Antipsychotic WARNING!
01 Dec 2011, 8:14 am
I am on olanzapine 20mg and aripiprazole 15mg and I can say that antipsychotics have saved my life, literally. I know that the side-effects can be bad in some, but with judicious use they are helpful to some degree in most.
I have a healthy weight, my blood glucose is fine, I don't have lipid abnormalities and the only side-effect I get is tiredness after taking the olanzapine at night.
"Antipsychotics are more dangerous than heroin" - I'm sorry but that is rubbish.
I've been sectioned under the Mental Health Act 10 times, 5 of which were police dragging me, handcuffing me and forcibly taking me to hospital.
Do you really think I would prefer to be in the secure unit again?
No of course I don't.
So I say thank you to my antipsychotics for keeping me out of hospital, and helping me to live a life.
I am doing a BSc in Pharmacology in University in London. I am undergoing personal training for endurance cross-country running. And I will be getting a voluntary job next month. I couldn't do these if I were to be left unmedicated.
I have been on some antipsychotics in the past that have made me feel horrendous, but the solution was just to come off them and try another medication. I have, separately, tried 7 different antipsychotics in the last 7 years of being ill with schizophrenia. But I never gave up hope.
I got very good marks in my exams last year. I wouldn't have done that if I had been hallucinating constantly, believing I have a "Mission to save the world from dictatorship" and being unable to think on one topic for more than 2 minutes.
So don't go and flame antipsychotics because, while some people really are not compatible with the side-effects, they have helped many.
My psychiatrist was always very careful with the medication and never ever had me on more than two psychiatric medications at the same time. Some people are over-medicated and that, I agree, is bad.
My psychiatrist also respects my pharmacology knowledge and always asks me my opinion on my medication, and involves me a lot in the decision of what medication/dose I want to take.
_________________
I am a partially verbal classic autistic. I am a pharmacology student with full time support.
01 Dec 2011, 11:42 am
Actually, neuroleptics do have a far more serious side-effect profile than diacetylmorphine (aka heroin) and have been revealed to cause significantly greater brain atrophy longterm than heroin use.
"More dangerous than heroin" is a silly statement though, as all blanket generalizations are. I take methamphetamine daily by prescription. I've heard methamphetamine is "more dangerous than heroin" too. Funny, it greatly improves my quality of life.
The difference between a medication and a poison is in the dose.
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01 Dec 2011, 3:49 pm
"More dangerous than heroin" is a silly statement though, as all blanket generalizations are. I take methamphetamine daily by prescription. I've heard methamphetamine is "more dangerous than heroin" too. Funny, it greatly improves my quality of life.
The difference between a medication and a poison is in the dose.
It depends on the neurolepitc. Haloperidol can cause apoptosis of brain cells, but olanzapine and aripiprazole are actually said to be neurotrophic (i.e. encourages development of brain cells), hence why I chose olanzapine and aripiprazole.
I stay away from the typical antipsychotics. The serotonin-dopamine antagonists have been good in my case for my positive symptoms, and aripiprazole, the dopamine partial agonist, has helped me immensely with the more negative symptoms side.
Haloperidol is a pure D2 blocker so it shuts down 90% of all the D2 receptors in the brain, irrespective of which part of the brain they're in, and that can cause upregulation and hence tardive dyskinesia, and Parkinsonism.
Yes, the therapeutic dose : toxic dose ratio is very important; it is why barbiturates are no longer widely prescribed. But second-generation antipsychotics are usually ok in that sense.
_________________
I am a partially verbal classic autistic. I am a pharmacology student with full time support.
02 Dec 2011, 1:28 am
"More dangerous than heroin" is a silly statement though, as all blanket generalizations are. I take methamphetamine daily by prescription. I've heard methamphetamine is "more dangerous than heroin" too. Funny, it greatly improves my quality of life.
The difference between a medication and a poison is in the dose.
It depends on the neurolepitc. Haloperidol can cause apoptosis of brain cells, but olanzapine and aripiprazole are actually said to be neurotrophic (i.e. encourages development of brain cells), hence why I chose olanzapine and aripiprazole.
I stay away from the typical antipsychotics. The serotonin-dopamine antagonists have been good in my case for my positive symptoms, and aripiprazole, the dopamine partial agonist, has helped me immensely with the more negative symptoms side.
Haloperidol is a pure D2 blocker so it shuts down 90% of all the D2 receptors in the brain, irrespective of which part of the brain they're in, and that can cause upregulation and hence tardive dyskinesia, and Parkinsonism.
Yes, the therapeutic dose : toxic dose ratio is very important; it is why barbiturates are no longer widely prescribed. But second-generation antipsychotics are usually ok in that sense.
I have been known to take 25mg of Seroquel during severe meltdowns. Obviously they have their uses and aren't all bad. Seroquel seems relatively benign to me, and resets my brain like nothing else. I've never taken olanzapine.
Geodon, Zyprexa, Invega, Risperdal, and Thorazine were absolute nightmare drugs for me that caused me more pain and anxiety than anything I could imagine. Everyone is different.
_________________
You may know me from my column here on WrongPlanet. I'm also writing a book for AAPC. Visit my Facebook page for links to articles I've written for Autism Speaks and other websites.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/JohnScott ... 8723228267
02 Dec 2011, 7:52 am
Geodon, Zyprexa, Invega, Risperdal, and Thorazine were absolute nightmare drugs for me that caused me more pain and anxiety than anything I could imagine. Everyone is different.
Olanzapine = Zypexa. Zyprexa is the brand name of olanzapine. I am a pharmacologist-in-training and I don't use brand names if I can help it. Seroquel = quetiapine and I haven't tried that one, but its doses range from 25-800mg.
Everyone is different indeed. I am on the maximum dose of olanzapine (Zyprexa) and I only get a bit of tiredness from it and have only put on 4kg in the last two years, although the weight gain was intentional as I've been trying to bulk up. I'm too slim in my opinion.
_________________
I am a partially verbal classic autistic. I am a pharmacology student with full time support.
02 Dec 2011, 12:34 pm
Geodon, Zyprexa, Invega, Risperdal, and Thorazine were absolute nightmare drugs for me that caused me more pain and anxiety than anything I could imagine. Everyone is different.
Olanzapine = Zypexa. Zyprexa is the brand name of olanzapine. I am a pharmacologist-in-training and I don't use brand names if I can help it. Seroquel = quetiapine and I haven't tried that one, but its doses range from 25-800mg.
Everyone is different indeed. I am on the maximum dose of olanzapine (Zyprexa) and I only get a bit of tiredness from it and have only put on 4kg in the last two years, although the weight gain was intentional as I've been trying to bulk up. I'm too slim in my opinion.
Ha ha. I always use brand names because there is a huge difference between some brands and their generic counterparts. I take IR stimulants and one brand is a completely different med than another.
Zyprexa gave me akathisia and dyskinesia. No fun.
_________________
You may know me from my column here on WrongPlanet. I'm also writing a book for AAPC. Visit my Facebook page for links to articles I've written for Autism Speaks and other websites.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/JohnScott ... 8723228267
02 Dec 2011, 3:05 pm
I am trapped in one of these problems. Have been on Zyprexa and Seroquel for 7 years. Now I can't get off them. Well, I did get off them but now I have to go back to a different antipsychotic agent because the withdraw symptoms are not to take and last forever. If you can't sleep for 5 days and your body isn't recovering then there must be a serious problem.
I do not respond to benzodiazepines and have paradox reactions to sedating low potent antipsychotics and antidepressants. I am trapped.
02 Dec 2011, 3:31 pm
I am trapped in one of these problems. Have been on Zyprexa and Seroquel for 7 years. Now I can't get off them. Well, I did get off them but now I have to go back to a different antipsychotic agent because the withdraw symptoms are not to take and last forever. If you can't sleep for 5 days and your body isn't recovering then there must be a serious problem.
I do not respond to benzodiazepines and have paradox reactions to sedating low potent antipsychotics and antidepressants. I am trapped.
Unfortunately, research shows that you may, indeed, be stuck with these drugs. The brain does not repair antipsychotic damage nearly as efficiently as it does other forms of neurological damage. Find the lowest dose of the most benign neuroleptic possible and keep your chin up.
_________________
You may know me from my column here on WrongPlanet. I'm also writing a book for AAPC. Visit my Facebook page for links to articles I've written for Autism Speaks and other websites.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/JohnScott ... 8723228267
03 Dec 2011, 4:11 am
Zyprexa gave me akathisia and dyskinesia. No fun.
Oh ok. Yes that is true; my new olanzapine (local pharmacy changed brands) initially had a different side-effect profile to the old olanzapine. But now I am ok.
Yes, IR stimulants and ER stimulants are very different. Which ones do you take?
I got akathisia from aripiprazole when I first started, to the point that I sprained a muscle. But it is better now.
Dyskinesia sounds horrible. I'm sorry to hear you had/have it.
What dose of olanzapine were you on? I'm on 20mg.
_________________
I am a partially verbal classic autistic. I am a pharmacology student with full time support.
B3astM4n
Snowy Owl
Joined: 27 Nov 2011
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 126
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
03 Dec 2011, 3:55 pm
I am trapped in one of these problems. Have been on Zyprexa and Seroquel for 7 years. Now I can't get off them. Well, I did get off them but now I have to go back to a different antipsychotic agent because the withdraw symptoms are not to take and last forever. If you can't sleep for 5 days and your body isn't recovering then there must be a serious problem.
I do not respond to benzodiazepines and have paradox reactions to sedating low potent antipsychotics and antidepressants. I am trapped.
Have you spoken to your doctor about Chronic Insomnia? I began using Seroquel a few years ago, it helped but getting the timing right to keep it stable was hard, so I went to the XR long lasting kind and it's seriously kept me sane, not exhausted, and able to live my life according to how I want to. I've never had any weird withdrawal symptoms from either type, all I had was an inability to sleep and body recovery as well, wasn't withdrawal but simply that Seroquel can help you sleep if you have Chronic Insomnia. I take opiates (Clonazepam, Valium) to calm my anxiety when it's really bad, and Imovane to sleep (Most doctors will not prescribe this at all, if they do, for only two weeks as it's horribly addictive) so I know exactly how a withdrawal come-down feels, and on Seroquel it wasn't withdrawal. I'd suggest talking to your Doc about underlying symptoms maybe that seem like withdrawal, as it's hard to tell the difference at times if you haven't experienced prescription addiction.
B3astM4n
Snowy Owl
Joined: 27 Nov 2011
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 126
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
03 Dec 2011, 3:56 pm
I have a healthy weight, my blood glucose is fine, I don't have lipid abnormalities and the only side-effect I get is tiredness after taking the olanzapine at night.
"Antipsychotics are more dangerous than heroin" - I'm sorry but that is rubbish.
I've been sectioned under the Mental Health Act 10 times, 5 of which were police dragging me, handcuffing me and forcibly taking me to hospital.
Do you really think I would prefer to be in the secure unit again?
No of course I don't.
So I say thank you to my antipsychotics for keeping me out of hospital, and helping me to live a life.
I am doing a BSc in Pharmacology in University in London. I am undergoing personal training for endurance cross-country running. And I will be getting a voluntary job next month. I couldn't do these if I were to be left unmedicated.
I have been on some antipsychotics in the past that have made me feel horrendous, but the solution was just to come off them and try another medication. I have, separately, tried 7 different antipsychotics in the last 7 years of being ill with schizophrenia. But I never gave up hope.
I got very good marks in my exams last year. I wouldn't have done that if I had been hallucinating constantly, believing I have a "Mission to save the world from dictatorship" and being unable to think on one topic for more than 2 minutes.
So don't go and flame antipsychotics because, while some people really are not compatible with the side-effects, they have helped many.
My psychiatrist was always very careful with the medication and never ever had me on more than two psychiatric medications at the same time. Some people are over-medicated and that, I agree, is bad.
My psychiatrist also respects my pharmacology knowledge and always asks me my opinion on my medication, and involves me a lot in the decision of what medication/dose I want to take.
Fantastic post, fantastic.
03 Dec 2011, 5:12 pm
I am trapped in one of these problems. Have been on Zyprexa and Seroquel for 7 years. Now I can't get off them. Well, I did get off them but now I have to go back to a different antipsychotic agent because the withdraw symptoms are not to take and last forever. If you can't sleep for 5 days and your body isn't recovering then there must be a serious problem.
I do not respond to benzodiazepines and have paradox reactions to sedating low potent antipsychotics and antidepressants. I am trapped.
Unfortunately, research shows that you may, indeed, be stuck with these drugs. The brain does not repair antipsychotic damage nearly as efficiently as it does other forms of neurological damage. Find the lowest dose of the most benign neuroleptic possible and keep your chin up.
Which research? Done by whom? Do you have links to serious articles or title and author of scientific publications related to this issue? No anti psychiatry BS please. I care for "real science".
I think this problem doesn't happen to everyone but there are some group of people who have the great risk to become depended on these medication for the rest of their liefs.
I am gonna go with Clozapin as the two other sedating agents (Zyprexa and Seroquel) didn't work for me. Clozapin is less potent Zyprexa and I hope for a better onset of the sedating part then Seroquel where it needed 2-3 hours to finally let me sleep.
These new antipsychotics are hell. Benzodiazepines are nothing against that. You always can easily withdraw with diazepam but in this case ...
04 Dec 2011, 1:29 pm
What gets me about these drugs, is that doctors often insist on pushing the more expensive ones that haven't gone off-patent, when the older and more affordable drugs will do the job just fine. A friend (who is an anticorporate liberal) once told me that doctors were making money off of prescribing more expensive drugs. I wonder if this could be the case. When I was hospitalized in the summer, I asked the attending psychiatrist why we couldn't just go with Thorazine instead of Geodon or Seroquel, and he was adamant that the older drugs caused too many side effects. But my current dr. says not everybody has those side effects, and the newer ones can be just as bad. So I dunno, I just don't really trust the newer meds any more than I do the old ones. Luckily Zyprexa's patent is expiring soon if it hasn't already (that's the med we're trying now).
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05 Dec 2011, 5:47 am
I took Risperidal to help me sleep, and it -DID- not do that. I layed in bed breathing heavily as my limbs ached and were heavy, I tried to go to the bathroom but ended up alone in the middle of my house and I couldnt move well. I called 911, they flushed me. I never want that drug ever again. I thought it was going to kill me. >(
05 Dec 2011, 9:25 am
Apparently, baby dosis of Risperidal are prescribed to people with as to help with anxiety. I was put on a baby dose of it when I was at a psychiatric hospital last spring and it actually helped. But it has to be a really really small dose, as people with asperger often react strongly to medicine
