ASD Vs Schizophrenia

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Okay as you all know I've struggled between trying to distinguish between ASD and Schizophrenia on my own. I see my doctor on wednesday and you know I've compiled a list of symptoms. I've decided to put them here, with answers (And I'll forewarn you that there are a lot) so if you care to read and give advice as to what you think I might lean more towards than feel free to share your thoughts and opinions.

Autism/Aspergers

Social
Very little or no eye contact.
(Self explanatory. I look anywhere but the eyes, typically off to the side, at their chest which is bad if it's a female or up at the ceiling, just anywhere but the eyes.)
Resistance to being held or touched.
(Unless I am prepared and willing. I tense up if it catches me by surprise and I often feel smothered and feel as if my space is being intruded upon)
Responds to social interactions, but does not initiate them.
(Simple. You talk to me and I'll talk to you. Otherwise I'm not talking because if you don't talk to me, I assume you don't care to.)
Difficulty understanding jokes, figures of speech or sarcasm.
(Sometimes people say mean jokes and find them funny rather than using normal funny jokes. I take mean jokes literally.)
Difficulty understanding the rules of conversation.
(I didn't know conversations had rules.)
Difficulty understanding group interactions.
(I just don't know what to do in a group. Normally I just shy away and sit there like a stone.)
Difficulty maintaining friendships
(This is mostly due to my paranoia which often is me reading hidden meanings into comments and actions.)
Gives spontaneous comments which seem to have no connection to the current conversation.
(Although very rare if I attempt to reach out socially I'll say the first thing that comes to mind.)
Seems unable to understand another’s feelings.
(I'm not sure if it's that I don't understand or if it's that I just don't care. Often I misread feelings. Like if my BF is trying to care for me I see it as trying to control me rather than trying to care for me.)
Unable to read the motives behinds peoples’ actions.
(I often question peoples intentions and motives. Again related to the paranoia but I tend to always trust people in the beginning and then I start reading into things and start looking for reasons to distrust them and then I get confused because I can't find the proof I am looking for.)
Finds it easier to socialize with people that are older or younger, rather than peers of their own age.
(As a child I got along with younger kids. As an adult I get along with older people.)
Difficulties in empathizing with others.
(Emotionally when someone is angry and upset I feel nothing, emotionally numb. I might feel fear if it's extreme anger but otherwise I feel nothing and end up having to pretend to feel and act out ways in which I know people would act in certain situations.)
Unaware of/disinterested in what is going on around them.
(In social settings I tend to tune everything out, feeling like I don't belong and that attempting to try and fit in would be a fail so I try to get lost within my own mind.)
Talks excessively about one or two topics (dinosaurs, movies, etc.).
(If I find someone I am comfortable with and I get in a very talkative mood I can be like this at times, talking about the only few interests that I have.)
Minimal acknowledgement of others.
(I don't acknowledge others unless they acknowledge me first.)
overly trusting and often comes across as naive.
(As I said above, I easily trust at first but then down the road I become paranoid.)
Committing a social act which may be inappropriate but they are unaware of it or it's consequences.
(Well one time my BF's Mom got her car stuck in the mud and I found it funny and started laughing about it even though she was cussing me out as the consequence, if that counts.)

Language
Speech is abnormally loud or quiet.
(I often speak to quiet.)
Repeats last words or phrases several times. Makes verbal sounds while listening (Light Echolalia).
(If I am talking to someone I'll constantly repeat myself until they respond to me. If I hear a phrase I like on television I'll get overly excited and repeat it outloud.)
Uses a person’s name excessively when speaking to them.
(Applies to the above. I'll repeat a persons name as well as repeat the statement again and again until they respond to me or until I get their attention.)
Often talks to himself.
(I will hold conversations with myself out loud such as: "I want ice cream." --- "You should go get some ice cream.")

Behaviors
Obsessions with objects, ideas or desires.
(Obsessed with objects of nostalgia or of great sentiment and obsessed with hobbies and interests.)
Ritualistic or compulsive behavior patterns (Tapping Foot/Knee).
(I tap my foot and my knee constantly.)
Play is often repetitive.
(I participate in online text based role play and I do this on a daily basis, it's part of my 'routine' and I often get stressed when I can't do it or be there on time or there isn't anyone around to do it with.)
Many and varied collections.
(I collect items or information for nostalgia.)
Perfectionism in certain areas.
(My role play has to be perfect and top notch.)
Unusual attachment to objects.
(Attached to objects of nostalgia.
Feels the need to fix or rearrange things.
(House decor has to be perfect and symmetrical)
Transitioning from one activity to another is difficult.
(Transitioning from a fun activity to a productive, work related activity is difficult.)
Difficulty attending to some tasks.
(Work related activities.)
Fine motor skills are developmentally behind peers (hand writing).
(Bad handwriting)
Extreme fear (phobia) for no apparent reason.
(Fear of drama, anger and hostility)
Verbal outbursts.
Yes
Unexpected movements (running out into the street).
(When emotionally high and unmedicated has a tendency to run off down the street)
Difficulty sensing time (Knowing how long ten minutes is.)
(Time often seems longer than it really is when it comes to waiting and time often seems shorter than it really is when it comes to activities.)
Difficulty waiting for their turn (such as in a line).
(In role play if we are taking turns posting our texts I will sometimes go ahead and post mine out of turn by excitement, often an accident.)
Short attention span.
(Can only pay attention to one thing at a time. Can't multi task, often over looks details and easily becomes bored with certain things.)

Emotions
Sensitivity to sounds, smells or light.
(Sounds and light.)
Difficulty with loud or sudden sounds.
(Yes loud and sudden sounds are harsh and often bad on the nerves.)
Unusually high or (low) pain tolerance.
(Extremely low tolerance for pain.)
Intolerance to certain (food textures), colors or the way they are (presented on the plate) (one food can't touch another).
(Food can't touch each other.)
Desires comfort items (blankets).
(Blankets)
Laughs, cries or throws a tantrum for no apparent reason.
(Sometimes.)
Resists change in the environment (people, places, objects).
(People and places. Can't tolerate change in the way things are in life. Can deal with change in furniture.)
An emotional incident can determine the mood for the day - emotions can pass very suddenly or are drawn out for a long period of time.
(Sometimes, often it can.)
Tends to either tune out or break down when being reprimanded.
(Becomes very defiant in situations of conflict then breaks down and goes into a very tuned out yet submissive state of mind.)
Calmed by external stimulation - soothing sound, brushing, rotating object, constant pressure (Soft Music).
(Music, often that which fits the mood.)
May need to be left alone to release tension and frustration.
(Yes)


Schizophrenia

Part 1
Failing to make eye contact
(Self explanatory.)
Hallucinations. This means hearing voices or other sounds that aren't there or seeing things that don't exist.
(Hearing keys jingling, someone coming in the door, name being called over music with ear buds in ears, music down the street. Very unsure and questionable)
Delusions (unshakeable beliefs that aren't true).
(Very paranoid of people. Often mistrusting of them and their motives. Sometimes thinking they are conspiring with others to humiliate and make a fool out of me. I read hidden meanings into things they say and do and often act out on my assumptions. My paranoia is always linked to people that I know though, not anything to out there.)
Lack of emotional expression.
(Sometimes I can laugh and smile if it's with people I can relate to and if it's about something that I care about but other times, most of the time my face is like a stone and my insides, my emotions feel like nothing. I feel more for myself than I do for others.)
Decline in reasoning and memory abilities.
(Bad memory, lack of specific details, imaging or moving memories. Mostly only remembering the general feeling of a time. As for reasoning can often become unreasonable and very irrational.)
Severe anxiety.
(Yes)
Inappropriate emotional expressions.
(I sometimes laugh or smile when someone is angry so long as it doesn't affect me in any way. I also often smile when I am feeling negatively and expressing that to someone else. I always try to hide it.)
Preoccupation with delusions.
(Again with the paranoia, I will spend large amounts of time trying to figure out the truth or validate my beliefs.)
Apathy.
(Yes for mostly everyone except for myself and even then sometimes myself.)
A blank, vacant facial expression. An inability to smile or express emotion through the face is so characteristic of the disease that it was given the name of affective flattening or a blunt affect.
(This is true for the most part. I spend a big majority of my life like this unless I fake it.)
Overly acute senses- lights are too bright, sounds are too loud.
(Definitely true.)
Staring, while in deep thought, with infrequent blinking.
(Yes)
Parkinsonian type symptoms- rigidity, tremor, jerking arm movements, or involuntary movements of the limbs.
(Shoulders tremored when we drove by people walking down the street.)
The inability to experience joy or pleasure from activities (called anhedonia)
(Often I go through these periods.)
Sometimes feeling nothing at all
(Yes)
Appearing desireless- seeking nothing, wanting nothing
(Yes)
Feeling indifferent to important events
Yes
Hypersensitivity to criticism, insults, or hurt feelings
(Yes I am easily offended by things like this and often act out in response and want to run away or get away from the person.)
Sudden irritability, anger, hostility, suspiciousness, resentment
(Yes)
Depression- feeling discouraged and hopeless about the future
(Yes)[/b)
Low motivation, energy, and little or no enthusiasm
[b](Most of the time.)
Rapidly changing mood- from happy to sad to angry for no apparent reason (called labile mood)
(Sometimes.)

Part 2
Replaying or rehearsing conversations out loud- i.e. talking to yourself (very common sign)
(Holding conversations with myself. Often saying something and answering myself. "Do you think he's crazy?" .... "Yes I think he's crazy?")
Finding it difficult to deal with stressful situations
(Low stress tolerance.)
Inability to cope with minor problems
(Again low stress tolerance)
Lack of goal-directed behavior. Not being able to engage in purposeful activity
(Doing fun unproductive activity over boring purposeful productive activity.)
Inappropriate responses- laughing or smiling when talking of a bad event, making irrational statements
(Smiling or laughing when people are angry, so long as it isn't directed at me. Often smiling when feeling negatively about myself and my life when speaking to another about it online, often smiling at online drama even though I hate it.)
Ruminating thoughts- these are the same thoughts that go around and round your head but get you nowhere. Often about past disappointments, missed opportunities, failed relationships.
(Yes. About the past and the current. Involving the paranoid distrust as well.)
Frequent loose association of thoughts or speech- when one thought does not logically relate to the next. For example, "I need to go to the store to buy some band-aids. I read an article about how expensive hair dye is." The need to go to the store to buy band-aids is forgotten.
(Relevant if I am in a hyper active mood or if I am angry.)
Directionless- lack goals, or the ability to set and achieve goals
(Not knowing what to do with myself.)
In conversation you tend to say very little.
(Most of the time unless you very rarely find someone I can relate to and stumble upon a topic I can't shut up about.)
Trouble with social cues- i.e. not being able to interpret body language, eye contact, voice tone, and gestures appropriately. --Often not responding appropriately and thus coming off as cold, distant, or detached.
(Yes)
Difficulty expressing thoughts verbally. Or not having much to say about anything.
(Difficulty expressing myself emotionally to people by voice. I find it easier to do by text with people online)
Difficulty focusing attention and engaging in goal directed behavior
(Yes unless it is made to be fun for me otherwise I get disinterested, bored and lose the want, desire and capability to focus.)

Part 3
Overpowering, intense feeling that people are talking about you, looking at you
(Standing in line at a store I'll feel like the person behind me is staring at me.)
Thinking people are working together to harass you.
(Sometimes.)
Delusions of reference- thinking that random events convey a special meaning to you. An example is that a newspaper headline or a license plate has a hidden meaning for you to figure out. That they are signs trying to tell you something.
(I believe 2012 is possible and that aliens exist. I'm a conspiracy theorist. I watch history channel a lot. Does that count?)
Auditory hallucinations can be either inside the person's head or externally. When external, they sound as real as an actual voice. Sometimes they come from no apparent source, other times they come from real people who don't actually say anything, other times a person will hallucinate sounds.
(sounds of keys jingling, my name being called over the music from my ear buds and music down the street. Could be just a trick of the senses. I'm confused on this.)
inability to sustain attention, and problems with "working memory" (the ability to keep recently learned information in mind and use it right away)
(In role play I can read a persons post and in my response leave things out because I immediately forget some details of their posts of text.)

with schizophrenia aren't you supposed to actually see and hear delusions rather than just think them?

I don't know. I read on wikipedia delusions could include paranoia. The hallucinations...like I've said I am completely on the fence and confused about. Besides aren't delusions and hallucinations two separate things? If they were the same wouldn't they just have one word for it?

Delusion - An idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality.

Hallucination - An experience involving the perception of something not present

There does need to be visual or auditory hallucinations (which is an intregral part of paranoia), and they are the most notable difference between schizophrenia and Asperger's. Just before I got my AS diagnosis, I actually thought I might be mildly schizophrenic; they can seem similar in some people.

If someone has undiagnosed schizophrenia, the very nature of the illness dictates that generally the person is not aware that there is something wrong with their behaviour/thought processes; they assume the problem is outside of themselves, and that their behaviour is appropriate in response.

Of course 2012 is happening. 2011 happened and 2013 will probably also happen.

I know which is why I stated what I did above about the things I've been hearing. I don't know if they are real hallucinations or just tricks of the mind. I am confused on the matter and not sure what to make of it.



I'm not quite sure what you're saying? Are you saying I should be unaware of a problem? Because when my currently undiagnosed "Issue" causes problems that's a pretty big hit on the head that there is a problem.



December hasn't gotten here yet, much less the twenty first of it, two thousand and eleven has no relevance and two thousand and thirteen? Well buddy we'll see but if it does come? I hope next year you'll actually come on message boards to leave some helpful advice instead of leaving smart ass comments that do nothing to help the world. And if you're unable to put your big grown up pants on and do that? Well then I really feel sorry for you.


I came on here hoping for advice and if all anyone is going to do is come on here and degrade me then if anyone is a moderator and sees this then just remove the damn thing and remove any other topic that I've opened because honestly I'm starting to totally lose my faith in humanity anymore.

With auditory hallucinations you physically HEAR The sound. The most common auditory hallucinations are voices. The voices talk to you or about you. They can also comment on your actions. Ideas of reference and delusions of reference is thinking a newspaper is talking and giving you signs. Basically you would collect all the newspapers and see if there is a pattern that you were supposed to find. Delusions can be bizarre at times. Thinking 2012 is the end is not bizarre because it is a belief that many other people and conspiracy theorists have (even though its not true). The Mayans basically think that change is coming not the end of the world. Yes, aliens definitely exist all over the Universe. We can't be alone.... we can't. The government is keeping this secret from us. I know a lot about schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder. I hear voices. Not all the time though as mine are minor compared to others with schizophrenia (well actually schizoaffective disorder). Today I heard a lot though. Sadly right on schedule. What I mean by "right on schedule" is that nearly every October I have mental instability. There was only one in recent history that I didn't. My problems are associated with people's birthdays in my family but can begin months before (this year my psychotic break happened starting in March but didn't get bad enough to be hospitalized until May). There have been years that I had 4 psychotic breaks even with meds. Its the stressors that trigger it and when there is stress its like I am not taking meds at all. It wouldn't matter. Like you I am very oversensitive to stress. I explode. The end of this year is going to be hell because we will have no money left. That is unless a miracle from God Himself helps us. Are you afraid of social situations? Like in social phobia? Or is it more like delusions associated with people? Are you thinking they are going to kill you and you actually prepare for that? My memory has been deteriorating even MORE in the last few weeks. Even things that are "automatic" I am failing to do. Do you ever think people are talking about you? I have that same thing about the music ( since I listen to music all day) is I hear my name being called but I also hear it when no music is going on. Lately the music has been talking to me as well since I hear other things other than the lyrics of the music. Its good that you are going to a doctor soon. So you are seeing him because of autism and schizophrenia? Where did you get this list of symptoms (obviously not your answers but the symptoms themselves)? Do you ever talk in a disorganized way that when you are talking to someone they say, "I don't understand you?" Do you ever just freeze in one position and just stay there for hours (and not be aware of your surroundings)? Does it affect your functioning? I like how you said that "2012 is possible." Of course its possible... we are in it (in cities that is) but what you meant is that "December 21st 2012 the end is possible." What the above person meant about "unaware of their own illness" is they have a lack of insight. Insight is awareness into one's own condition. It is very common for someone with schizophrenia and psychotic disorders in general to have a lack of insight. I don't know the percentages right off.

I have every reason to believe we'll all still be here in 2013. I was actually trying to teach by showing that a writing/construction error was made. When you say 2012 is going to happen, you don't say WHAT will happen in 2012. Sorry, I haven't been following the superstition very closely.

Maybe the auditory hallucinations you have OP are the result of sensory processing issues that can be related to AS. I sometimes mistake noises for voices or think people are saying my name or trying to talk to me when they are having a conversation with themselves that is completely unrelated to me; this happens more when there's background noises, environment has bad acoustics or I hear sounds or talking when I'm not really paying attention to them. I don't have good focus sometimes/I daydream a lot so that may be some of it too

Your post has been very helpful. See I am not trying to claim that I have schizophrenia. In fact as I've said as far as the delusions and hallucinations I am on the fence as in very confused about it. I will admit that comparing the symptoms I have almost nearly all the negative symptoms of schizophrenia and please correct me if I am wrong (In a kind way) but I am lead to believe all the negative symptoms overlap symptoms of ASD. I'll admit that aside from what I've said I haven't had a lot of the positive symptoms of schizophrenia so maybe that is not really the issue. And 2012 was probably a bad example to use but I do have to admit that I don't have any real crazy delusions other than paranoia related to trust issues. I tend to believe people lie to me and then I start obsessing over it and digging for proof, as if I want them to be lying to me which is what I meant by when my issues cause me problems because when I become paranoid about people and speak out about my beliefs it causes problems and I often lose friendships and burn bridges because of it.

I do talk to myself but not to voices in my head. I'll say something to myself in first person and then I'll respond to myself in second person like I'm holding a conversation and playing the role of two people but all the while I know that it's me. As for the voices I guess it makes sense as my boyfriend normally does call out for me sometimes while I'm listening to music to the point where I expect it sometimes. As far as the keys jingling and the door opening like my BF had come home from work when he hadn't, I can't explain it but I guess once incident isn't enough to qualify but in all honesty I would rather fall into the ASD category over schizophrenia if I had to fall in either category.

I am really sorry to hear about all the things that you go through even though I lack feeling it which is another symptom. I lack empathy. When ever someone is upset or hurting I just can't really feel anything. I mean I can feel my own emotional pain but when it comes to outside sources I just don't feel for it most of the time but mentally I am sorry for all of your troubles.



I'm sorry I guess I was just super sensitive to your post as it seemed very insensitive whether that was your intention or not. I just assumed everyone knew the whole meaning of the 2012 thing but it was a bad example to use and I guess it doesn't qualify as a real delusion as it's something less personal and more widespread. I doubt anything will happen either. I use to but as we grow closer to the date I just don't think it will.



So thats possible with ASD to mistake hearing something like that? I know me and my BF went over the questions last night and he seemed to think that I fell more towards ASD than schizophrenia. Like I said I seem to match almost all of the ASD symptoms but then the schizophrenic negative symptoms which I know overlap most of the time and it left me confused. I'm just really searching for answers, for a name because I'm tired of labeling myself as "issues" but I am going to let my psychiatrist be the ultimate judge as she is the professional when it comes down to it.

As for the site where I got the list? http://calgaryautism.com/characteristics.htm That's where I got it. I only took the ones that seemed to apply to me, I didn't take all of them.

You know, it's entirely possible to have both ASD and schizophrenia. It isn't like they're mutually exclusive.

Since I don't know you personally, I'm not going to comment on what diagnosis you should receive.

You mentioned mostly having the negative symptoms of schizophrenia. Schizophrenia requires the positive symptoms. There are a couple personality disorders that include lots of those negative symptoms, Schizoid Personality & Schizotypal Personality. Those disorders or those symtoms of those disorders can develop as a result of Aspergers. I had paranoia & most all those negative schizophrenia symtoms when I was suffering a bad psychic depression due to problems in my life some of which were related to Aspergers. GP said it was either depression with schizophrenia, psychotic depression but most likely bipolar depression. The 1st psych I saw said it was depression & Aspergers. Everyone else I saw after her said it was Schizoid Personality instead of Aspergers & depression & lots of other many diagnoses. I joined WP years latter, learned a lot about AS & got out of the ending states of my depression & I lost many of those negative symptoms. Figuring out a dingoes is more than just going through a checklist of symptoms & matching them; it's a cause and effect thing. Schizophrenia is something people develop; can be OK as a kid but start having problems in puberty or in adulthood. But Aspergers is something people are born with thou the symptoms can appear worse as the person ages. Someteims you or even doctors can see the symptoms & not get the root cause