What do you think about MMA?

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I think it is great entertainment wise, and having trained in multiple styles of sport popular in MMA I also believe it is great for legitimate self defense if you do choose to train. I'm watching the UFC (an MMA brand) Brazil Prelims right now. Great fights so far... Hoping Gabriel Gonzaga takes the win next fight!

Anyways, just wondering what everyone's thoughts on MMA (Mixed Martial Arts). I hear a lot of people love it, but a lot of people don't. The reasons I've heard people do not enjoy MMA is because of the ground game and how people think it is gay to be on the ground with a man, or someone trains a specific sport say boxing or another traditional self defense system and have a bias against MMA. Another reason is due to the violence in MMA, some people don't enjoy seeing it which I can understand.

MMA is a hit or miss for me, some fights can be really boring, while some can be really exiting.

Its nice to watch the fighters train for a fight, even though I'm not a athlete, can be use for motivation to do better in life and try your best.

What makes it boring for you?

I think some fights are boring. I dislike fights where fighters stall too much, it's boring, and I believe it should be like the Pride Days, where if you stalled too much you were given a yellow card and fined a percentage of your purse. Fighters would be more inclined to actually fight which would be more entertaining.

Same here it is inspiring to see fighters train.

There's enough violence in the world without watching people knock each other around as "entertainment".
Our culture's saturated with it, so while I find it repugnant on that level, it's also very boring.
I would liken it to an international knitting championship.

I do not understand that point of view, just because there's a bunch of violence in the world, watching two people willfully compete against one another like that, it is bad.

Less violence in the world would be nice, so would peace on earth but that will definitely never happen. Even if it did people would still train and fight, people would also watch it as a form of entertainment and sport. It's not just knocking each other around. If it was then anybody could do it, which they can't. It's an art. It requires a lot of time, mental toughness, intelligence, and tons of dedication to be good at a single effective martial art, and even more to be good at multiple martial arts. That's why there is a huge following for MMA and not some mindless bare knuckle fighting. What you gain when you dedicate yourself to martial arts is discipline and a sense of humbleness, which actually will result in less violence outside of actual official fights in a ring or cage. This doesn't go for all people who train or fights, but in general that's how it works.

PS, anybody see that spinning heel kick kncokout by Edson? I just saw it right as it happened... Holy ****! Beautiful display of technique and power there... Wow

Love it.

I love it, but the yellow card for stalling does sound like a good idea. Laying and praying really gets on my nerves.

How deep, the topic of regulated and consensual fights somehow gets you ranting about violence in the world and how American culture is full of it. Y so srs?

Violence is violence to me, and the fact that people can get famous being violent makes it all the worse.


Right. And black men will never be considered persons and women, citizens.

You didn't ask for opinions on popular entertainment and conceptions of sport, you asked for this forums opinion on MMA, and I gave mine.

It's called "Jerry Springer".

I've gotten that from volunteering at an animal shelter.

Source?

I'm sorry, you must have read this:

and this:

as this:

Oh I'm sorry, I had no idea that commenting on another person's ranting meant that I'm intolerant of any criticism of MMA, and that the OP asking what people think of MMA also meant he was asking what everyone's thoughts on American culture and world violence are. You must've read my post as:

When it's more like

Sure you're entitled to your opinion, but am I not entitled to my opinion on your opinion, like why I think it's pathetic to soapbox about world violence, American culture, and the rights of Blacks and women in a sports thread? Oh, and

Yeah I'm sure anyone on Jerry Springer can take on a professional MMA fighter. And I guess fighting random nobodies in your backyard totally prepares you for being a contender for the title in a professional league. Oh wait, it doesn't. Ask Kimbo Slice.

You're one to ask for a source after making an unfounded and idiotic false equivalency between the fighting skills of those on Jerry Springer and professional fighters .

Just checked it out on youtube, it's definitely nice and technical. Reminds me a lot of Cung Le's spinning heel kicks. Why did they stop the fight though? The guy that got hit didn't even get knocked down. btw whatever happened to David Loiseau? I remember that dude had some sick TKD style kicks.

He asked for commentary on MMA.
I told him what I thought and why.
I'm sorry if you don't think this-or-that practice is at all related to culture at large,
but then I wasn't giving him your opinion, but mine.
It's hardly "soapboxing" to explain that I don't like X because to me X represents a manifestation of a larger part of culture with which I do not identify or agree.

No one "soapboxed" about anything.
I shared my opinion on why I dislike something and you mistook my
analogy using blacks and women's rights to highlight how absurd it is to make bald declarations about world states that will "never happen"
for "soapboxing".

It's all really lulzy. I don't care if you like MMA, really, I don't.

I personally am not really a fan. I'd rather watch a good boxing match, my favorite fighting sport to watch would be judo, though, as I used to judo as a kid, but it's rarely on TV. I like judo as a martial art, as it's one of the few martial arts you can train and fight full contact without the combatants getting hurt. To ValentineWiggin, judo actually means "Gentle Way" it was actually as a martial art designed to minimize injury to your opponent, and lots of schools in Japan have it in gym class, etc. Pretty cool stuff.

My main beef with MMA, as it's not really so much "mixed martial arts," it's more became it's own sloppy form of...whatever. Most fights I've seen (honestly not too many, so maybe I'm off in my assessment some) look like sloppy kickboxing matches, until they spend the whole rest of the time on the ground. It seems like the fighters have very little "grace." Maybe it's effective, but I personally find it boring to watch. I think MMA sorta happened by "bullshido" schools of normal martial arts springing up, where the schools would teach 800 katas or whatever, but never do real full contact sparring, so the actual practitioners of the arts would be screwed in a real fight. Bruce Lee's opinion was basically this, back in the 70s. So MMA started off as a cool concept, but now that "MMA" has become it's own form, it's pretty lame.

I visited an MMA gym near me, and wasn't impressed. I was just wondering if they'd have an Olympic weight platform or a power rack, had neither, it had less weight machines than my gym, and I don't believe even had a squat rack. So for building practical strength, you're screwed there. This school was a Ken Shamrock chain school, too, so high end place. But, the lack of weights really didn't impress me at all, and gave me a really high "bullshido" vibe.

I think my biggest issue, in critique with MMA, is the sort of "culture" that surrounds it. It's lack of softspoken-ness, etc, and the fact that while traditional martial arts take a long time to master, MMA sorta just puts you on the fast track to beating people up. The whole lack of structure that the entire sport seems to condone, I don't like. I think overall, there's much too much of a "LOOK AT ME I'M A TOUGH GUY" kinda image the sport has, that traditional martial arts don't have, too, that's really offputting.

So yes, that's my criticism of MMA. Keep in mind, I'm not terribly cool and only have a yellow belt in judo from a kid, so yeah, it doesn't count terribly much.

I don't because the propensity for violence is a very specific subcultural thing rather than a generalized "culture of violence". Don't take the fact that I check my social commentaries at the door for me being ignorant. I don't equate thuggery or douchebaggery which is perpetuated by certain subcultures with the general atmosphere of athletic competition and sportsmanship. If you don't like violence in media, then to each his/her own but it's condescending to call it "entertainment" as if it is a lower form of entertainment just because it isn't a scholarly type of entertainment.

Soapboxing generally means preaching and/or ranting in a pompous manner to either further an agenda or make a point. If the shoe fits, well it isn't going to wear itself.

Nor do I care if you don't. Some of my buddies don't and I've never made a big deal out of it. I can see why the ground fighting and the slower pace compared to boxing would bore people, or how the whole idea of using all limbs and joints for striking makes it look like human cockfighting. I just thought you were arrogant about it, especially when you made professional fighters out to be on the same level as people who fight on Jerry Springer as if fighting takes absolutely no finesse at all. Just because I don't like curling, it doesn't mean I have to trash its value as entertainment or make degrading remarks about how much skill it takes to curl.

Annnyyywayyysss....

I think the whole traditional vs MMA thing is like comparing apples to oranges. MMA is strictly sport while traditional martial arts is more of a complete lifelong program. Different tools for different purposes. As for the sloppy form, that's because cross-training makes you more of a jack of all trades and you also have to account for the fact that you have to cut corners in some of the strikes since they may cost you a takedown or a clinch. For example, when it comes to the roundhouse kick, rather than doing a full rotation I've been taught a variant where I step into it rather than turn on the ball of my foot. Also, MMA fighters generally don't lean forward into their stance or angle themselves like boxers since that would leave you open to kicks and grapples.

As for the tough guy s**t, that's the consequence of mass appeal. MMA has a more sporty appeal than traditional martial arts so yeah it does appeal to jocks more so than traditional martial arts would. However I've also seen some tough guy s**t in traditional dojos too and it's more of a weird cultish vibe than the gorilla jock s**t so it doesn't stand out as much but it's definitely there. It's more like these guys would go on and on about what they'd do in a "real fight" when these guys would get a gun or a knife pulled on them in the neck of the woods I grew up in if they acted like they do in the dojo. I hate when people talk about a "real fight". f**k this real fight crap, how about avoiding where gang bangers and bikers tend to hang out? That way, the closest thing you'll get to a "real fight" is some obnoxious p**** trying to start something with you, and you're not likely gonna get into a life threatening confrontation with one anyways so it defeats the purpose of this hypothetical circle jerk.

Fights where they are wrestling on the ground most of the time is boring for me.

Thanks for your opinion. Moving on...

Hey AceofSpades I think you got the wrong vid on YT. The spinning wheel kick Edson Barboza landed was right on the button, and his opponent Terry Etim went out instantly, stiff as a board before he even hit the ground. I'll try to find a vid today (Here it is! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SShZkElXekI) . I remember seeing a couple of David Loiseau's fights, never really paid him much attention though. According to Wikipedia he is fighting outside of the UFC now, so I am guessing he was cut. PS, did you hear? Anthony Johnson is cut for missing weight and losing his fight against Vitor Belfort. I for one am shocked!



I enjoy a good boxing match too. Unfortunately I cannot find a whole lot these days. I really dig the old school boxing fights with George Foreman, Ali, James Tony and others. I also love kickboxing. Judo is cool. Have you heard of the new female under the spotlight "Ronda Rousey"? Apparently she's all about Judo, she was an olympian Judoka at I believe the age of only 17, and is now transitioning to MMA. Don't quote me on this but I think all of her wins in MMA come from the first round via armbar. She's vicious with the takedowns and ground game for sure. Her next fight is for the women's 135lb StrikeForce title. I don't know about Judo being gentle though, the way Ronda cranks those armbars is vicious... Her last opponents elbow was F'd up. Perhaps you mean in training?

I agree there are a lot of sloppy fighters out there. Some guys love to simply duke it out, and some of those fights are fun to watch to me as well, even if the fight isn't very technical. It seems that some fighters, wrestlers in particular are known for laying and praying. Which basically is your lay on each other borefest, do nothing but smother a guy for the whole round kind of thing. It's point fighting. Unfortunately in the majority of MMA orgs, you are not deducted a point for stalling, and doing nothing to very little to the grounded opponent. In the Pride org the Japanese Referee would penalize you with a card which means you will lose a point on the scorecards and a small percentage of your purse if this happened. Have you heard of Alistair Overeem, current K-1 Grand Prix champion, and next contender for the HW UFC title? UFC has got an amazing top grade champion Heavyweight Kick Boxer in their roster now and even in his last fight, his liver kick was on spot and dropped his opponent but it didn't have the greatest technique because he didn't want to risk being taken down by a guy who is a known wrestler. I do not understand what you mean by MMA happened from bullshido schools. I think a lot of the strictly traditional martial art teachers would have a ton of problems with an actual legit MMA practitioner. I know that much of what I was taught in Karate when I was younger is not practical for a real fight, but it was to teach discipline, finding your center, part athleticism, and improving techniques which were not all too practical to use against another person. A lot of it was not useful, then again a lot of it was. We did full contact sparring and had karate fights but I never really felt comfortable fighting even though I won. Then I began taking classes in kickboxing and Jiu Jitsu, that's when things really became clear to me. Fighting was much more than practicing the same karate techniques in the air which didn't really help in fighting, breaking boards, focusing your inner chi ect ect... I am much better at self defense because I began venturing out multiple martial arts that are not so much formed on tradition, but instead effectiveness. I think most traditional martial arts are fading away to be honest and what is replacing them is modernized martial art which to me is actually more logical. Though some of the traditional arts such as Judo or Jiu Jitsu will probably always remain because they are very logical in terms of how you use what you learn... With a gi and without. They are very practical in real life situations where you will need to defend yourself.

Yeah, a lot of gyms are "mcdojos" or "bullshidos" as you call them. Any regular joe can own their own gym and run it however they want really. That's the sad thing about it. I go on a MMA site and there is a whole butt load of people being blacklisted or publicly shamed for owning or working at a "Mcdojo" claiming they are better than they actually are, while many of them are absolute dumbies regarding any form of martial art. There's a lot of fakes out there. Personally, I don't know if I would trust a Shamrock brand gym that much. This is just going by how Ken Shamrock has turned out, recently as well as Frank Shamrock. (didn't he just have to close down one of his gyms?)... Things do not seem to be going super well for those guys. I also am against Ken Shamrocks use of steroids in the sport of MMA when it was not allowed. It is really surprising to hear that they didn't have a nice facility that caters to all aspects of fighting though . I think the best thing you can do is go on a active MMA forum that has respectable fighters which frequent the forum, and ask about a good facility around where you live. I've seen some people do it and get some really good responses.

I suppose some of the younger guys who are full of testosterone can become rash, and not so soft spoken. I especially see this with casual fans of the sport, and people who don't do MMA that take MMA too serious. I think with age, experience, and professionalism that often changes though. Out of my experiences in the gym with real fighters and people who are simply training, I've met mostly nice people, and the odd douchebag toughguy. The nice people have definitely by far outnumbered the dumb tough guys I've met that is for sure. Of coarse, it all depends on the gym you frequent. Any gym, whether it is a very traditional based gym, or a gym that has traditional and MMA styles of teaching, there will always be some A-Hole who thinks he is better than people. I think when you get beaten up in sparring, have to train extremely hard, and go 75-100 percent in the gym, you gain a better sense of respect and care for your fellow mates though.

Well, what I meant was, Bruce Lee with his JKD, as being the answer to not as practical actual martial arts. JKD seems like a prototype of sorts of MMA.

Personally, if I were to do a martial art, I'm looking at Tai Chi. What tai-chi masters can do is simply astounding to me. That, and the random tai chi master dude in Shenmue II who taught Ryo a new move was really cool, lol. Right now I figure skate, which you might think isn't very martial arty, but the way you train for it is surprisingly like a martial art. All the moves in the field type stuff, it's like a kata, and you gotta be pretty exact in the way you do them, there's not really room for sloppiness in figure skating. That, and the strength you gain is astounding. My first time on a squat rack I was doing my bodyweight (with a manta ray, though) with no issue, and in couple weeks got up to 365 for reps (again with a manta ray, so kinda cheating), and I could deadlift 265 my first time ever. The lower body gets developed well. Plus, some of the girls, I've seen them just screwing around, doing head kicks for warmup on the bleachers. There's likely 110 pound girls there that could beat my ass if they so chose to. Sounds a bit silly, but yes. Bruce Lee, I've read was actually a champion ballroom dancer before he started martial arts, so I'll stick with my skating for now, and wait on my dreams of becoming Kenshiro or Baki the Grappler.

Well, judo does in fact mean gentle way, yes. Maybe it's just gentler than like...ninjitsu or something, I don't know. I think maybe it's because a lot of martial arts from before were meant for flatout killing your opponent. But, at least when I did judo, we'd do full contact sparring with no pads at all. Maybe getting back into judo would be cool, but honestly I only remember how to fall, and like 2 sweep throws. It was fun, though, and my teachers, even though it was just a YMCA program, I think looking back were reasonably knowledgeable. We even got to crosstrain in sumo wrestling for a couple days, fun.