can injure are really small. I just hope you do not fall for the Big Pharma conspiracy theories.

EDIT #2: I cannot double post but you seem concerned about thimerosal. There really is nothing to fear and I will explain after your response.


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01 Apr 2011, 9:37 pm

I know all the percentages of mercury... less than tuna... not the same as elemental mercury... I get all that. And I agree that there is not an immediate, identifiable impact of small doses of mercury. My concerns are with the slow insidious build up of toxins over the course of a lifetime. The compound effect of passing possibly minute genetic damages on to our offspring over the course of generations, not just from mercury but from a build of of multiple toxins. Mercury IS a toxin. We just don't know what effect low doses over long periods can do.

There is no proof. It's just a theory. We live in an increasingly toxic environment. I do not believe that it has no effect.

Have you ever explored where your water comes from? Or what is in it? There isn't an urban public water supply anywhere in the country without multiple medications suspended in it. Medications do not become inert after we take them... most of them pass through to the water supply and remain there, in the environment, indefinitely. They haven't determined the effective half life of chemical medications yet. Or the effect to cocktail of medications can have on the environment or on us.

We just do not know what we are doing to ourselves. And anyone who suggests that maybe we should take a look at theses things is branded a heretic. Just like people who say vaccines are causing harm are vilifed.

I had my daughter vaccinated slowly... not out of autism fears (surprise.surprise... I got an Aspie anyway:) ) but because I didn't want to overload her immune system. We vaccinate puppies and kittens with more forethought than our own children. I do not believe in taking a medication for every little thing. I want antibiotics and antivirals to actually work for us if we should ever need them. Most colds and flus can be treated at home. Antibiotics are reeking havoc on us and our environment. My daughter is fully vaccinated, it just took a few extra weeks. We just need to be smarter and more cautious before rushing every new thing to market and into the environment.



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01 Apr 2011, 9:52 pm

draelynn wrote:
I know all the percentages of mercury... less than tuna... not the same as elemental mercury... I get all that. And I agree that there is not an immediate, identifiable impact of small doses of mercury. My concerns are with the slow insidious build up of toxins over the course of a lifetime. The compound effect of passing possibly minute genetic damages on to our offspring over the course of generations, not just from mercury but from a build of of multiple toxins. Mercury IS a toxin. We just don't know what effect low doses over long periods can do.

There is no proof. It's just a theory. We live in an increasingly toxic environment. I do not believe that it has no effect.

Have you ever explored where your water comes from? Or what is in it? There isn't an urban public water supply anywhere in the country without multiple medications suspended in it. Medications do not become inert after we take them... most of them pass through to the water supply and remain there, in the environment, indefinitely. They haven't determined the effective half life of chemical medications yet. Or the effect to cocktail of medications can have on the environment or on us.

We just do not know what we are doing to ourselves. And anyone who suggests that maybe we should take a look at theses things is branded a heretic. Just like people who say vaccines are causing harm are vilifed.

I had my daughter vaccinated slowly... not out of autism fears (surprise.surprise... I got an Aspie anyway:) ) but because I didn't want to overload her immune system. We vaccinate puppies and kittens with more forethought than our own children. I do not believe in taking a medication for every little thing. I want antibiotics and antivirals to actually work for us if we should ever need them. Most colds and flus can be treated at home. Antibiotics are reeking havoc on us and our environment. My daughter is fully vaccinated, it just took a few extra weeks. We just need to be smarter and more cautious before rushing every new thing to market and into the environment.


Um...mercury is in the air you breathe, the soil and your food. There might be a massive amount of mercury in you right now. The "low dose over a long time" can be seen in the entire world population right now just by what they breathe in.

EDIT: That is why thimerosal was overblown. If a child was really susceptible to mercury, they would have autism before the vaccination because of the air and if they were breast-fed as well. No one agreed that it was ACUTE poisoning because of the terrible symptoms associated with it. It was more made to be chronic.

No, people who say vaccines are causing harm are vilified because for some reason they have a conflict of interest they never mentioned or have some financial interest in finding one.

Do you know how much fecal matter is everywhere? I do not think there is a single thing you touch or come into contact with in everyday life that has some bad stuff on it, especially fecal matter. The human body has an extremely strong immune system, even when you start as an infant.

My brother is a vet and he says that as long as the vaccine does not kill the animal it is OK. There is almost no real testing into them. The only requirement is really that it is not lethal.


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01 Apr 2011, 10:11 pm

That's the point... all kinds of toxins are everywhere and the levels are not lessening, they are ever growing. Will there be a toxic tipping point? Eventually, yes. No one knows where that point is though.

I'm talking homegrown anti-vaccine advocates - not the professional ones. The actual people trying to protect their kids. On one hand, I understand where they are coming from. on the other, it's only a matter of time before one of their kids dies from something preventable.

I'm not so much concerned with fecal matter in and of itself. Medication is our water supply is changing the biological course of life in river systems and in coastal ocean life. Not to mention that pregnant women and children are now exposed to low doses of, as many as 20 different medications every day. Do we KNOW what that will do - no. But maybe we should.

Having a strong immune system is exactly the point. Autoimmune disorders are on the rise. Why tempt an already highly efficient system into overdrive? I'm suggesting we let our immune systems do their thing and to stop thinking that we know better than it does. We need to work with it - not try to override it with drugs.

My puppies had a vaccination schedule designed to not overwhelm their immune system. Maybe I just had a different type of vet? I live close to the University of Pennsylvania - their school of vet medicine regulary runs trials into all sorts of veterinary medications including vaccines. Somebody is researching them but i have no idea how or if that information is disseminated to the profession.



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01 Apr 2011, 10:12 pm

draelynn wrote:
That's the point... all kinds of toxins are everywhere and the levels are not lessening, they are ever growing. Will there be a toxic tipping point? Eventually, yes. No one knows where that point is though.

I'm talking homegrown anti-vaccine advocates - not the professional ones. The actual people trying to protect their kids. On one hand, I understand where they are coming from. on the other, it's only a matter of time before one of their kids dies from something preventable.

I'm not so much concerned with fecal matter in and of itself. Medication is our water supply is changing the biological course of life in river systems and in coastal ocean life. Not to mention that pregnant women and children are now exposed to low doses of, as many as 20 different medications every day. Do we KNOW what that will do - no. But maybe we should.

Having a strong immune system is exactly the point. Autoimmune disorders are on the rise. Why tempt an already highly efficient system into overdrive? I'm suggesting we let our immune systems do their thing and to stop thinking that we know better than it does. We need to work with it - not try to override it with drugs.

My puppies had a vaccination schedule designed to not overwhelm their immune system. Maybe I just had a different type of vet? I live close to the University of Pennsylvania - their school of vet medicine regulary runs trials into all sorts of veterinary medications including vaccines. Somebody is researching them but i have no idea how or if that information is disseminated to the profession.


My brother goes to Penn Vet School. He told me himself.

EDIT: Can you explain or give an example of a supervaccine? Where do you get your information?


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01 Apr 2011, 10:24 pm

HerrGrimm wrote:
My brother goes to Penn Vet School. He told me himself.

EDIT: Can you explain or give an example of a supervaccine? Where do you get your information?


Give me time to dig up the vaccine links... it's been awhile. The last one my doctor offered me was 6-in-1 but that was 8 years ago. My links have gone lax with my lack of need for them. I have friend that is a new mom and she sends me links all the time. It'll take digging.

I'm no vet - I won't argue. I'm just on some mailing lists and I'm not a doctor...



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01 Apr 2011, 10:30 pm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/schedu ... ule-pr.pdf

Top of the list - the good old CDC schedule. The 12month vaccine recommendation - 10 vaccines in one visit. The CDC does not expressly recommend that all 10 are given at one time but many doctors just load them all up at once.