What do you think about MMA?

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Not to change the subject a little bit, my dad was just watching Henderson vs. Shogun on UFC and I decided to watch a bit of the first two rounds to see what its looking like these days. I have to admit - I didn't 'get' it at all. The announcers kept saying over and over '5 round match' '5 round match', WTF is that? It seemed like Henderson lit into the other guy, opened his eye brow, but after that they kept redistancing, closing it, but it just looked aweful and it got real noticeable when Henderson got a throw on the other guy and simply walked past it. By round two they just looked bored.

Sincerely, I really feel aweful for you guys if this is what media is doing to it. If I'm watching two fighters who are supposed to be doing full contact let off a few punches, get a few cheers, go back to the other corner of the ring for tea and cigars while reading the newspaper for another 30 seconds before taking another 5 second break from that for a blitz - that's not fighting, its just digging a ditch to drop the proverbial bar into just so certain fans don't get pissed that the fight didn't last long enough.

Really, my sincere condolences on that.

MMA RULES

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here, but I'll try to compute it the best I can.

I believe somewhat recently, UFC began making main events 5 round fights, but only some, not all. There has been a lot of confusion in a couple recent fights whether or not the fights were 3 rounds or 5, due to this recent change. People want longer fights, which makes sense, due to only have 3 5 minute rounds which can often be lackluster, and for the fighters, the most fit one could end up winning if the fight was only a round or two more so to me that makes sense. A lot of fighters are only in shape for a couple rounds, then they start to weaken, so five rounds give the better prepared athlete a bigger chance to capitalize and win the fight. Of coarse, the company could have been more organized and made sure the fighters knew the fight would go 5.

Now I don't remember the fight in it's entirety, but what I do remember is this fight was one of the greatest displays of skill and the warrior spirit IMO. Every round was action packed, both guys trying to get each other, and to do that, especially for how hard and long they went, only a small amount of men could do something like that. I will also note that Henderson is naturally a middleweight, but he's fighting at light heavy because that's what he likes to do. Shogun, just came off a painful loss due to tko/submission before fighting Henderson as well, and he did not want to tap out again, due to what I believe was shame stemming from the last fight where he had to tap or get brutally knocked out. Pride is something very important to many fighters. Also, if you look closely it appears Shogun had broken his jaw in the fight, but he kept fighting, and in the later rounds he really took control of the fight, taking Henderson down and throwing punches in bunches. Henderson seemed to be a bit gassed in the 3rd, then more in the 4th and 5th, but the guys 40 something taking testosterone replacement therapy to gain back normal levels, and he fought his heart out. For Shogun to even get out awake in that fight was something very impressive, Henderson has a notorious right hand that's so vicious, an MMA commentator and interviewer actually gave it a name called "HENDO BOMB", because when he hits you with it, you go to sleep. Refer to YT videos labeled "Hendo vs bisping" if you want to know anything about that. He hit shogun with the same strike and many more, but it wasn't enough to break his will, and really, if it went for more than 5 who knows what could have happened. Shogun was getting the better of Henderson on top in round 5, while Hendo was very gassed.

I really don't know why you are complaining though. That was majorly one damn good fight, among two top 10 fighters, who put it all on the line. If you don't think that's a real fight, I must question that, and ask you have you ever been in a real fight that wasn't quickly over, or participated in an MMA event that went the distance? Have you ever let it all go, in hopes to take out another man who was readily capable of taking you out? I think if you have you would know how it feels to go that hard, getting hit in the head and body so hard so many times, clinching up, attempting and escaping tight submissions, taking someone down and getting taken down then getting back up... It all adds up and beats on ones endurance or gas as many people call it. So to say they are not doing what they are supposed to be doing that is just extremely absurd and maybe even a little disrespectful. They're doing what they are supposed to and what is humanly possible. They may have not remained as action packed as they were in the earlier rounds, and might have even got a little sloppy, but I highly most fighters could do what they did. Simply put, these guys are trained killers, who tried to kill each other that night, and nobody succeeded, but it made for a great show. Perhaps you should try watching the entire fight if you haven't already.

Sorry if it came off as rude. OTOH I see where there are huge disconnects out there between styles, tampering with the styles done to make the crowd happy, etc.. I have to admit though from what's being said here and preceding paragraphs - it may very well not be my thing if I don't do well with taking it for what it is.

To clarify though what irked me wasn't their shape or their fighting skill - I get the impression those two elements were fine. I just can't relate to a pre-ordained number of rounds and deliberately watering down the natural flow.

I do not understand what you mean by there are huge disconnects betwee style and how they are tampering with their styles to make the crowd happy. These guys enjoy a good battle, balls to the wall, that's how they've always been, and they got to the top of the fight game being the way they are. They are beasts, who could fight a more strategic fight and have, but they came to specifically take each other out. Sure they could be more graceful and used better game plans this fight but they were trying to prove a point to one another. BTW, that fight won Dan Henderson a title fight, which will be happening kind of soon. He will be fighting a much more technical fighter this time "Jon Jones" so I think it will be interesting to see how Henderson deals with the long reach and greco-roman wrestling Jon Jones has to offer. I don't know what you are looking for in an MMA fight though, could you explain?

The main problem is that I'm coming from a Kali/Panantukan background and additionally I don't have any real frame of reference for deliberately paced or planned fighting. I can relate to the Fedor Melianenko's way of going about it where a guy finds an opening and blitzes high and low till the other person is on the ground and from there does ground and pound until the fight is over - likely well less than a minute. The problem with that; its its almost too real and ugly and then its over. People apparently don't want to see that and likely many of the fighters themselves don't want to deal with it. Then again this goes back full circle to the argument that I was having at the beginning of this thread with another poster (which I couldn't understand how I was running up against an argument at all) - paced endurance fighting is a completely and utterly different thing from street.

edit: To really give the crux of this - when people are straight out and blatantly giving away chances to win the fight, constantly, IMHO, the outcome of the fight stops having much bearing on reality. A five round fight isn't *quite* as bad as watching WWE but its certainly heading in an unreal direction and wouldn't have to be stretched much farther to get there.

I think the last UFC 146 was pretty good, besides the main event. It was a quick PPV, but a lot of finishes. As for Antonio Silva, I don't think I've seen that much blood from a UFC fight. I kept thinking, "That guy is going to need surgery." I was surprised they didn't stop the fight during the time out.

And now Dana is hinting at a Brock Lesnar return in the future. He better eat a lot of fiber this time around.

I understand. I think in situations such as fighting in the street, those kind of styles could be very helpful. Although, I would say more so for and against the common man. I also believe that these MMA fighters, and specifically Hendo/Shogun would be more readily capable of handling someone in the street than most people in the world, regardless of the fact that they do pace themselves in their fights at times.

However, I disagree about it being too real and ugly for MMA, and I am not trying to bring up a big argument like in the past (I also did not read the big argument although I saw some of it) so excuse me if I am bringing the same things up that have been in the past. Anywho, many fighters fight with that mentality you mentioned. The problem is, most of the fighters who use it end up getting trampled on by much better fighters with better skill sets and game plans. Many professional fighters who train daily and often 100 percent are more hardened individuals than the common trained fighting man who gets in street fights, so taking a well trained opponent out like that is often much more difficult than it would be if you were faced with defending yourself against a thug or someone of that nature. To go kind of berserk, trying to take an opponent out quickly who is likely very skilled and hardy would likely be a negative use of remaining energy and put you in vulnerable positions. Now if you are faced with someone that lacks skill, I do believe your method of dealing with someone wouldn't be that bad of an idea.

Have you seen the Fedor Vs Henderson fight? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68C6RYCXUmg for the vid just in case you haven't. At about 4:26 Fedor did pretty much what you explained, and it really hurt him, costing him a knockout loss and concussion from being over confident in his standing strikes and ground and pound. See, in fights like this, with fighters like that it is not always a good idea to roll that way. In a street fight though, rarely does someone know how to escape from the bottom and throw a vicious hook off his knees/crouched like Henderson did, or anything else for that matter. Most people just know how to throw punches and some kicks standing. I also wonder if you have seen Fedor's fight with Fabricio Werdum. Fedor threw a flurry of punches, which Werdum responded to via butt flopping, tricking Fedor into having a go at ground and pound, then falling into a triangle choke. In MMA fights like this, where you have very highly skilled fighters, it's just not a great idea to use the mentality that Fedor uses these days. You could easily get caught up in something you don't want to be in. Notice in that Hendo vs Fedor fight, they were going hard the entire time, but all it took was one mistake by Fedor being over confident and focused on pounding Henderson into the mat, that caused him his demise. Fedor wasn't even that hurt before he got Ko'd, but all it took was that escape by Hendo and a swift uppercut to the chin of Fedor and the fight was over.

Again, I find it hard to compute what you are saying, in the last part. Some people prefer to fight certain ways, because they feel more comfortable with it at the time. I don't think they were blatantly giving away chances to win the fight. Could you explain what you mean? It is a combat sport, like boxing, kickboxing, ect... They all have rounds. I believe if everyone was just fighting til they could no longer fight no more, it would a lot of the time be very boring to watch, as many fighters would have to pace themselves even more, due to there being no breaks. I could imagine seeing a bunch of gassed zombies barely able to lift an arm if the fight did not go their way and end quickly. In a way, having rounds actually encourages action, because if it does go to a decision you could lose. and have you seen the toughness and heart these pro guys have? Due to that fact in many cases, taking the well trained pro fighter out is not so much an option.

I agree, it was a good card. Man oh man was Silva Bloody! He couldn't even see, there was so much blood gushing out of his head, into his eyes. There's a pic I saw of him after he got up from the vicious beating, blood was literally gushing out of his face, not down his face, but off his face... Like it was squirting out. I think I have only seen two fights that were more bloody, but only one I remember, and it had to do with Stefan Struve. He won the fight BTW. Here's the image:




Surprisingly, Bigfoot only needed a few stitches? At least that's what I recall, from reading a post fight forum thread done by his trainer/manager who made various statements. The fight probably could have been stopped before Bigfoot got knocked out I agree. The blood was getting in his eyes a lot.

True, I think on the streets its quantity and weapons more than going up against anyone particularly well trained (and usually someone well-trained won't be looking for trouble).


It looked like he ended up in a bad position (against the fence), didn't have his posture, and I think the trouble was he didn't have Henderson softened up enough yet to go for it the way he did which as a result had him chasing Henderson all over the ring until he was in a bad position for the ground and pound. I completely agree that you don't want to rush in with a preplanned blitz and hope that the first punch works with no disaster plan. The way we train is that these kinds of things start happening once they're already backpedaling, off balance, disoriented, etc., and I'm sure a lot of these guys are doing just that. Seems like any time you lose control of the fight - either on the offensive or defensive, its a problem.


It seemed like they were saying by five round match that the fight is supposed to last five rounds and that the fighters are supposed to pace themselves accordingly. I took it that way because it looked as if that's what the fighters were doing. Nothing at all wrong with giving the guys a break to regroup if its gone on for five minutes but if they're told that they're not allowed to drop the other guy until the last of five rounds (for the advertisers, viewers, or whatever else) its a bit like the advertisers and financial end of the business essentially destroying the product.

I boxed for 5 years. Record is 15-3 And a broken rib ended my career.

I'm the spanish guy in the red shorts lol


MMA is awesome. I woudn't mind learning but the $700 a month I get from SSI isn't a lot of money and MMA in my area it costs $150 a month. Then there is my $100 cell phone bill, $50 DVM fines, insurance, etc. so.... yeah.