Martial arts?

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Jared_Guinther
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17 Jan 2011, 3:19 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Watching the trends though its been interesting to see how things fluctuate.

What I also like about Krav Maga that I never learned in other fighting systems is attacking and defending simultaneously. Like the 360 degree block for example(the block that defends all outside attacks), along with a punch or palm strike to the face at the same time. Krav Maga in general wouldn't so much work in competition fighting(MMA, tournaments, etc.) as it is taught to defend yourself from somebody who is trying to kill you or mug you.

I do agree with on how martial art systems fluctuate over the years, but I consider that an evolutionary factor more than it would be a trend in the martial art world. However, it is good to know martial art history and roots prior to the present.

Jared_Guinther
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17 Jan 2011, 3:36 pm

MrLoony wrote:

Martial arts are practical... in most cases.

Sport martial arts aren't, really. In Judo, for example, a lot of the techniques wouldn't work against anyone who's trained in a practical martial art. They'd be able to counter them rather easily. But with two fighters only allowed to use Judo techniques, those techniques are advantageous.

Kung fus are practical, but only if you're properly trained. The problem tends to be more along the lines of a lack of training than a lack of practicality.

Now, an interesting argument that's persisted through the ages is this: Which style is best?

Well, that's the wrong question. Here's why: These are the three most important things for a fighter, in order from most important to least important:

1. Strength (meaning physical attributes, such as strength, speed, and agility)
2. Courage (meaning fighting spirit)
3. Technique (the fighting style)

And the third one is far down there. As long as the style that you use can counter the style your opponent is using (and, as long as it's not a sport martial art, it should be able to), then the only things that are really important are the first and the second.

I agree 100% with this. This is also what is taught in the Krav Maga system from my experience with it. Not, that I'm putting down "fighting style" as art forms are excellent for the movies.

MrLoony
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17 Jan 2011, 4:43 pm

Jared_Guinther wrote:

Krav Maga in general wouldn't so much work in competition fighting(MMA, tournaments, etc.) as it is taught to defend yourself from somebody who is trying to kill you or mug you.

I was actually pointing out a while back that, one of the reasons why Tai Chi Chuan doesn't work in MMA is because certain techniques (such as pulling your opponent to the ground by their neck) is actually against the rules of MMA.

I think this is why Muay Thai is so popular in MMA: The rules of Muay Thai fit in nicely with MMA rules. But that doesn't make it a good fighting style (or, rather, a fighting style at all, since the rules disallow certain moves, and so counters to those moves are not taught). MMA fighters are just developing a new sport martial art, really.

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Mindslave
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18 Jan 2011, 4:57 pm

I trained in Roshambo once. I got a brown belt...and was kicked right below there.

rabbitears
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23 Jan 2011, 6:47 am

I used to do a lot of Kobudo, and Judo as a kid.

Dantac
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24 Jan 2011, 8:25 pm

Started with Hap-Ki-Do and moved on to Judo.

Judo is in my opinion the best of them for real world application in self-defense.

"1. Strength (meaning physical attributes, such as strength, speed, and agility)
2. Courage (meaning fighting spirit)
3. Technique (the fighting style) "

I would say the order is

1. Courage (meaning fighting spirit)
2. Technique (the fighting style) "
3. Strength (meaning physical attributes, such as strength, speed, and agility)

If you dont have the guts to see a fight through 2 and 3 are useless. You can be the fastest, strongest, most agile person in the world but if the other guy knows how to defeat your fighting technique then physical attributes dont help much. Technique is the key to it. Once you realize that when you have to fight in self-defense (not in a silly tournament match) you will be up against someone who has no idea what your technique is nor you what technique he uses (if any). In that situation its courage, skill and luck that determine the outcome.

just_ben
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25 Jan 2011, 7:06 am

Jared_Guinther wrote:

I train in Krav Maga, an Israeli hand-to-hand combat system. It's not a traditional system, unlike Kung Fu, traditional Karate, aikido, etc. It has no Katas, no philosophical rituals, and technically, it's not a "martial art." It's a practical self-defense method that's simple, fast, and most importantly, effective! It's all based on gross motor skill as opposed to complex motor skill. I've been training in it for a year now and it's the system that I'm going to stick with.

I've been learning it for about 3/4 months, now. Does it strike you as being a singularly 'unforgiving' form of defense? The shock-and-awe of the martial arts world.

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BigE
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25 Jan 2011, 4:27 pm

I have a black belt in Kung Fu San Soo, which is very similar to Krav Maga, in that it has no kata and is based on simple effective strikes to vulnerable areas and movement.

In college I took up Judo and Muay Thai. I also did quite a bit of Jiu-Jitsu and yang style Tai Chi.

In my opinion, in a real fight, the things I learned from Muay Thai and Judo are by far the most effective.

monsterland
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25 Jan 2011, 6:35 pm

In my (very) limited experience with Judo, it seems to be careless about keeping the practitioner away from a concealed knife.

In general, I don't approach real-life self-defense as a fight (as in, an exchange of attacks resulting in a complete domination/submission of an opponent).

No, I approach it as a situation where I need to maximize my chances of getting out alive, even if I am in far worse physical shape than the assailant.

In that sense, I find Jeet Kune Do concepts of "immediately entering past any attack" to blend nicely with more formalized approach to similar concepts in Aikido. Enter in like lightning, stun and run away.

mechanicalgirl39
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26 Jan 2011, 12:35 pm

Just started learning judo, really enjoying it.

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BigE
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27 Jan 2011, 3:05 am

monsterland wrote:

Nothing's going to keep you away from a knife except a gun. If you have a confrontation with an armed person with bad intentions, you're going to get cut. Your only options really are 1. Run or 2. Attack first, relentlessly and with so much force that the other person doesn't have a chance to pull a blade on you....which I think is similar to the point you made.

My Muay Thai teacher was also a JKD practitioner, although all the street fight stories he shared involved thai kicking attackers in the leg so hard they couldn't fight any longer.

MrLoony
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27 Jan 2011, 3:34 am

BigE wrote:

If you have a confrontation with an armed person with bad intentions, you're going to get cut. Your only options really are 1. Run or 2. Attack first, relentlessly and with so much force that the other person doesn't have a chance to pull a blade on you....which I think is similar to the point you made.

3. Move back when he tries to stab you and dislocate his elbow
4. Knock his arm away when he tries to stab you, grab his neck (taking care to trap his arm), and pull him to the ground
5. Any number of techniques that also work with striking blows and are taught with a martial art that doesn't depend on both fighters getting injured

Getting hit is Not A Good Thing, even if it's your arm (blocking). It's simple physics. And simple logic, when applied to weapons. You don't block a stab or a slash. You deflect it (preferably at the arm, though if you can hit the flat of the blade or the guard, that's much better than hitting the edge). If the martial art focuses on deflection rather than blocking, a knife isn't as big of a deal (especially since the extra weight slows the person down somewhat, making deflection easier).

Basic stuff for certain martial arts, especially ones that build on unarmed combat into armed combat (since the rules of Muay Thai or Judo prevent weapons, Muay Thai and Judo practitioners aren't trained to fight against weapons effectively).

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Dantac
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28 Jan 2011, 3:19 pm

Regardless if you own a weapon, you should learn to defend yourself with your bare hands.

Just in case people don't get the message.

BigE
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29 Jan 2011, 4:28 am

MrLoony wrote:

BigE wrote:

You ever try that against resisting opponents as opposed to willing practice buddies?

I take it you haven't had the displeasure of having to test your skills against people trying to hurt you.

MrLoony
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29 Jan 2011, 5:59 am

BigE, Have you ever heard of the golden moment of attack? This is why countering moves are so effective when executed properly. You do it in between when he is attacking and when he's capable of resisting. The golden moment of attack lasts for less than a second. Those that practice pushing hands (tui shou), a Tai Chi Chuan combat training method, learn to be able to move at the exact moment. It's not about whether a person will resist or not, it's about whether they CAN resist. This is also something that the weight of the knife helps with. The golden moment of attack is slightly longer when weight is added to the end of the arm.

Edit: Found this video about pushing hands. To the average observer, it might seem pretty mundane for the most part, but those that have trained in pushing hands or have advanced knowledge of the subject will see the intricacies in the video (Edit3: Actually, this video is better for the casual observer, by the way: They only do pushing hands for about three minutes. Edit2 removed because it was about the original video):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBGqrT8sTVk[/youtube]

Edit4: By the way, if you ever get the chance to have the golden moment of attack demonstrated on you by a Tai Chi Chuan master, I suggest you take it. It's an extraordinary thing to watch and to realize what just happened.

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Dantac
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29 Jan 2011, 9:14 am

looks like foreplay :twisted:

While I know its different.. the toss looks very similar to some Judo techniques... catching the moment when the other person's inertia and balance are compromised.

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