Is this cyclothymia or just life?

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I have depression evident since early childhood. The highest recommended dosage of antidepressants puts me at a workable level. However I have periods when I feel out of it, foggy, depressed and everything feels like too much effort. Then I will have a period when I feel alert and capable and purposeful. These last for days at a time. Neither mood state is extreme but it definitely is noticeable. Is this cyclothymia? There is no specific incident that would explain the onset of either mood. Is this just what people go through naturally or do some people feel one way all the time unless a specific circumstance precipitates it?

That really sounds like an exact description of cyclothymia. I have a mood disorder myself, and I also have the feeling where my moods will shift without any obvious reason. It is good that your antidepressant is working for you.
Oh, and yes that is just life.

What I meant by "just life" is does everyone experience this? I don't think everyone has cyclothymia. Thanks for responding though. I was curious because what I've read about cyclothymia talks about periods of hypomania and the description sounds a bit more "up" than how I feel during these periods. Simply put, sometimes I can think clearly and do things and sometimes (usually) I can't or am limited in my ability.

No, I don't think everyone experiences this.
One thing I have noticed about mood disorders in my readings and in my experience, is that a lot of people will experience a lot more depressive symptoms than hypomanic/manic symptoms. Ultimately, it comes down to not just a label but how well your symptoms are controlled. The other thing to consider is that if you also happen to have ASD than your symptoms will look different. I wish I could be more helpful.

So, when you say "everything feels like too much effort," I read that neurobiologically as "you have to use up more nutrients on your brain to give it the exercise it needs." See, just like if someone was in a car accident and their leg broke, it takes rehab in order to get your strength back. There's no real way to get better without that feeling (which is why they have to keep giving you higher and higher doses).

From a Diagnostic Psychology point-of-view, all knowing what name to give the way you personally feel (asperger's, bipolar, depression, cyclthymia, etc...) does is lump you into gigantic categories, and maybe give you a drug that "kind of, sort of, sometimes works, but also makes your kidneys feel like you were just kicked by someone with boots for 5 hours, or some other such miserable side-effect). It doesn't really help (assuming you wrote this because you want help and dislike having to keep increasing your doses).

Also, your question "is this just what people go through naturally...?" is impossible to answer without knowing you, because no two people's brains develop exactly the same (even identical twins). But there are some Evolutionary Psychology theories which say that feeling depressed/detached/empty/etc... is just your body's natural way of protecting itself from danger (just like animals in a jungle), and that symptoms get worse and require drugs only when other people make you feel like you're a freak (because you feel different than them, so you don't like yourself anymore because you're viewed as not "normal."). I happen to agree with this theory.

So in order to reply to this post properly, I'll need to know some things about you which determine how your brain developed. Oh, btw, I'm a grad student studying "Cognitive Developmental Neuropsychology" (which is just a fancypantsy way of saying "being able to hear the voice inside your head that talks to you when you're between the ages of 3 and 13-ish), so I have to know the levels of psychological distortion you endured as a child (and by that, I mean things like....):

1) How much stress did your mother endure in the 9 months she was pregnant with you? Because even as a fetus, this has a strong effect on which genes "turn on or off," as well as lower parts of your brain which process fear.

2) What was the first few years of your life like? Even though the only memory you may have of them is from looking at old pictures or videos, your brain still remembers (unconsciously, in the hippocampus). Were you treated gently and carefully, or were your parents verbally/physically/sexually abusive to you or each other? Did you even have two parents? See, this is the period in which part in your limbic system -- aka: the part that controls, amongst other things, how afraid you are of the world-- decides how happy or sad should be when you wake up) )?

3) You say you have been depressed since early childhood. Could you tell me stories of those memories? What were years 4 through 18 like as far as how stressed you felt as a kid to feel "cool" or "smart" or "popular" or "hot" or "__insert terribly vague terms teenagers use that gave you a feeling in every part of your body that you were a worthless human being unless these people accepted you for who you were/are?" Did being depressed make it difficult to have good friends?

4) What kind of neighborhood(s) did you grow up in (in terms of stress levels and quality of the air)? Was it dirty and polluted? Were you afraid to walk during the night? During the afternoon? Afraid someone would break in? All this stress adds up, and tells your brain how much energy to use on feeling scared or "sad," (which is just another way of saying "you used up all your energy on worrying so that you don't have the strength to be happy). Because happiness means that you have to use a lot of calories when you're stressed because all your higher brain is trying to overpower your lower brain.

5) Did the adults in your life answer the questions you had? Did they think you were "annoying" for "bothering them?" Were you sometimes scared to ask teachers and/or family a question because they would call you "weird" or "stupid" for asking (having questions answered is what helps your prefrontal cortex develop in a healthy way with emotions). Basically, the more afraid you are to ask a question, the less answers you get (because you don't ask them, durrr ;P ). The less answers you get, the more confused. The more confused, the more exhausted. The more exhausted, the more depressed (and on and on and on until you just wanna start sleeping underneath the bed instead of on top of it).

6) Were you raised in a religion that focuses on peace and the attitude of: "everybody sins except __insert name of God here__, and since none of us are __insert same name here__, let's just all try to be nice and help each other, okay?" Or were you raised in a religion that makes you TERRIFIED to "sin" so you don't "GET TORTURED BY SATAN WHILE BURNING IN FIRE FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER FOR ALL ETERNITY!! !! BWAAAHAAAAHAA!! !" This directly effects the chemicals in your brain which deal with rewards (dopamine), and makes your neurons decide that avoiding this scary thing is more important than feeling happy (because happiness might be a sin!). Religious-induced fear is a huge, but rarely talked about problem in the Psychological field because it offends so many people (mainly those who own guns), but it's very real and neurologically provable with brain scans.

7) What is your current age (specific parts of your prefrontal cortex have not fully developed until around age 25, so this is very important to consider too)?

Could you give examples of what a "workable level" means to you now? Do you have a job? What kind of job do you have? Do you enjoy it? Do you go to school? Are you learning what you want to learn? Do you like where you live? What specific things make you feel at your lowest when you think of them? (EX: At my lowest, a "workable level" meant having to drink a few shots of 120 proof whiskey for breakfast to tolerate working a customer service job where 97% of the people took every frustration of their life out on me).

Sorry for the giant homework assignment, but otherwise, I'd be giving you a completely worthless answer that will stand no chance of helping you in any way.

x~
eric

Interesting questions. I will get back to you after my nap. I need naps to function.

OK-I'm 54 to put things into context
I know that my mother had pneumonia when I was in-utero. I also had pneumonia myself when I was 18 months old. I am the 4th out of 5 children. My younger brother and I were not planned. My father, who I believe had AS did not handle stress well and had a verbally explosive temper. The thing he didn't notice one day would send him into a foaming rage the next.

My earliest memories are feelings of worthlessness and of being a burden to my family. I think perhaps this is because I was a bedwetter and the stress this placed on my mother's workload was made apparent. The professional wisdom of the time was that I was just doing it to get attention and that I was to be punished. So I was punished for doing something that was out of my control. I was not punished physically by the way. There is one incident I know of (but do not remember) that could have been damaging. My mother told me when I was 2 and my grandmother was visiting she overheard my grandmother telling me that if I didn't do what she asked that she would take me away and never let me see my family again. Yeah, she was awful. My mother never confronted her but told my father who confronted her weakly. I know from my mother that I had suicidal ideation at age 5. I remember seeing a picture of the monk who committed suicide by self immolation during the Viet Nam War. I crawled into my father's lap and said I thought it would be best for the family if I did that. So years of therapy later I can intellectually say I am a worthy person but it's like my bones tell me no one could possibly value me. It's like my mind tells me one thing and my body tells me another. I had two active parents who were very alert to any misbehavior. It took me a while to realize that sometimes people just dump on you because of their own issues. If I told my father someone was mean to me, the first thing out of his mouth was "I wonder what you did". If I behaved inappropriately, once I was too old to be spanked, I was punished by the "silent treatment". My first 6 years were spent in a rural area where I only had my brothers and sister to play with. When we moved to the suburbs I was lucky to have a bunch of kids my own age and was able to get to know them. I was never able to approach people for friendship but was able to be a part of a group (although quiet and passive) if someone else made the overtures. These friend saved me from absolute isolation during my school years. I was pretty much the invisible mouse in school otherwise.
My father was an agnostic and my mother an active church member but definitely not a fundamentalist. I've heard her say Jesus' father was probably a Roman soldier which is kind of ironic coming from a church elder.
I felt ignored and was continually interrupted when I tried to speak.
I was not diagnosed with depression until age 35 and not with inattentive add until I was 45.

I'm not sure if what I posted about really is about a mood disorder but more that just processing daily life wears me out and for some reason it wears me out less for brief periods.. I've assumed depression for some time but I'm not sure. I'm in a low skilled job but it allows me a lot of flex time and requires no concentration. My son is diagnosed with Asperger's. I think I might be PDD-NOS. I hope this rambling disjointed narrative was helpful. I tried to answer point by point but sometimes the answers start to flow into one another so I gave up. I think 2 people can go through pretty much the same life experiences and come out completely differently because of their particular natures.

I don't think you have Cyclothymia because anti-depressants do not work for Cyclothymia, unless combined with a mood stabilizer. Anti-depressants used alone can trigger dangerous manic episodes and rapid mood cycling in Cyclothymia and Bipolar disorders. They are also often ineffective and make Bipolar worse. In Cyclothymia anti-depressants do not work because Cyclothymic moods shift too rapidly, if you are in a depressed mood when you start the anti-depressants by the time they kick in you will have cycled into a hypomanic mood and the anti-depressants will excacerbate it!

It sounds like you have depression not Cyclothymia, Cyclothymia is more extreme than what you describe. (I have it)

I am new here (but not by any means new to mood disorders!!). Earlier in my life I experienced severe depression which, through meds and therapy I've been able to alleviate. About three years ago I started working with a new psychiatrist and she diagnosed me with Cyclothymia. My understanding of Cyclothymia is that its a cousin to Bi-polar without the severe mood drops. As I have come to understand the way I function the diagnosis does make sense. I have always just thought I was high strung but now I understand that the excessive energy and racing thoughts is more than just that. My experience is that I can get done in an hour what might take someone else several. I get extremely racy in groups of people and am often exhausted after certain experiences because I am so racy while experiencing them. My brain goes very fast processing information. If you met me in a social situation you might think I was on speed!! I tried Lithium but it made feel like a zombie. I use Klonopin to help with raciness and some holistic solutions such as limiting my time in certain situations, not taking too much on at a time, etc. I hope this helps some!

Yes exactly!

Looks like I have cyclothymia too. Visited the doctor last week and he confirmed my self diagnosis but he says I'm also clinically depressed too so have medication for the depression and medication to stabilise the mood swings. When I'm up I'm extremely enthusiastic and communicative and full of energy and get lots of work done. I can hardly sleep at nights and sometimes get out of bed at 2 AM unable to sleep and do more work for several hours. I am extremely creative when 'up'.

The mood can change quite suddenly though and I become miserable, lacking in energy and not wanting to do anything and not finding anything stimulating or interesting. I'm also much less communicative and tend to withdraw from people around me; I also tend to expect the worst and have an increased distrust in people.

Being 'up' actually feels very good and I enjoy the dynamism and positive outlook it gives me. Being 'down' is awful, combined with depression it takes me right down to suicidal thoughts - but the following day I can be high again!

The confirmation of my self diagnosis by my general doctor isn't maybe as rigorous as that of a professional shrink, but I have no reason to doubt what he says. I don't think I have bi-polar because I'm missing some of the key symptoms.

Comments anyone? Does this sound like cyclothymia? I've been like this since my early twenties. I'm now 51.

Well, I have come to the conclusion that I do not have cyclothymia. I have major depressive disorder held at bay with the highest dose of antidepressants recommended and that keeps me about even with somewhat regular dips into a mild depression. Sometimes the fog lifts completely, It's almost as if my inattentive ADD issues lift for a while, but I am in no way high or manic. I am just subject to periodic normalcy.