Vegetarianism and Harassment

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This is not meant to be a rant, exactly, but simply to point out a definite trend of what nearly amounts to prejudice.

I find it kind of funny and kind of sad that so many people can be personally offended if someone is a vegan or a vegetarian and immediately demand a convincing argument in favor of their food choices. ((I'm not a vegan, I am a vegetarian, but I can still speak from personal experience on the basic point I'm making.)) If I were to say "I never eat oatmeal" then I doubt it would get the same reaction as "I never eat meat."

If it were oatmeal the person would likely say some derivative of either commiseration, a defense of oatmeal as a healthy choice of food, a defense of oatmeal as "yummy" or a simply query as to why oatmeal was distasteful. The conversation would be allowed to end after one more round of responding more likely than not, as in, "yes, it's healthy but I eat _ instead" being sufficient for the first option, "I really don't like the taste/texture" being a good enough defense against the second or fourth option, and the third option requiring no defense. There is generally no offense taken to not choosing to eat oatmeal, or whatever you're choosing not to eat.

However when the conversation comes around to meat, if the person eats meat, the first question is "do you eat fish/do you eat chicken?" Then, "Why are you a vegetarian?" OR "It's not healthy to be a vegetarian" OR some kind of response which questions the "moral superiority" of vegetarianism- EVEN IF NO SUCH MORAL SUPERIORITY WAS MENTIONED. The topic will then drag on until the other person feels vindicated, not until it had been addressed. People who find out you do not eat meat will ask you every time they see you if you are taking supplements or have gotten enough protein, will flaunt hamburgers or whatever they're eating in front of you and say "MMMMMMMMM. Good" or try to give you a new reason why vegetarians are causing more harm than good in the world every time they see you.

I do not claim to be morally superior for being a vegetarian. I DO eat enough protein (although it's more convenient if not necessarily easier for me than a vegan as I do eat dairy products and eggs). I have my own reasons for not eating meat and I really should not need to justify them. Yet, people tend to be extremely offended on some basic level by the idea of not eating meat; not only will they argue but they generally want to "convert" me and would take it as a personal victory if I had a hamburger or something.

It feels a lot like harassment to me. My dad told a couple of people that I am a vegetarian the other day and they set in on me; I told him not to tell anyone else because of it. It's like I have to be "in the closet" about it. It just seems unfair.

i encounter the same thing. I've been vegetarian since I was 6. I don't try to convince other people to be vegetarian, I don't think it's for everyone...but for some reason people think they can attack my vegetarianism. What I really hate are those theoretical "if you were starving to death on a mountain top with no way of getting down and all that was with you was a cow, would you eat it" type questions. They have absolutely no relevance whatsoever to real life. I don't feel morally superior to anyone because i'm vegetarian, and I doubt most sane vegetarians do. I also hate it when people try to covince me to have "just a bite...it's good!" because to me, it's not...I've been vegetarian for so long that the thought of eating meat, and sometimes the smell of it makes me feel sick. I don't take much care for my health, but I do get enough protein, and the hardcore meat eaters who ask me if I get enough protein I ask "do you get enough fiber/vitamin A/other nonmeat neccessary dietary thing I know they don't bother to keep track of/get enough of(darn...now where do I put the other " ?) Anyways, usually that shuts them up, LOL!!

How long have you been vegetarian? No, really, I don't mean to start an argument - I'm just curious, 'cause it sounds like you are just noticing this phenomena . . .
If you want any recipes or book ideas PM me, by the way . . .

I've been vegetarian 12 years and vegan (mostly - I eat feta and blu echeese occassionally) for two years and I've noticed exactly the same thing . . . here are my two favorite examples . . .
1) My family is not very close (I'm the only one diagnosed autistic, but I'd be willing to bet both of my parents have it, too) - also, my Dad is 'Red Meat Man', which makes it a pain the butt to cook for the two of us - so for Thanksgiving (when I still went home for Thansgiving) we went to Luby's - one time when we did this the guy in front of me noticed that I was not getting turkey and I didn't think anything about it and said 'I'm vegan' and he went off about Linda McCartney of all things and how she was vegetarian and died from breast cancer anyway and how animals don't have souls . . . note that I said NOTHING - I wasn't wearing a PETA tshirt (I hate PETA) or anything like that . . . he started it . . .

2) I was at a flea market in the middle of East Texas where vegans are as mythical as unicorns and I wanted something to eat - so I noticed that there was a place that had baked potatos at this flea market - which, of course, came with sour cream, bacon bits, and butter - turns out the butter is margerine so that is ok, but when I told them the only other thing I wanted was black pepper they asked why - again, I said nothing more than 'I'm a vegan' and promotly was told that God commands us to eat meat (which is faciniting to me because my veganism and Christianity are entwined in my mind) . . . again, I didn't start it . . .

3) (Ok - this one is just funny) my mother, inexplicably, says that I can't be a vegan and also 'torture myself' (it is not torture) with tattoos and piercings - apparently forgetting that I give concent and way to much money to have my modifications done . . .
Also, she tells me that I can eat fish because fish eat fish - fish also eat license plates (well, tiger sharks do) so I guess I should eat them, too . . .

I've heard different explanations of this phenomona #1) that people who get all huffy with you about vegetarianism feel guilty - the idea being that they have actually thought about the issue and have rejected it for some reason and have to defend that - and you, as a vegetarian, make it hard for them to use whatever excuse they have come up with or #2) (and I think this is more likely, really) that people are bothered by anything different and defend against that . . .

You might really enjoy Carol Adams's book 'Living Among Meat Eaters' - she presents some really good ways to deal with these sorts of issues . . .
For me, everyone knows I'm a vegan and that is fine with them - I don't get bent out of shape when they talk about eating meat (though I REALLY have to bite my tongue around people who hunt) and, in fact, can really join in and outdo them since I've lived all over the world and ate strange things before I was a vegan (don't tell my new guiena pig, Callahan, that her species is a meat animal in Peru, where I lived for a while ) - I think that being able to 'join in' like that leads to the question 'Why, then, did you become vegan?' and that lets me share my point of view on the whole thing . . .

Oh - yeah, I forgot about the 'starving on a moutian top' thing - that is a good one, too - oh, and the 'cavemen ate meat' . . .

That is funny that you would mention not wanting to eat meat anymore - we were talking on one of the vegetarian groups I belong to about how they are starting to get the technology to 'grow' meat in a lab from one or two animal cells, thus, technically, eliminating my reason for going vegan (animal welfare) and I thought 'Wow! I could eat a steak again if they get really good at that!' and then I thought 'Why would I want to eat a steak again?! Yuck!'
I had never really thought that I would lose my taste for animal products if they ever were free of animal welfare issues, but it appears that I have . . .

I know what you mean. I am currently eating meat due to the convenience. But for a few years I was vegeterian, and found that I generally felt healthier.
I think it is something a lot of people can't imagine doing. They just love meat too much. And of course why do you imagine that you are any different than them ? That is preposterous.
A friend of mine had some bad tofu once and it turned him off to it.
So we were at a thai place and the tofu was really good. I thought he should try it. He only agree on the condition that I eat a peice of chicken. OK so I'll eat a peice of chicken.
And of course when I started eating meat again, I had some explaining to do. Had I abandoned my sense of moral superiority? What is the deal?
It is amazing how much the average joe fears "different"

Huh? Why the heck did they think what you ate was any of their business? Family is one thing but strangers getting all up in yours about your diet and religion? That's about the rudest thing I've ever heard of someone doing and they better be glad it wasn't me they were harassing as I would've told them flat out, "My morality isn't your concern and I'm a grown woman who can make an informed decision on what I want to eat so butt out!"........and that's the clean version.

Sometimes, you have to shove these idiots out of your space when they cross your personal boundaries or they'll keep doing it because they think it's god-given right to tell you what to do, especially if you're a woman.

tell me about it...

anyway... i became a veggie in 1980. i was 18 everyone thought it was a "fad" and i'd get over it. in those days, it was far less common than it is now. i've always enjoyed being "different", so it didn't bother me when people went on about it.

with any issue like this, people tend to attack difference, as animallover said. some of them might actually be concerned that you aren't getting everything you need in the way of nutrition. if they're attacking you on the moral issue, then they quite possibly think it IS a moral issue and attcking your veggie-ness is their defence against their own conscience (i'm not saying that veggies HAVE the moral high ground here, by the way).

is it an issue about being treated as someone who's entitled to make her own decisions, serissa? now THAT would drive me potty!

and animallover - should we start the "co-morbid conditions with vegetarianism" thread? tattoos, piercings...? lol

i can't say i've ever experienced the conflict over my vegetarianism that serissa has. people tease by saying things like "you don't know what you're missing", etc, but i DO know what i'm missing because my mother used to include meat in the meals she cooked for me as a kid and i have to say that imitation meat (like quorn) is much tastier than real meat. so, it is actually the stubborn carnivores who are missing out!
but i don't care what meat-eaters say about me- i give as good as i get! if someone criticizes me for being vegetarian i respond by saying things like "are you enjoying eating that dead cow?"! or just simply making clucking noises if they are eating chicken or making squealling noices if they are eating pork. yes, i can be FAR more annoying than even the most militant meat-eaters!
has anyone else noticed how butchers, and similar, like to advertise their products with pictures of cute, fluffy, little cartoon farm-yard animals? sick!

Actually i have tasted immitation meats like quorn etc and i still think you cant beat the real thing so i do know what im not missing and that's veggie burgers etc.

I eat what I want, when I want, I won't make a judgement to others for doing the same. If you don't want to eat meat, or oatmeal, that's your decision, and I support your right to make that decision.

GA

To the first, not really, it's just bizarre that so many people seem OFFENDED by a choice to abstain from a certain type of food. ((To be fair I am the pot calling the kettle black; I despise Atkins, but it's not because of the animals it kills. It's because of the people it kills, and the fact that the people it doesn't kill will rant at you about carbs if you eat an apple, or god forbid, bread. I feel largely the same way actually about anybody who tells me what to eat and what not to eat including people who tout the "poor animals" thing with all seriousness to it. And while I will criticize Atkins to non-Atkinsers, I don't pick fights with people ON it, which would be pointless. I just silently hope they fall off the wagon.))

And to the second I have 11 piercings in each ear and a nose stud. I do not plan on getting any more piercings and do not have or want tattoos, but.... yeah. Mucho de piercingso.



I'm not just noticing it; I just saw a comment on another thread and it reminded me of this. I've been a vegetarian for about a year and a half now. Basically I gave up meat for lent and then decided I didn't want to start again. It was actually kind of arbitrary.



Hey, if I were starving on a a mountain, I'd eat my FRIENDS if I had to. It doesn't mean I actually plan to.



This is true and I admit it; however if you go long enough without meat you kind of forget what it used to taste like and veggieburgers are an accpetable alternative due to the fact that you've forgotten that meat tastes better. ((This is not to try to convert you, but to say it did stop bothering me after awhile.))



Bless you.

Ok I just want to present the other side of the story. I am not a vegitarian and I have no issues with those that are or that are vegan. However, I reside in a highly vegitarian/vegan area and I actually get harrassed for my choice to not be one. I do have to say that I have become a little fearful of eating meat in public because I am sick of having to argue my right to do so.

Just my experiance and I truly believe that we should all just let everyone else make their own choices. However, I always seem to be on the being harrassed end because most of my belives and values are contraty to the society I work in and many times I have to just keep my mouth shut or be abused.

Y

Ironcially, in your case, I feel that eating a steak in front of the vegetarians and vegans around you would be utterly justified.

Been there, done that.

People get really defensive about eating meat, I'm not sure exactly why. They also seem to assume that every vegetarian is a raving environmentalist Earth First! fanatic who wants to permanently wrest the animal flesh out of every American's mouth.

I think that the best course of action for you woudl be to mention the subject as little as possible unless someone else confronts you with it. If they get hostile or confrontational, you could respond simply with: "It's just a personal choice I've made regarding my diet, and I don't care to really discuss it."

There is an element of superiority and self righteousness that tends to go along with vegetarianism...and I was that way myself. I think people get touchy about it in part for that reason. Some areas of the country (U.S.) are much more flammable on this topic than others. If you live in Texas, try not to mention it at all!! !!

I get picked on for prefering to eat free range chickens and free range eggs! Appearently those people haven't seen what an industrial chicken farm looks like, and how it differs from a free range farm. Or the fact that I was one of the few meat eaters that wasn't dirrectly affected to boycott an egg farm for environmentally hazardous farming practices, before they started poluting the irrigation systems for nearby small farms, and it wasn't just nearby residents "exagerated" complaints, because the small farms commission got every small farmer in the state to boycotte the company, and encouraging their buyers to do the same. (The eggs of the brand wouldn't sell at 56 cents for a dozen after that point. That's dirt cheap, if you didn't know.)

For a few years the memory of my cousin, a militant vegan who wouldn't spring for you at lunch if you were buying any meat, haunted me every time I had to tell someone I was a vegetarian. She wouldn't even get into a car if the seats were made of leather, and would preach at anyone who disagreed with her about animal rights and so on.

I stopped eating meat six years ago and stayed with that for over a year, then ate meat for a year, then stopped for another three, then ate meat again for most of this year, and now I'm back to not eating it again. I've stopped using the label "vegetarian" because it doesn't really apply to me anymore. I do not think there is anything wrong with eating other creatures; it is unfortunate but necessary to many of us for survival. As for me, I just go with whatever I feel like at the time.

I think animallover is right that many meat eaters feel guilty about eating meat, and that is why so many of them can be so rude to vegetarians, because they haven't come to terms themselves with the fact that they are eating what once were living, breathing, petting zoo animals. Also, though, I think there really are quite a few people around like my cousin, who get in people's faces about their eating habits and are generally pooheads.