Schizophrenic Spectrum Disorders?

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There are many professionals who believe both schizotypal and schizoid personality disorders can be classified as "schizophrenic spectrum disorders". Individuals with both of these disorders occasionally go on to develope schizophrenia (which would likely entail "positve signs" of schizophrenia like hallucinations, delusions, disorganized thinking, etc...), but I believe that is more common among those with schizoptypal pd.


I have been dx-ed with schizoptypal pd on four out of the six of the neuropsych evals i've taken. I always felt the characteristcs of schizoid pd fit me a little better and I was finally dx-ed with schizoid pd (with schizotypal and avoidant features) on the most recent neuropsych eval I had. I have never been formally dx-ed with AS though I also exhibit most, if not all, the "classic" signs of NLD/NVLD. Supposedly....my eye contact and non-verbal expressions/communications are too "good" to warrant an AS dx. I would say this depends on the circumstances i'm in, but in the clinical setting, I guess my eye contact/non-verbal expressions seem fairly normal. At any rate....this is what I was told after taking the ADOS in the autism research study I was supposed to participate in at the University of Pittsburgh. I was rejected as a study participant largely, if not entirely, because my eye contact and non-verbal communications were too "UnAsperger's-like".

The neuropsychs who've actually tested me said nothing about my eye contact/non-verbal expressions having anything to do with why they did not dx-ed me with AS. Rather, they told me I did not exhibit the stereotyped and repetative pattern of interests, behaviors and routines common among those with AS/ASD's. I disagree with this again, but i'm not the one making the diagnosis.

Anyway....according to one psychologist and one psychiatrist i've seen, I also exhibit "psychotic signs". The psychiatrist, at least, claimed I exhibited psychotic signs because I reported bodily illusions (mostly during panic attacks) mainly in my head and chest areas. First of all....brief reactive psychosis is occasionally experiened by those with schizoid and schizoid pd during times of stress. I would say a panic attack qualifies as a "time of stress". Also...I would say brief psychotic episodes are fairly common among individuals who have panic attacks in the first place. The flight/fight response is often activated during panic attacks and psychotic signs may occur during panic attacks because of this.

The psychiatrist decided to prescribe Zyprexa for me. This is a powerful atypcial antipsychotic drug and I couldn't tolerate it. Even half the prescribed dosage knocked me out for twelve hours and I felt like a zombie during my waking hours. In any case, I have not had too many panic attacks since I cut out all caffeine intake several years ago. Furthermore....nothing has been said about "psychotic signs" on any of the actual neuropsychological evaluations i've undergone.


Both schizoid and schizotypal pd seems pretty common among those with a neurocognitive profile in which the major NLD/NVLD traits are evident. Considering the similarities between AS and both of these cluster A "odd or eccentric" personality disorders AND NLD, I don't understand why NVLD+Schizoid/Schizotypal Pd's isn't just seen as a subtype of Asperger's. There is likely a common etiology for one thing. Furthermore, a lack (or a mild manifestation of a few AS characteristics) of a few common AS characteristics while exhibiting many of the other major ones should not render an AS diagnosis unwarranted IMO.

Dr. Theodore Millon has proposed four subtypes of schizoid personality disorder:


-languid schizoid—including depressive features
-remote schizoid—including avoidant, schizotypal features
-depersonalised schizoid—including schizotypal features
-affectless schizoid—including compulsive features


It would seem to me that I exhibit traits of ALL these subtypes. I have been chronically depressed/dysthymic for most of my adult life. I also experience many compulsions and I was recently dx-ed with schizoid pd with avoidant and schizotypal features. I find some of Millon's proposals interesting and I have for quite some time now. We discussed his proposed "aggressive-sadistic personality disorder" many years ago in my abnormal psychology class in college. I think there is some validity to this personality disorder and it includes many characteristics which would sharply differentiate it from anti-social personality disorder.


I'm also wondering if both of these personality disorders really aren't just the common socio-behavioral and emotional manifestations of the NLD syndrome. If so....these disorders would largely stem from a neurological source rather than from some environmentally-based psychological trauma or something. Many with schizotypal/schizoid pd also exhibit mild cognitive deficts as well (usually milder than those often associated with schizophrenia) and NLD/NVLD can be classified as a neurocognitive disorder. Thus....I would guess many diagnosed with schizoid/schizotypal pd really do have the neurological abnormalities (white matter abnormalities, according to most professionals) associated with NLD. Many probably haven't been told they exhibit the characteristics of NLD/NVLD since many psychologists (irresponsibly IMO) diagnose people with these personality disorders without performing any significant neuropsychological tests.

The symptoms of NLD differ from schizophreniform spectrum disorders, as an NLVD often tends to hinder the right side of the brain. From what I remember, the left hemisphere, the prefrontal cortex, and the limbic system, the area that involves memory and emotions, are widely affected. In rare cases such as the instance of January Scholfield and Rebbeca Stansil (I had to go onto Google to figure out who that little girl that Jani knows was...I'm terrible with names), schizophrenia can form by the misformation of neurons and cells at a young age in uterum. Most of the time, though, schizophrenia doesn't form at a young age. NVLD, however, forms in uterum and affects mostly the right hemisphere and certain synapses that process visual information, however clockwork their eyesight is. NVLD, as schizophrenia, may worsen with age, but unlike schizophrenia, NVLD has no treatment aside from early intervention, maximizing their verbal strengths and talents, and medication to suppress anxiety (sorry if this is contradictory). Unlike in most cases of schizophrenia, most NLVD patients actually surpass most children of their age group in vocabulary and verbal achievement, although language pragmatics may be difficult. I'm unsure if mathematical or spatial ability is affected in any form of schizophrenia (haven't looked it up yet; most of the stuff I know about this is patched together from fifth grade through seventh grade researching, so I haven't really looked at schizophrenia yet, unless a Parents magazine article counts), but it often affects expressive language development. The symptoms of schizophrenia and NVLD that do overlap are the gross motor skill difficulties and possible interpersonal problems, NVLD's probably stemming from lack of understanding social cues and schizophreniform spectrum's lack of contact to reality and other humans.

Hope this clears anything up!

I dont agree. I think schizoidia is related to autism, whereas Schizophrenia is a different disorder alltogether, affecting the frontal lobe. Of course, a person can have both Schizophrenia and Autism at the same time, but they are not the same thing.

Aren't those PERSONALITY disorders? That would mean they aren't present from birth, so I don't think it is related to Asperger's although they can be misdiagnosed.

Yes, of course they are personality disorders per current clinical understanding.

Nonetheless....I believe that, often enough, they have roots in things neurological.

The socio-emotional and behavioral manifestations of these personality disorders may not be evident until at least early adolescence. I still believe the neurological characteristics which often co-exist with these pd's are present from birth though. The pd's themselves likely manifest as a fairly common human reaction to the environments the people with neurological disorders like NVLD are exposed to.

Since NVLD is probably not all that different from AS (if different at all) and both have at least some similar neurological origins, i'd say the same holds true for AS.

I think I know a difference in NVLD from Asperger's: in NVLD, there is actually an impairment in the right hemisphere, while in Asperger's, the impairment may not be present. Second, I think there COULD be personality differences from someone with Asperger's and someone with NVLD, in which the social aspect is, from what I've seen over the internet (correct me if sound mean or biased---I'm working on not diagnosing or obsessing over diseases), only impaired by social immaturity and lack of pragmatic language understanding. Asperger's is only mild, and if there is an impairment, it's from talking about obsessions too much. There is also an impairment in most abstract skills, and, unlike in some books I've read, there is not usually an impairment in abstract reasoning or mathematics in Asperger's.

I'm sorry, I'm hyper!

Oh, and I hope you don't mind me posting here!

I find the whole NVLD/Asperger's thing very confusing. I'm diagnosed with Asperger's, and socially impaired (beyond just immaturity, anyhow.) I don't see why you're saying there isn't an impairment in speech in Asperger's beyond talking about interests-- I just looked up pragmatic language disorder and I seem to fit the bill as well as any other person with Asperger's probably does. But my weakness is with math and numbers.

This just makes me think they are the same thing because of the overlap. Nobody seems to be able to draw a line symptom or presentation wise that I've seen.

buryuntime & KissOfMarmaladeSky~




Scroll down to the chart at the bottom of the page in this article:


http://www.nldline.com/yvonna.htm

While I believe many things in here are accurate in regards to distinctions between AS and NLD, I take issue with many others and we can discuss all that later possibly. I still believe AS and NLD are disorders with a common, or very similar, neurological etiology and any symptomatic differences between them are largely individualistic.


buryuntime wrote:

This chart may not be perfect, but it's the closest thing i've come across in terms of what you're talking about here.

Everything's a spectrum, therefore everyone has a little of it! It's like AIDS... everyone's got it.


My son's dad thinks I have schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder. I actually fit the bill; it's shocking. I don't have hallucinations or delusions (though he thinks I have delusions), but I fit the rest of the description in the DSM!


Oh, and Zyprexa made me eat all day. I was on 5-15 mg.


Once they profiled my personality and it said my personality profile was more likely to have schizotypical disorders.

Not everyone has AIDS.

Watch Team America. It's the best satire I have ever seen.