**Paleolithic-Diet Fan Club/Support Thread**

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A paleolithic diet means not eating any starchy carbohydrates, ( rice, wheat, corn, potatoes etc) , no pulses, ( beans and lentils ) or seed oils, and little or no dairy, but instead eating meat, fish, shellfish, eggs, nuts and seeds, salad and flash-fried/micro-steamed vegetables, and fruit.

Example: yesterday: mushroom omelette, with green-beans and carrots, and an olive oil, herb and tomato sauce, for lunch, and a bowl of avocado and garlic ( because I'm simultaneously targeting a suspected systemic-candida condition, after too long giving in to sugar and carbohydrate cravings generally) "guacamole" with cucumber and raw carrot sticks for supper.

I am just realising, with a kind of shocked astonishment, that except for a six month period in South Africa 10 years ago now, (when ate delicious and cheap local red meat at least a couple of times a week), I have eaten very little meat for years, probably 20 to be exact.

I have gone though phases of eating a big bowl of tuna salad everyday, and periods here in france of eating meat, generally bacon bits in soups/stews/hotpots, and small amounts of lamb or chicken, once or twice a week, but otherwise regular meat eating stopped when I began selling my lunch tickets for the canteen at university to eat chips and beans in the cafe-bar or a toasted pitta bread with melted cheese in my room. While I still had enough money after uni I did eat chicken in indian restaurants almost once week, and in take-outs...

But the biggest change I now see, looking back with this fresh perspective, is that since mid-university, and especially since my mid twenties, I have been eating more and more starchy carbohydrates. What I used to see as a chore/bore to eat in childhood I have made my staple food. ( rice, potatoes, etc, and bread and pizzas when eating gluten)

Humans didn't used to eat like this. Until very recently in human evolution, 15,000 years ago, humans ate no starchy carbohydrates at all. I think the likelihood of my body being adapted to them is small. Starches take a long time to digest, which uses up energy , for which our only digestive weapon/tool is the amylase in our saliva.

Despite excluding dairy I've decided to eat a goat's cheese from time to time to keep up calcium supplies.

So, does anyone else eat paleo/stone-age? Birdgirl, you mentioned going on it on the Gluten-free Diet Support thread in members only, how is it going?

Last edited by ouinon on 23 May 2008, 2:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

I think it bears pointing out that we as a species have continued to consume starchy carbs and dairy for thousands of years (and actually devote quite a bit of energy to cultivating sources of these carbohydrates), rather than abandoning the idea, so as a whole, it must work pretty well for us (I think one could argue that starchy grains were the dietary fuel for the rise of modern civilization).

That being said, there's nothing wrong with the diet you've outlined as long as it meets your dietary needs (protein, minerals, vitamins, fats, energy) and the caloric input matches your level of activity (this second point is the most basic form of the equation for maintaining a healthy body weight: calories in should equal calories out).

I agree. I think that the mutation of grass plants which occurred in the Fertile Crescent ( the middle East) after the last ice age, about 15,000 years ago, which resulted in glutenous grains of wheat and rye, may have been the actual apple/"fruit" which caused the "fall".

From nomadic hunter-gatherers who built temporary circular dwellings, painted on cave walls, worshipped spirits of the wood and field, and whose "structure" was provided naturally by the hours of daylight, seasons, weather, and animal populations, to people who suddenly wanted rectangular houses, to live in one place, work many more hours a day than previously, and store stuff.

I think that it is possible that most of what we know as civilisation; money, writing, rectangular buildings, religion, etc, are the result of the effect that gluten, and possibly starchy carbohydrates in general, had on our brains.

It was such a trip, such a buzz, those first few molecules of the biggest ( protein) molecule we ever eat, that despite opposition from elders who saw its radical effect on the human neuropsychology, humans ( almost) never looked back.

I think it was an addiction at the start, until it became such an automatic part of our diet that its effect was forgotten about. Like sugar, which when it was first introduced in europe in 1100 AD by the Arabs/Moors functioned as a bribe it was so desirable/longed for, and arab surgeons used it as a anaesthetic/painkiller for operations, like morphine, another white powder from a plant.

I think that cereals started off like sugar. And great empires were built on its cultivation, like were built on sugar, using slaves ( Egypt, and closer in time, Rome but by then it was almost banal, like alcohol, coffee or tobacco is now ) and increasingly complex techniques and transport. Technological progress was fuelled by desire for it.

Writing was invented to keep a tally of business in it. Ecological disasters, like the Sahara Desert, have happened as a result of our driving need for it.

Yes, I totally agree. Civilisation is founded on starchy carbohydrates, particularly glutenous ones.

But I have never found the structures created by humans to frame our days/activities very convincing. I bow willingly only to the authority of the sun and weather and seasons. I loved hunter-gathering. And I think parenthood is much easier when shared out amongst a whole tribe/group. Circular buildings I find very calming. So I'm going to eat somewhat like they did for a while. It might feel good!

Today have eaten lamb's hearts, grill-fried so got lovely chewy edges on pieces, and an apple.

And goat's cheese with red fruit chutney/conserve. mmmm

Nettle tea, and grape juice.

It's interesting...

I eat a fairly similar diet to the paleolithic one, though with some exceptions:

I live on vegetables, fruit, fish, nuts and seeds.

Although I tend to avoid them, I do eat grains (wheat or rye, primarily) a few times a week, and potatoes fairly frequently (a few times a week but more than the grains, which I instinctively avoid but can't avoid in certain foods) and I will eat lentils occasionally, but that's really it. I don't eat much red meat, unless I feel the urge to eat it sometimes and will do - I listen to my body and tend to give it what it's asking for! - but then it's organic etc. Not much dairy - only greek yoghurt and blue cheeses - and no eggs, due to allergy.

I just avoid anything processed, anything packaged, anything nasty. Natural foods full of energy are the way to go. I eat anything with processed sugar and refined flour and I just don't feel right - my head goes a bit muddled and I feel quite off! Give me my fruits and veges any day.

I might have to exclude the goat's cheese though.

Yesterday's small consumption ( if it wasn't the small amount of sugar in the fruit chutney after three days entirely sugar-free? ) gave me/has given me a bout of itchy/irritable bumps on my face. The classic allergic reaction on re-exposure to dairy in other words. After 6 months dairy free I was hoping that goat's milk might be ok so could boost calcium intake. But no.

I hate this skin reaction. It's a restless, irritable feeling. Pre-occupying.

Cheese almost certainly wasn't a paleo thing anyway; according to archeology no goats/sheep etc were gathered and/or milked on a repeated basis until after the end of the last ice age.

LeKiwi, why do you only eat blue cheese? Do you find it less allergenic/more digestible?

Last edited by ouinon on 23 May 2008, 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Please bear in mind that human diets varied according to geographic location as well as skills in hunting and farming.

In the extreme Northern climes, the diet was quite different than those in areas that were not constantly frozen.

Also it mattered whether a culture had access to another culture and trade was initiated between the two.
Exchanges of food and the tools necessary to create new food sources could have been shared this way also.

Absolutely.

That could well be another reason why I may need more meat than my previous/frequent periods of semi-vegetarian diets have allowed for. My ancestors are northern european. Perhaps people from more tropical/hot climates support more sweet/starchy veg and fruit.

That is interesting.
I'd thing more about it but I need to leave work (I've been off for three hours now) and go home to sleep.

I remember seeing a dental book once describing diets of aboriginal/native peoples and the health of their teeth, and the way everything changed once these people got ahold of things like refined sugars.

You might want to see if cutting out dairy gets rid of the bumps - some friends on the Magic Bus had similar problems. The forum is here: http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org

I'm Shelly over there. ::waves::

Thank you very much for the link. I suspect I'm going to spend a bit of time on there.

And I think you're right; I'm going to have to resume dairy-free eating. Bumm!

I have switched from dairy milk to soy milk and I really like it.
I get the vanilla soy milk which may be better than the plain.

I also have enjoyed goat's milk which is different than cow milk I believe.

Thank God dairy likes me, soy milk makes me sick for DAYS.

Which is weird, 'cause I can eat miso, tofu, edamame, you name it. Must be one of the chemicals they put in it.

Yesterday ate big bowl of delicious creamy perfect avocados mashed up with seasalt and garlic, with carrot sticks and cucumber and chicory to dip in it.

Also a couple of dozen hazelnuts, and juice.

Today, so far, eaten two small lamb chops ( with the fat, grilled crispy in places, mmmm !) with green beans. An apple. Nettle tea. And my skin is almost recovered.

Later ate pieces of beef sautéed in the goose and lamb fat from lunch including fat/juice from merguez ( spicy) sausages which son and his papa had eaten with it, with added tomatoes and the rest of the beans.

And finally a bowl of unsugared apple and plum puree with masses of almond flakes, for calcium.

:study:

Does anyone else on a paleo/low carb/high animal protein diet notice they get the most incredibly heavy and irresistible sleep?

I am getting a deep and urgent and powerful need/impulse to sleep/nap after high meat meals, and fall asleep like a log at night without the long mental "shutting-down" period that I am used to.

It is amazing to me because it's one of the things I thought was just "me" , an ability to stay awake as long as I am interested in something. I never fell asleep in front of films, or on car journeys, etc. in fact I rather despised people who did fall asleep in front of films, not "serious". Though I rather envied people who could fall asleep all over the place, on overnight coach journeys for instance.

But the kind of sleep waves I have been getting since going no-carb hi-meat are so strong I can only resist them with a huge effort.

I eat blue cheese because I love it... No other reason!

I'm going to have to cut out all dairy sources now though, I think. I just don't quite know what to do about protein as I don't eat red meat, and soy is really bad for you. I get the bumps on my face which I've been ignoring but they're getting quite bad so I think I'll have to get rid of it altogether.