Narcissism and ASD

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That's true

Interesting article.

Some of the symptoms of autism / narcissism do appear to overlap, and although the reasons are said to be different, I have no idea how this would be guaged.

I also heard that trauma can affect the way people think / relate to others.

I have often wondered whether my teen might have been born a personality disorder (if that's even possible), however he was put on the autism waiting list. Over the years he found things increasingly difficult (predominantly fitting in socially), which led to trauma on a regular basis, possibly exacerbating things.

Hopefully we will get some answers in the coming months. I'm glad I'm not a psychologist, it would drive me bonkers!

Well my brother is a narc and I needed quite a while to figure it out. There might be some overlap, but also many differences. He had severe ADHD as a child.

He’s constantly lying, even about little things. I probably had never really a conversation with him where he wasn’t lying, especially when he thinks it’s to his advantage.

He’s constantly jealous and when he notices someone else achieved something, he has to make them look small. He also did this to me several times.

He’s bragging a lot. Not constantly, but sometimes it’s annoying.

He can be quite cruel in a way and then nice and superficial charming in the next.

When he enters a room, he is every bodies darling. He’s quite charming in a way and knows how to present himself to get what he wants.

Those aren’t traits I usually see in autistics.

This thread is interesting to me because I am a narcissistic person. I like that the article quotes Sam Vaknin, because I found his work extremely helpful in coming to better understand my own experience.

I was the single child of a narcissistic single parent and entered adulthood under the impression that empathy is a hoax, or that people are just pretending to care about others when in reality they're being possessive of others. My upbringing led to my confusing love and praise. Consequently, I thought the way to be liked was to be a "good enough object", something worthy of praise. As a teen, I joked that "my ego is my primary erogenous zone" and it was really only halfway a joke. My grandiosity came from wanting to see myself as praiseworthy; by turning myself into a godlike entity in my own mind I was able to live with a functional facsimile of self-respect. By experiencing grandiose delusion I was able to reinforce this illusion of my own superiority in a way that let me live with myself.

Up until the last few years, I was largely blind to my own emotional experience. My favorite story to tell involves taking a public speaking class. I gave a speech during which I felt confident, told jokes, etc. However, the teacher and my classmates pointed out that I was quaking in fear, and that my voice was wavering the entire time. I was so detached from my own emotional life that I hadn't even noticed!

Naturally, since I had little connection with my own emotional state, I struggled with empathy. How can feel others' emotions with them if I can't even feel my own? Emotional empathy didn't come naturally to me. Actually, I found that cannabis led to my being able to feel empathy - when I was watching TV, it was amazing that I could suddenly care about the characters' struggles in a new way rather than merely finding the plot of an episode interesting. Of course, this was a problem because I so lusted for that feeling of empathy that I struggled with addiction for some time.

Nowadays, I try to be a decent person to others and am under the impression it's working. I meditate and study philosophy. I try to be aware of my feelings and don't use others as emotional punching bags. I don't think I can shake my egomania. It might be nested too deeply in my personality, but I can at least see it as a silly trap that I'm caught in and laugh at myself for it. I am still quite squeamish about mentioning NPD to anyone.

I still habitually do the whole "superficial charm" thing but it's exhausting and being expected to mask in that way makes me resentful. I used to lie all the time, but stopped after realizing that I was lying because it felt good to lie - like justice was being done. I wasn't telling stories the way they actually happened, but felt like I was righting some cosmic wrong by telling them the way they "should have happened". I had to realize how silly that was and get in the habit of asking myself, "Is this actually true?" in order to break the lying habit. I do still crave being admired. I don't know that it's realistic that I can break the hold my self-image has over me.

Frankly, I haven't looked into autism enough to distinguish it from my experience. The AQ puts me in autism territory, for what that's worth. I have found it most helpful to conceive of NPD as a variant of CPTSD, and gradiosity as a defense mechanism which tries to block out chronic shame. I can at least say, however, that I've gotten along well with autistic people. Maybe it's because of some similarity in thought patterns, maybe it's because of less of a need for masking, possibly it's both.

Not Sam Vaknin.

I really cannot with that guy he is very bloody annoying.

He only rose to fame because of Richard Grannon. Richard even said he ignores him because he's just after supply.

Narcissists simply do not understand what empathy or compassion is and they don't care to know about it either, they are only focused on themselves. You cannot compare a personality disorder with something genetic.

Many autistic people try to help each other genuinely, narcissists just bounce off each other to use each other.

Not only that but Narcissists SEEK OUT autistic people on purpose because we can be easily abused and robbed from our kindness. I have seen it many times sadly.

The difference is Narcissists can fit in with NTs very easily, they basically are NTs with their empathy/compassion part of the brain removed. They only understand a few emotions, mainly the only one they feel is anger otherwise they are basically dead inside.

I really don't believe in being nice to these people as they are predators by default. Many psychologists have said there is no cure for narcissism. Yes it's a mental condition but it's not one anyone can help with, as 3 months later after treatment they always revert back.

I get wanting to feel empathetic towards their condition but no, doing that means letting your guard down and narcissists are not here to be nice to anyone. Whatever has happened to them to make them like that is very sad yes, but it's not worth ever getting involved with one ever. All you can do is grieve the time they didn't have the condition and move on because they will do something to you eventually as that is their condition unfortunately.

Swiftly avoid them and don't let them feed you rubbish about them being similar to us, they're the ones who give us a bad name when they get mis-diagnosed because everyone suddenly thinks we're uncaring bastards when actually they have full blown NPD and their psychologist didn't know how to diagnose it properly.

Well I'm heck sure PDs have nothing to do with cognitive strengths and weaknesses, nor it affects learning but their "attitude" towards it.

Nor their sensory worlds and comorbidities -- unless that's the root of trauma and the reason of receiving the lack of empathy from others.


I myself have issues that seem like NPD.
In reality, it's this emotional shite I've been struggling since age 6 and I still don't know where it damn came from.

My emotions and my conscious will - they are not congruent.
For some reason, something just happened to me around that age, being willfully trying not to be emotional.

But lo and behold -- that never came true.
It's even worse. And still fighting it because of that. Other factors do not help.
So half the time I woke up very irritated and just coping with crap that I still barely understand -- all I know is that autism couldn't explain it.

It is still the root of my stupid reactions though. Reactions that will make me like a fricking brat; basically acting like a narcissist. I hate it.

All those reactions are NOT CONSCIOUS. NOT BY CHOICE.
It's like a stupid reflex, it's like an unwanted program that I have no idea where the stupid code is so I could delete it.
And I fricking hate, hate, HATE it.

Then when I'm not coping with any damn crap as soon as I wake up? Gaining executive functions?
Suddenly I have "more empathy". More sociable, more reliable. Actually acting, thinking and feeling like MY AGE

No more accusing me a liar for being forgetful or not being able to use the damn right words and wording.
Also not feeling like some gullible scapegoat that needed to be lynched -- I feel so free that there's do much in this world that I wanna do.

THEN -- THEN IT STOPPED A WEEK OR LESS. It's also increasingly getting rarer too.
As if -- I'm lying to myself??? Am I deceiving myself??? Was that an episode or something???

Sooo.... WTF?
The heck is the point of SEEING THE REAL ME TEMPORARILY?? Give me false hope???



Hahahaha...
Sorry about the post.
I'm tired.

Tired of myself. Dealing with... THAT.

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The article overlooks some very fundamental differences in the development of ASD (a neuro-developmental condition) and NPD (trauma/abuse/attachment condition), as well as serious differences in how the similarities play out behaviourally.

Anyone who has been on the receiving end of these behaviours from a textbook malignant narcissist will understand. These individuals will go out of their way to manipulate, coerce, intimidate and groom whoever they need to to get what they want, and they have an innate sense of both the social mechanics required to reach these ends and the vulnerabilities of those who stand in the way. Skills that people with ASD can only dream about.

It makes me sick to think that anyone would consider these conditions related, which is not to disparage those with NPD. These individuals really do deserve sympathy; they are deeply insecure to their core and forever chasing the love, validation and attachment they needed when young but missed, and they will never ever get it. I can understand how the conditions can look superficially similar though unfortunately...