Couple of Questions About Working Out...

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The_Sleeper
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13 Feb 2012, 8:38 pm

OneStepBeyond wrote:
1000Knives wrote:
OneStepBeyond wrote:
which is best :?


Whatever you want, really. One thing is, more reps will generally build more muscle, so if you don't care about strength, but just want more muscle growth, then more reps is better. As far as 20vs25 reps per set, at that level, it's more like you're splitting hairs. People have all kinds of ideas of what reps per set works best, it sorta comes down to what works best for you and gives you the results you want. Many many books have been written on the subject, and there's not really much consensus.

Nobody's found some "master plan" regarding this, and a random magic number of reps and sets that'll be perfect for everyone's goals. So yeah, basically imagine a formula of sorts, if it were an algebra problem, you have more reps=more endurance, then more reps=more muscle mass, but then you have the variable of weight lifted per rep. The endurance too is influenced by the strength, too, as obviously having more strength will make your body use less energy. You can't expect to get stronger and get more muscle mass by lifting your max one time and just going home, but at the same time, you can't expect to get stronger and gain more muscle mass by lifting like 1% of your max 100 reps either. So somewhere in the middle, they meet, and usually for strength, less reps with more weight, and then for mass alone, you use less weight, and more reps. There's also the equation of muscle mass and strength, too, obviously more muscle mass will equal more strength usually, but it's not an assuredness of strength either. For example, the Chinese record setting female Olympic weightlifters in the 48KG class can snatch and clean and jerk about double what I can, and they weigh half as much as me, and are girls no less. They're certainly stronger by a large margin, but I still have more muscle mass, but at the same time, the people in the higher weight classes in the Olympics obviously can lift more than the people of the lower weight class. So sorry there's not really a straight yes or no answer to your question, as first off, I don't know what you want, and second off, people's bodies all work and respond differently to a point. But, food for thought. If you're really serious for specific routines, you'd have to at least look at routines people post up and get some influence from them, even if you don't use them outright.

That said, generally the consensus of the closest thing to a "master plan" for reps is 5x5 programs, it's usually best balance of strength and muscle mass gained. But, there's no like, real scientific analysis regarding it all, as people's bodies are just different, people's goals are different, etc.

8O i never knew this was all so complicated. thanks for the help



Sorry, i saw you ask earlier and meant to post a link, i was interested in the same question that you asked a few months back and i added this to my ever growing list of bookmarks. I found it explained the whole thing quite nicely. Personally i'd go for dense muscles, i.e. muscle earned and useful rather than muscle for show. Are you becoming a body builder?
http://www.ehow.com/how_5692449_build-d ... scles.html



OneStepBeyond
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13 Feb 2012, 8:43 pm

ah that's helpful thanks, i don't want big muscles D: and i'm definitely not becoming a bodybuilder lol. just wanted to get a bit fitter and wondered what was more effective



The_Sleeper
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13 Feb 2012, 9:03 pm

I think i'm a little further along but i've been where you are. I've been playing around with getting fit for a long time but i've never quite ever been able to make exercise a permanent part of my life. Running could be perfect but i'm just so useless at it +it's so embarrassing running along the side of the road. The impact thing kinda bothers me too, i've known people whove been into heavy exercise for years start to have joint problems as they get older. The gym is way too boring to keep up for long. I like the idea of a 1on1 type squash/ tennis type sport but i would never have anyone that wanted to go. Swimming is probably where i'll end up, I've always loved water and i hear you can get underwater headphones and music players, that would be ideal.



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14 Feb 2012, 12:12 pm

snapcap wrote:
At the point you are walking 4 hours a day, I'd say that is pretty exetreme. You need to start running. Don't you miss your life?


If I could, I would, but I have *zero* muscle. The last time I tried involved getting slammed by the treadmill into a wall a la FailBlog Hall of Fame.
If by "life" you mean going to school and coming back home, that hasn't been affected.


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Last edited by ValentineWiggin on 14 Feb 2012, 12:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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14 Feb 2012, 12:15 pm

The_Sleeper wrote:
I think i'm a little further along but i've been where you are. I've been playing around with getting fit for a long time but i've never quite ever been able to make exercise a permanent part of my life. Running could be perfect but i'm just so useless at it +it's so embarrassing running along the side of the road. The impact thing kinda bothers me too, i've known people whove been into heavy exercise for years start to have joint problems as they get older. The gym is way too boring to keep up for long. I like the idea of a 1on1 type squash/ tennis type sport but i would never have anyone that wanted to go. Swimming is probably where i'll end up, I've always loved water and i hear you can get underwater headphones and music players, that would be ideal.


My knees do hurt a lot. Since I've been going four hours a day, the right one especially hurts all the time, and I have some nasty blisters.

It is pretty boring/monotonous. I really enjoyed dance back in the day (five years ago) but the entire purpose for me is to try to eat every day (the bi-monthly binge aside, I don't eat at all because I gain so easily) and then work it off in the gym, because the treadmills show a calorie count (which, even if it isn't accurate, I'd think it gives a ballpark, certainly more than just doing something random, assuming it burns off what little I might dare to eat, and then ballooning up like no one's business).

I also don't have a place to do it in- like in a class or something. Money is an issue. I pay $10 for a gym membership with equipment vs. a place like the Y with dance classes and such, it was around $54 a month (if I remember correctly).

I love, love, love to swim as well!


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snapcap
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14 Feb 2012, 12:44 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
snapcap wrote:
At the point you are walking 4 hours a day, I'd say that is pretty exetreme. You need to start running. Don't you miss your life?


If I could, I would, but I have *zero* muscle. The last time I tried involved getting slammed by the treadmill into a wall a la FailBlog Hall of Fame.
If by "life" you mean going to school and coming back home, that hasn't been affected.


You can run for a minute and rest for a minute, or however long you need. When resting, keep walking, and concentrate on softening the breaths. You don't even have to go full speed or anything.

Hey, if you can cut down your exercising down to 20mins a day, think of all the time you can spend on here!



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14 Feb 2012, 3:12 pm

ValentineWiggin, this is what I'm trying to say, this is where weights can come in handy. Doing squats with reasonable amount of weight will mess up your joints less than 4 hours of walking on a treadmill everyday, and build muscle mass and make you stronger for doing things like walking/running. It won't help cardio much, so you still need to do some cardio, but walking on a treadmill 4 hours a day isn't an efficient way to build muscle mass. Also, there comes a point where too much cardio will eat your muscle mass off, just look at an endurance runner vs a sprinter.
Image

You must have much more patience than I, I'd shoot myself if I had to walk on a treadmill for 4 hours a day.

But yeah, if you want muscle, you should either do weights or do bodyweight exercises of some sort. I know, girls don't do weights, blah blah blah, but at the point of doing 4 hours on a treadmill, you probably should look into it, at the very least "toning" exercises, even if you don't go full out. Resistance is the key to getting more power, though, up resistance, more power when there's less resistance applied, and yeah. Most sprinters like that do train with weights. Even without weights, if you're deadset against them, look at bodyweight exercises of some sort, gymnasts for the most part do all bodyweight exercises, and they're stupid strong.

If you want fun cardio, will they let you boxjump? Boxjumping is obvious cardio, and it's actually fun. Just jump on top of stuff, or over stuff, repeat and jump higher each time you do it, hopefully. Wonderful exercise, and much more fun than a treadmill.



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14 Feb 2012, 9:28 pm

I can't really comment on the calories being burned. I'm used to doing HIIT to lose weight fast, and all I know is that I'm working hard each time, and buring enough calories to either lose weight or maintain current weight and athleticism.

Swimming is great for losing weight, and getting fit. It doesn't damage the joints like running or walking long periods of time either. If you can't run you could also try cycling on an exercise bike.. It is also easier on the legs/knees than running. It can even help your knees if they are hurting a bit by getting some blood flow into them and loosening them up. Four hours of walking seems like overkill. You could be burning muscle with the fat. You could even be overtraining yourself, especially at an incline. Not sure if it has been mentioned here but walking at an incline can increase muscle mass in the legs. It says in my treadmill booklet that walking on an incline can cause an increase in mass and I have experienced it myself while running. I agree with 1000knives. It is probably a good idea to get involved with weights of some kind. Bodyweight exercises are good. Start really low and work your way up. Make sure you have proper technique as well.


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14 Feb 2012, 11:03 pm

For what it's worth, here's my non-expert opinion:

Swimming is great exercise. I have a rather involved program, designed to do a number of things for me( control mood, combat fibromyalgia pain, etc.), and swimming is a seasonal exercise that works the whole body without so much risk of damage as some other exercises.

If you exercise for at least 40 minutes, you increase what's called your resting metabolic rate for a period of time after you're done. That means you're burning more calories for a while, even though you're doing nothing, than you were doing nothing before you exercised. But anything that causes you injury is counterproductive and will set you back in the end. If you're making your knees hurt, something is wrong. Back it off, figure out what you need(check your shoes, for example), and return to exercise at a more reasonable rate.

Muscle takes more calories to support than fat, so strengthening muscles helps control weight. Aerobic + strength training + smart stretching choices will help you accomplish your goal. If you do aerobic without strength training or strength training without aerobic, you will always struggle more to control your weight.

That being said, the most important thing any person can do for their health is not to worry about weight; it's to go from being sedentary to lightly active. Read Ultimate Fitness: The Quest for Truth about Health and Exercise, by Gina Kolata. It's an eye opener.

High weights and low reps vs. low weights and high reps? I do both. They work different muscle fibers. My carefully self-designed plan involves a schedule of working different muscle groups and kinds of muscle fiber on different days. For strength training, pushing exercises are on Mondays and Thursdays. Pulling are on Tuesdays and Fridays. Heavy weights and low reps are at the beginning of the week. Light weights and high reps are at the end. I rest Wednesdays and weekends. I also work out for three weeks and rest for one, changing my focus exercises each month on a three month schedule. The third week of each month is a mixed one, combining exercises from each month, but doing fewer of each so that I don't overwork myself. The body can need up to a week of recovery time from a hard workout. By shifting my activities, I can work my body in one way while resting it in another. It's very efficient, and I don't suffer injury. My recovery is really quite good, I think. I work my abs twice as hard as the rest of my body. I also make sure to work my lower back, as this is normally a hard area to reach that then needs special, careful attention. Aerobic varies for me between longer, more relaxed pace and shorter, more intense activity, occurring on days when I feel up to it. So, for example, some days I run. Some days I walk the dog and go anywhere from the same distance to twice as far. (If you like inclines, look into hiking. The scenery is a lot nicer than the same old wall all the time.)

In addition to the regular rotation, there are seasonal exercises, some of which have practical, necessary applications, and some of which are just what i want at a given time of year. They can include things such as swimming, push mowing, and snow shoveling in the driveway.

If I have a fibromyalgia crash or something gets in the way of working out, well, then i don't work out. I don't have to stress about it, except to the extent that I hate having my routine interrupted. But I've been at this a few years, now. If I miss some, I can feel the difference, but i can also get back to where I was without too much trouble. Because of the fibromyalgia, my workout has to be carefully done, and I may not be able to do much else with my day on a day when I've worked out. But it beats lethargy, which comes from doing nothing at all. (I can thank liquid B12 for my ability to do any of this in the first place.)

I eat healthy foods and drink enough water. I don't diet. Dieting slows your metabolism, because your body is trying to protect you from starvation. That's why dieters regain the weight they lost plus some when they quit their diets. And quit they do, because you really can't do something that unreasonable and harmful to yourself forever.

Some of this will sound familiar to those who've tried programs such as P90X. But my reasons for things, as well as my specific exercises, are different. I personally believe "muscle confusion" is a misnomer. If your muscles were confused, your body wouldn't function very well. Yes, your body adapts. But that's why you get stronger. Your muscles heal while you rest, and that's when muscle is built, not during the exercise itself. In healing, your muscles build back stronger, in response to the stress of the workout. Continuing to challenge your body by changing what you do increases the stress your body can take and varies which support and stabilizing muscles you reach, and this prevents injury by both incorporating rest and broadening your areas of strength. It's also more interesting mentally, and I can't say enough about not getting bored during a workout.

Let me say this again, because it may be the most important thing you get out of a post I must apologize for making so long: Rest is vital. You must tailor (or have someone competent and knowledgeable tailor for you) a program that incorporates both diversity and proper rest. Otherwise, you'll just be punishing yourself for not having the body you think you should. Forget the scale. Focus on fitness and nutrition. If your clothes don't quite fit because you've built muscle, get some clothes that will be comfortable for your new, healthier body. You don't have to spend a lot if you like Goodwill and such.

I don't really like exercising. My fibromyalgia makes it so I feel anything from merely uncomfortable to sick when I do it. But I like having exercised. I like the results. If you do it right, I think you will, too. Just be kind to yourself, so you don't derail your own efforts.

Good luck!


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19 Feb 2012, 4:36 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:
My knees do hurt a lot. Since I've been going four hours a day, the right one especially hurts all the time, and I have some nasty blisters.


Please stop that walking now, before you develop real long term injury in your knee joints. These things do not heal well. If they didn't hurt before you started walking and they are going worse now then it's critical to stop that.

Do something else, try the rowing machine or find a way to afford swimming, just get off from the hurting knees. Running probably is not good right now. And 4 hours of any monotonous activity is too much for contemporary humans joints (or possible only with long term gradual increase).

You really should find more diverse things to do for your fitness and health. You seem a bit too obsessed. You could divide these four hours for many good things. Spend 2 hours for cooking and preparing several healthy meals - so that you could eat just right (5-6 times a day, no more than 3 hours inbetween, amounts that have nutritients and calories counted). Spend not much more than 1 hour working out, do stength exercises two or three times a week and cardio the rest of the days. And do some research about strength exercises and nutrition just to keep you occupied and motivated and to aquire wide and balanced knowledge.

If you feel you are letting your effort go to waiste if you shrink that four hours then try to incorporate some shorter exercising into your day at different time(s) - mainly for the residual calorie burning that you mentioned. Try for example this kind of exercises: http://www.bodyrock.tv/www.bodyrock.tv. Don't be discouraged if you can't do much with the intervals they use. I can't keep up with this intensity either, not even close, though I'm on the lower end of normal BMI. But the exercises are nicely diverse and getting heart rate up without the interval timer ruling is equally good for you.

Just please don't hurt yourself and spoil your goals with some injury.