Schizophrenia is autism?
JayCat
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: 1 Aug 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 27
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
In relation to Asperger’s Syndrome and Schizophrenia. I believe the only difference in the symptoms between autism and schizophrenia is the existence of a routine or repetitive action.
Suppose your routine is disturbed or made non-existent, throw a tantrum, and lose motivation. Shortly after you decide on a new routine and everything is fine.
Can this be equated to schizophrenia? I ask because in the reading material that was supplied to me by the community mental health center, states that this is what a psychotic episode is...
You are probably wondering why I am asking this or even mentioning it:
I was actually diagnosed with depression at first. I get easily upset when something changes in my life. I was told that I was in psychosis because I was depressed, and more so, because I said I am not taking medication and then it changed to schizophrenia... o_O? I am no longer depressed though...
To be honest, I only briefly glanced at the signs on the website when I first created this topic.
I actually have these from the list:
--Overly acute senses- lights are too bright, sounds are too loud.
--Staring, while in deep thought, with infrequent blinking.
--Parkinsonian type symptoms- rigidity, tremor, jerking arm movements, or involuntary movements of the limbs
--Unusual gestures or postures
--Movement is speeded up- i.e. constant pacing
--Feeling indifferent to important events
--Inability to form or keep relationships
--Social isolation- few close friends if any. Little interaction outside of immediate family.
--Increased withdrawal, spending most of the days alone.
--Becoming lost in thoughts and not wanting to be disturbed with human contact
--Neglect in self-care- i.e. hygiene, clothing, or appearance
--Replaying or rehearsing conversations out loud- i.e. talking to yourself (very common sign)
--Functional impairment in interpersonal relationships, work, education, or self-care
--Ruminating thoughts- these are the same thoughts that go around and round your head but get you nowhere. Often about past disappointments, missed opportunities, failed relationships.
--Racing thoughts
--Trouble with social cues- i.e. not being able to interpret body language, eye contact, voice tone, and gestures appropriately.
--Often not responding appropriately and thus coming off as cold, distant, or detached.
--Difficulty expressing thoughts verbally. Or not having much to say about anything.
--Speaking in an abstract or tangential way. Odd use of words or language structure
--Difficulty understanding simple things
--Thoughts, behavior, and actions are not integrated
--Obsessive compulsive tendencies- with thoughts or actions
Then I look at the Asperger’s symptoms list and I have "ALL" of them.
http://www.emedicinehealth.com/asperger ... 20Symptoms
Then I look at Autism by itself and I have "ALL" of those too; in fact autism actually fits my symptoms better.
http://www.emedicinehealth.com/autism/p ... 20Symptoms
So, since I have a majority of the schizophrenia symptoms, I might also have schizophrenia? ^_^!
By the way, the diagnosis was "mild schizophrenia". Whatever that is... Maybe it means just that, “only a subset of the symptoms?”
In addition, what is term used when you give up on socialising because of autistic symptoms? Can that still be equated to a lack of motivation? I am asking because I have not decided whether the whole social groups concept is actually going to help me; and yes I had been invited to one. I like to know exactly what I will gain from doing a certain activity, otherwise I just will not try it. < I'm not sure if this is schizophrenia.
Furthermore, does schizophrenia have symptoms of attachment to objects, tantrums and more? I was reading an article and repetitive action is exhibited in schizophrenics too. x_X! Confusing!! !
This could be the result of misdiagnosis and also because different psychiatrists have differing opinions on what it actually is. For clarification, see the second and third paragraphs.
I am beginning to think the two “disorders” *cough* are actually the same thing on a spectrum, because all mental illnesses seem to be linked continuously and where exactly one “classification” ends and another one starts is unknown. I believe that having discrete boundaries for an impairment is ludicrous because it is subjective. No wonder they are contemplating the removal of Asperger’s Syndrome.
On Another Point.
I think I will go back and ask the psychiatrists more thoroughly about the diagnosis.
DSM diagnoses are designed to be determined from behavior only. So, as far as the DSM is concerned "negative symptoms" means only one thing, even if different causes exist. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that there is a weakness of the DSM there, which can get autistic people labelled as having negative schizophrenic symptoms even if it is an "autistic thing."
I don't disagree with that assessment of the DSM. Yes, the DSM does have its weaknesses because at present with disorders, all clinicians can do is diagnose through subjective interpretation of another person's experiences.
However, I was under the impression that a scz would only be made if you already had an Asperger's dx if you had hallucinations and delusions, so you might want to talk to your treatment team about why they've given you both dxes.
That is also my understanding (can't find a reference off-hand, though). The OP might want to ask the professionals involved for clarification about that.
I couldn't quite find something for Asperger's, but I did find this from here: http://www.sacramentopsychology.com/ind ... tr-.html...
I wish the DSM was available free online. If the ICD-10 is free online, why not the DSM?
_________________
Said the apple to the orange,
"Oh, I wanted you to come
Close to me and
Kiss me to the core."
Think you're ASD? Get thee to a professional!
@JayCat: Not quite, one difference between schizophrenia and ASD is the age of onset. Schizophrenia emerges later in life. There are cases of childhood schizophrenia, but symptoms usually emerge after years of normal development. With ASD, there is usually some sort of oddity in development which is noticeable in toddlerhood.
There have been research discussing the links between ASD and schizophrenia spectrum issues, because of some of the similarities in symptoms. They are still discrete symptoms, though. I don't know if your clinicians thought you were presenting with a thought disorder, hence giving you the schizophrenia dx.
_________________
Said the apple to the orange,
"Oh, I wanted you to come
Close to me and
Kiss me to the core."
Think you're ASD? Get thee to a professional!
I don't think this is completely accurate. My only diagnosis is Asperger; but, up until I was 21 I simply lacked any interest in interacting with people, period. It had nothing to do with any negative experiences. Yes, I was teased a lot during the ages 10-14, but I didn't take it to heart. The bullies were just "inconveniences" that forced me to stop and be bullied and/or physical (NOT emotional) threats that were threatening to kick me if I don't do what they wanted. But regardless, the whole bullying thing stopped when I moved from Russia to USA at the age of 14. But still, I continued to be indifferent to socialization all the way until I was 21. The main reason was the fact that all I wanted to do was physics and socialization was "a waste of time".
At 21 things changed BECAUSE of negative experiences. When I encountered a situation when no one would tlak to me, I took it very personally and decided to "prove it wrong" by "manufacturing" people that would talk to me. It didn't work no matter how hard I tried. So I developed a major obsession about it and my life revolved around this issue for the next few years. While right now (I am 31) it is not as extreme as it was, I still take it quite personally waht people say or think about me and want to socialize.
But still the point bieng is that, until I was 21, I genuinely didn't care about socialization, period. So you can't say that "not caring" is limitted to schizophrenia-type negative symptoms; my only diagnosis is Asperger.
from age 30-44 my doctor diagnosed me as schizo, had me on zyprexa and clonazepam.
recently work sent me to a doctor due to performance issues.
the new doctor diagnosed me as AS with anxiety issues. he said the anti-psychotic zyprexa was the reason for my work performance failing. i could not concentrate while on it.
so yes, ppl are misdiagnosed frequently by incompetent doctors.
@Roman not caring is an attitude too. If we end up thinking that every aspect of our personality must be diagnosable, then that's why we end up with misdiagnoses. Out of curiosity, how does the world of psychiatry/mental illness compare to the empirical world of physics? Does it feel like it's a different world altogether?
@SmallFruitSong how does "Schizoaffective became asymptomatic" and yet still have that diagnosis? If a diagnosis is without symptoms then surely it becomes void?
As most of the others have already posted, No, autism and schizophrenia are not the same thing and are usually not linked. As with other disorders, there may be symptom overlap.
It is easy to understand this confusion, because the same thing has happened to me. Most of my Asperger's traits have been mistaken to be caused by schizophrenia, though I, like you, have had these traits my whole life. Also, they've just recently labelled my son as Asperger's, which makes things interesting.
Not quite. I'm not displaying the symptoms now, but I have in the past and there's every chance that it would rear its head in the future. Which is why I need to constantly monitor it and take my medication. Schizoaffective is one of those conditions that doesn't ever permanently go away. It can go into remission [which apparently is happening to me] but it's like Asperger's - you deal with the symptoms and the condition, you learn coping skills, but it always remains.
_________________
Said the apple to the orange,
"Oh, I wanted you to come
Close to me and
Kiss me to the core."
Think you're ASD? Get thee to a professional!
The thing is that with Asperger things are black or white while with NT-s there are gray areas. So in case of NT-s they always have SOME interest in socialization; some people have "more" interest others have "less". But with Asperger I was not interested in socialization at all. By the way, the psychiatrist that diagnosed me with Asperger also believes lack of interest in socialization is part of it; in fact it was one of the main things she discussed with me in the context of diagnosis.
I have most of the symptoms on the early signs page of schizophrenia dotcom but no hallucinations or delusions.
Now i know...
However, it states from 15 to 26 years old and i have always been like this....
What you describe could be Schizotypal Disorder. Many Aspies get misdiagnosed with
this disorder and vice versa because they have many commonalities.
But I can say for certain, if you have no psychotic symptoms, that you are not schizophrenic.
Maybe you had a psychotic period at the time when you got the diagnosis.
Psychosis is not necessarily permanent, whereas Schizophrenia is assumed chronic.
_________________
"One Law for the lion and the ox is oppression" W.Blake.
"Life itself is an exercise in Exceptions!" Capt. Picard (Star Trek - The Next Generation).
You don't necessarily need hallucinations and/or delusions [aka positive symptoms] to get a schizophrenia dx. You can get a schizophrenia dx if you display disorganised thoughts and behaviours and if you present with primarily negative symptoms. In the DSM there's five categories of schizophrenia and only paranoid schizophrenia [IIRC] is seen to have floridly positive symptoms.
_________________
Said the apple to the orange,
"Oh, I wanted you to come
Close to me and
Kiss me to the core."
Think you're ASD? Get thee to a professional!
JWS
Velociraptor
Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 448
Location: The mountains of eastern Kentucky
Suppose your routine is disturbed or made non-existent, throw a tantrum, and lose motivation. Shortly after you decide on a new routine and everything is fine.
Can this be equated to schizophrenia? I ask because in the reading material that was supplied to me by the community mental health center, states that this is what a psychotic episode is...
You are probably wondering why I am asking this or even mentioning it:
I was actually diagnosed with depression at first. I get easily upset when something changes in my life. I was told that I was in psychosis because I was depressed, and more so, because I said I am not taking medication and then it changed to schizophrenia... o_O? I am no longer depressed though...
To be honest, I only briefly glanced at the signs on the website when I first created this topic.
I actually have these from the list:
--Overly acute senses- lights are too bright, sounds are too loud.
--Staring, while in deep thought, with infrequent blinking.
--Parkinsonian type symptoms- rigidity, tremor, jerking arm movements, or involuntary movements of the limbs
--Unusual gestures or postures
--Movement is speeded up- i.e. constant pacing
--Feeling indifferent to important events
--Inability to form or keep relationships
--Social isolation- few close friends if any. Little interaction outside of immediate family.
--Increased withdrawal, spending most of the days alone.
--Becoming lost in thoughts and not wanting to be disturbed with human contact
--Neglect in self-care- i.e. hygiene, clothing, or appearance
--Replaying or rehearsing conversations out loud- i.e. talking to yourself (very common sign)
--Functional impairment in interpersonal relationships, work, education, or self-care
--Ruminating thoughts- these are the same thoughts that go around and round your head but get you nowhere. Often about past disappointments, missed opportunities, failed relationships.
--Racing thoughts
--Trouble with social cues- i.e. not being able to interpret body language, eye contact, voice tone, and gestures appropriately.
--Often not responding appropriately and thus coming off as cold, distant, or detached.
--Difficulty expressing thoughts verbally. Or not having much to say about anything.
--Speaking in an abstract or tangential way. Odd use of words or language structure
--Difficulty understanding simple things
--Thoughts, behavior, and actions are not integrated
--Obsessive compulsive tendencies- with thoughts or actions
Then I look at the Asperger’s symptoms list and I have "ALL" of them.
http://www.emedicinehealth.com/asperger ... 20Symptoms
Then I look at Autism by itself and I have "ALL" of those too; in fact autism actually fits my symptoms better.
http://www.emedicinehealth.com/autism/p ... 20Symptoms
So, since I have a majority of the schizophrenia symptoms, I might also have schizophrenia? ^_^!
By the way, the diagnosis was "mild schizophrenia". Whatever that is... Maybe it means just that, “only a subset of the symptoms?”
In addition, what is term used when you give up on socialising because of autistic symptoms? Can that still be equated to a lack of motivation? I am asking because I have not decided whether the whole social groups concept is actually going to help me; and yes I had been invited to one. I like to know exactly what I will gain from doing a certain activity, otherwise I just will not try it. < I'm not sure if this is schizophrenia.
Furthermore, does schizophrenia have symptoms of attachment to objects, tantrums and more? I was reading an article and repetitive action is exhibited in schizophrenics too. x_X! Confusing!! !
This could be the result of misdiagnosis and also because different psychiatrists have differing opinions on what it actually is. For clarification, see the second and third paragraphs.
I am beginning to think the two “disorders” *cough* are actually the same thing on a spectrum, because all mental illnesses seem to be linked continuously and where exactly one “classification” ends and another one starts is unknown. I believe that having discrete boundaries for an impairment is ludicrous because it is subjective. No wonder they are contemplating the removal of Asperger’s Syndrome.
On Another Point.
I think I will go back and ask the psychiatrists more thoroughly about the diagnosis.
I have been diagnosed schizophreniform, suspected of having mild or type II schizophrenia - as in your case my delusions are mild if present at all - I have no hallucinations. I have all the negative symptoms (and apparently disorganized thinking).
There are things that really makes me think I am schizophrenic as opposed to having aspergers; the lack of goal directed behavior - I find I am constantly changing my mind so that I can rarely get anything done. I don't have a routine like 8:30 brush teeth or anything like that. I constantly have to take breaks because I feel like I am overly sensitive to any discomfort.
Another thing that convinces me the most is my steady decreased cognitive functioning, I have to remind myself because I am inclined to believe I have aspergers, but the truth is when I look at my notes there is an unmistakable tendancy for my thoughts to trail off into something entirely unrelated.
There are things that really makes me think I am schizophrenic as opposed to having aspergers; the lack of goal directed behavior - I find I am constantly changing my mind so that I can rarely get anything done. I don't have a routine like 8:30 brush teeth or anything like that. I constantly have to take breaks because I feel like I am overly sensitive to any discomfort.
Another thing that convinces me the most is my steady decreased cognitive functioning, I have to remind myself because I am inclined to believe I have aspergers, but the truth is when I look at my notes there is an unmistakable tendancy for my thoughts to trail off into something entirely unrelated.
I totally have type II schizophrenia and mild BP in addition to AS it makes life very difficult.
Another thing that convinces me the most is my steady decreased cognitive functioning, I have to remind myself because I am inclined to believe I have aspergers, but the truth is when I look at my notes there is an unmistakable tendancy for my thoughts to trail off into something entirely unrelated.
We are not alone!
***
... bet im being stalked on here too.... when you ramble to your self at such a magnitude ... in public spaces.. it causes such controversey .... indeed
well now u stalkers know... ASD + schizophrenic....
but for the love of god... why add insult to injury.. waht the gad damn apple lodged in my back
if they wanna f**k my brain up more than i already did they succeeded
at least give me propper date after all the gad damn sexual harassment
RUN RABBIT RUN
...
Last edited by archraphael on 24 Nov 2011, 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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