Psychopathy -- the bad fairy at the neurodiversity ball

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(And yes, I realise it's currently called "Anti-Social Personality Disorder", but it will always be psychopathy to me)

Due to several bad experiences involving psychopathic individuals, I am strongly prejudiced against them -- but I am open to persuasion.

Have you encountered a psychopath? Are you related to one?

Are you, in fact, a diagnosed psychopath yourself?

Share your stories here, and exchange relevant information.

I have encountered a psychopath or maybe he was a sociopath not to certain which. Anyway, he was (and still is) a total A-hole, plus uber egocentric and managed to twist everyone around his little finger, except for me, i saw his true colors from day one. People like that are cruel to specifically chosen people whenever other's aren't there to witness it (usually people who they look at as a treat, example those he/she aren't able to "fool"), then they smooth talk and act polite/kind around everyone else, putting up this fake facade. Then when this person's victim's tries to tell someone close to them about and reveal what he/she really is like, the psychopath will usually have somehow managed to convince them that he/she would never do such a thing, why would he/she do such things since the mentioned act's in such a lovely, genuine and harmless manner while around them.

In my case he made my family turn against me, making it look like i was the one who started fights with him etc. To put it this way sosio's and pshyco's knows exactly what to and how to make sure they get things their way, but hopefully their victim's will be able to outsmart them soon enough. Luckily i managed to break his facade and reveal his true "face" quick enough, before he managed to mess things up to much for the people i care about.

Yes. I have encountered two in my life.

Very charming and capable people. Very brilliant manipulators. They can make you feel special and wonderful. But it's all a performance, for them to get what they want.

At the heart of who they are, there is no conscience. There is no empathy, no remorse.

A horrible diagnosis. And they may constitute 2 - 4% of the population.

Stay away from them at all costs.

Yes, my brother was a psychopath, and he was the member of my family to whom I was closest. While it wasn't his fault, I think he was responsible for a lot of my depression when I was younger since everybody just loved Joe as much as they loathed me. He was so smooth and charming that he could get just about anybody to do anything--except for me, that is. I think what made me so jealous was how we would horribly misuse people and they would go back for more whereas I tried my best to treat people well, and it seemed to get me no place. When he died a junkie at age thirty, I began to reconsider, and figured out where I'm at isn't so bad after all. Not being beloved by everybody isn't so bad after all.

As far as dealing with psychopaths, they can be very nice to be around as long as you are wise to their tricks. But, by all means, beware.

Actually, psychopathy is not quite the same thing as antisocial personality disorder. Antisocial personality disorder focuses mainly on behaviors, but does not look at what's going on underneath, the affective features, which is important for determining if someone is a psychopath.

I believe the DSM-5 now has antisocial personality disorder with psychopathic features, which indicate a lack of fear/anxiety and "a bold and efficacious interpersonal style." As I understand a lot of people with antisocial personality disorder have a lot of anxiety actually, with guilt for their crimes mixed in. However, the specific subtype of psychopath lacks that anxiety (except in direct response to an immediate threat); in addition, they can be shockingly bold in carrying out their immoral and criminal acts. They can get what they want a lot of the time.

From Wikipedia (so not necessarily to be relied upon):

Moreover, isn't calling psychopathy a 'personality disorder' a bit erroneous as a classification? I understood that it was a distinctly-detectable neurotype. I could be wrong on this, but I recall seeing MRI scans that identified psychopathically-typical neurological reactions to given stimuli.

I think it goes lower than lack of remorse of empathy -- again, as far as I understand the matter (and I have studied the area broadly on a strictly amateur level of interest) psychopaths actually experience a neurological/endorphinal pleasure response to perceived suffering and misery, especially when they have played a direct part in bringing it about.

That's a sociopath. Very socially capable, masters of manipulation, no conscience. I was married to one once.

A psychopath is more impulsive and prone to violence.

I know quite a few people who have told me they are psychopaths. I'm not quite sure if they just think or say they are or if they really are but I have talked to these people about their thought process.

The friends I have who have confessed this to me I actually get along with quite well. I think it's because we don't have emotional needs from each other and I am not easily manipulated. They seem to be comfortable having me as someone to express themselves around because I am not bothered by peoples darker thoughts.

I know a girl I am good friends with who told me she's a psychopath lately and I wasn't surprised. She doesn't seem to do anything bad but she also admitted that she could kill the neighbors if someone paid her enough money and it wouldn't bother her.

I would be careful about some of them but the ones I know (and I'm not even sure if they are true psychopaths) seem to just not be able to feel most emotions although they don't seem like problem starters. I wouldn't want to be around someone who likes starting problems for no reason.

I have even noticed traits in myself although I am able to care about people. I am extremely unemotional though and have practically no comprehension of how others feel. I seem to be able to understand people who tell me about their lack of feeling though and in my own perception everyone else seems to overreact and be emotionally unstable. It can be quite irritating to be around which is why I do enjoy the company of people who are not emotional.

There is a big difference between someone who has no feelings and someone who does bad things though.
There is no such thing as bad thoughts. Only bad actions.

Riddle me this: people on the schizophrenia spectrum are often said to have blunted or flat affect, while psychopaths are often said to have deficient affect. What on the earth is the difference between blunted/flat affect and deficient affect?

I was royally duped by a Psychopath. I had never had an experience even remotely close. In fact, my entire life had been relatively free of any negativity at all, until this toxic entity presented himself.

I met him through business, in an office setting. I will spare the details, but I could in fact, write a novel. In the end, he had scammed me for everything I had. My earnings, my clients, my heart and soul, my reputation as an honest, model employee for which I was very proud of, and I lost many other things, both tangible, and otherwise, due to the psychological effects from the encounter/relationship. I had been left an empty shell of myself, and I ruminated in isolation, for 9 straight months. He is the type you read about, that goes to great lengths to present himself as someone entirely different than who is, in reality. I could create a list, a mile long, or more, but I wont. Many of the things he did, in order to keep his facade/show/mask up, were utterly incredible. I mean, you quite possibly wouldn't believe some of the things I could tell you that he did, and he was amazingly good at it.

I was fortunate enough to work with a renowned Psychotherapist who specializes in the area of Personality Disorders, both the disordered as well as their victims. I also did EEG to stop the rapid firing of misplaced chemicals in my brain, and I read and researched, Psychopathy, endlessly. The 2 books I found to be most insightful and incredibly helpful, in gaining knowledge about the Psychopath (both played a huge part in my recovery) were: 'Without Conscience', by Robert Hare and 'The Sociopath Next Door', by Martha Stout. Both recommendations made by my therapist, in case it helps anyone here, to have the aforementioned info. I now volunteer, helping victims/survivors in my spare time.

Oh no, you can't leave us dangling like that now you've got our attention with such an intriguing summary!

Let's have some specific examples of his behaviour, and -- to add to our understanding of the way such individuals go about executing their nefarious plans -- how he managed to present this as acceptable to you (or perhaps how he kept it entirely hidden) while he was going about it.



Really? Are there organisations that specifically deal with the victims of psychopathic behaviour? If so, good on you for putting your experience toward easing the recovery of such individuals (who I'm sure need at least some level of therapy after having been manipulated and exploited so thoroughly). Without 'outing' yourself, can you provide links to such organisations?

When I first read your suggestion, it seemed unlikely to me, but on reflection -- and given that psychopaths tend to (e.g.) go after individual victims on a highly-successive basis; gain access to a group association or acceptance within an individual family; get admitted as members of (and subsequently attaining personal influence within) some other form of collective enterprise (such as churches and private companies) -- it seems quite possible, indeed even probable, that the number of victims of psychopathic behaviour far exceeds the supposed prevalence of psychopathic individuals in society (which iirc is estimated to lie between one and two per cent of the population).

More details, please.

As per your request for additional information, The most efficient/effective way to obtain multiple resources, is to do a quick Google search. There will be several links listed. I do something, along-side the therapist I had seen. I do not work for an organization, however, there is one that I would highly recommend: "Aftermath-Surviving Psychopathy Foundation". It is a program, run by a group of highly regarded professionals within the mental health, forensic psychology and criminal justice fields. most of whom are professors at California State University, Long Beach, which is among the most highly regarded schools in the US, for Forensics and Criminal Justice. This group is committed to supporting victims and survivors of Psychopathy (Psychopaths).


In terms of your request for details of the workings of the Psychopath that I personally encountered, I can assure you that you will find various detailed descriptions, lists of traits, et al, within the books I mentioned, in the comment I posted, that you have quoted.

You began your post, by stating that you have personal experience with Psychopaths. Are you open to sharing those experiences?

Last edited by delaSHANE on 21 Nov 2013, 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well, that's something of a cop-out -- I was hoping for specific personal anecdotes, not generalised observations by unrelated authors.



Oh yes indeed, although you must forgive me (and I am sure you will understand this on a personal basis) if I strip my accounts of any details that might identify me or any of the other individuals involved.

This one's a bit long, because of the way my relationship with (and understanding of) the psychopath in question unfolded quite gradually.

The first was someone with whom I first met in a gay pub. He wasn't unattractive, and made advances on me. Being at a loose end and with an itch to scratch (if you follow my meaning), I agreed to go back to his place (about five miles away). He got me into his car and then said: "You won't be needing your seatbelt. If you do, it means you don't trust me." Since I had no idea of how much alcohol he had drunk (although I naively assumed it would be within the legal limit), and since I was a habitual seatbelt-wearer anyway, I laughed this off and put my seatbelt on. His behaviour changed in an instant. From having been sexually-suggestive and quite charming, he became sarcastic, obnoxious and somewhat aggressive. He then proceeded to rack up quite a long thick line of cocaine on the dashboard and snort it extravagantly, saying it would help him drive better and help get him in the mood. I should have made my excuses and left at this point, but he immediately set off in the general direction of his home.

He drove at unnecessarily high speeds (through a town centre), frequently causing his tyres to squeal while cornering, ignored priority traffic (at roundabouts, for example) leading to slammed brakes and angry hooting, jumped red traffic lights and generally made me wish I had stayed in the pub. In fact, I prayed for a police car to pull him over. Throughout all this, he kept taking his eyes off the road in order to look at me and ask: "Do you feel safe yet?" Eventually our route took us on to a broad tree-lined avenue, and as he once again took his eyes off the road to demand whether I felt safe, the car's left hand wheels (UK driving standards apply) skipped the kerb and began to lose traction on the grass verge, resulting in his loss of driving control and our sudden collision with a tree.

The car was a write-off. I was very lucky, and was able to step out of the wreckage with no more than concussion and shock. He, meanwhile, was pinned in the driver's seat, screaming -- not out of agony but out of anger, mainly accusing me of having caused the crash and how he would make me pay through insurance. The emergency services arrived, he was cut free, and we were both taken to hospital. I was X-rayed (and nothing was found) but while I was waiting for my results, I was able to view my driver being interrogated by the attendant police officers, who suspected him of being over the drink-drive limit. Despite being flat on a bed (due, I subsequently learned, to having sustained two broken arms, a broken leg and whiplash injuries during the crash), he managed repeatedly to prop himself up to scream abuse at them, including threats to have them killed, and refusing to take a breathalyser test because he knew it would be rigged against him.

I left the hospital hoping never to see him again, but fate was not so simple. It turned out (quite unexpectedly) that he was also known to a colleague of mine, who (when I explained what had happened and referred to the driver by name, said: "Oh, him, you want to watch him" and went on to detail an incident in which the driver had felt that he had been personally disrespected by a group of Asian youths in the town centre, and instead of simply walking away and forgetting about it, had walked two miles home, retrieved an iron crowbar, and then gone back into town in search of them with the intention of causing severe injury to them all, and when he couldn't locate them, had instead attacked two pubgoers who he thought 'looked at him funny', resulting in his arrest on several charges and his subsequent conviction at the local Magistrates Court, resulting in the loss of his job (I forget what this was).

Anyway, for the relevant driving offences involved in our crash (and for failing to provide a sample) he was now disqualified from driving for a year (among other penalties) and this resulted in the loss of his mobility (considering his injuries) and hence prevented him from pursuing his temporary occupation as a window cleaner.

At around that time I moved into a new flat, and was surprised to see that among the accumulated mail for previous occupants, there was some in my driver's name. I mentioned to my new landlords that I knew him, and they shook their heads and explained how they had had to evict him due to (among other things) threatening the neighbours -- they also pointed out numerous repairs to the flat's interior walls which they said they had had to carry out after he started destroying the place.

I put this out of my mind, since it was clearly a coincidence that he had lived there before, until (some nights after I had moved in) I experienced an attempted break-in. I phoned the police and nothing further happened. Two nights later it happened again, but I wasn't at home and it was successful -- it involved breaking through a double-glazed patio door with reinforced glass, in an extremely visible and well-lit position. Nothing was stolen except the backlogged mail in my driver's name. I don't know what was so important about it, but I suspect he may have been fraudulently claiming benefits by allowing his claim to housing benefit at that address to run on once his tenancy had expired.

Two days later, he got in touch with me at work, saying it was a shame we hadn't met for so long, inquiring about going out for a drink at some stage and asking if I knew anyone who wanted to buy a video camera. I expressed interest, and met him at a local pub, where he showed the camera off to me. Something didn't quite ring true, and so I declined to pay his asking price of £100 and bargained him down to £50. I then took the camera straight to the local Trading Standards Office, who confirmed that -- while perfectly functional -- it was a fake of inferior quality and could not be used with standard home video production equipment or software. I phoned my driver and explained what I had discovered about the 'special offer' he had presented me with, and he simply said (without any apparent shame or even awareness of his having scammed me): "Yeah, I've got a couple more if you want them." -- as if I were a potential customer for future orders. He then proceeded to try to get me to agree to meet for a drink, as though nothing had happened! Needless to say, I declined.

The next time I encountered him was a few months later in the same gay pub in which I had met him originally. I was just leaving with some guy I'd pulled and he decided to come along with us. We didn't seem to be able to shake him off, and when we got back to my place, we couldn't get him to leave, and even though we made it clear he was going to sleep on the sofa, he subsequently interrupted our bedroom activities by appearing stark naked, spreading his presented buttocks with both hands, and repeatedly screaming "F*CK ME! F*CK ME!" -- in the end his behaviour became so alarming that I called the police and had him removed.

That was the last I saw of him for over a year, when he appeared at the local Magistrates Court for committal to Crown Court on charges of killing one of his many illegitimate children, a daughter whom he had shaken to death because she wouldn't stop crying. Psychiatric assessments were carried because of the nature of his behaviour, and the result was that he was determined to be a psychopath. I forget what sentence he received, I just remember how my blood ran cold when I read the newspaper report of the case.

I will tell the story of the second psychopath who intruded into my life, at a later date, perhaps tomorrow, if anyone can be bothered to read it, as I'm getting a bit tired now.

good.grief.

There was a list of the top ten professions in which psychos/socios tend to appear. Among them was clergymen surgeons police officers Lawyers etc. Generally the higher up in the hierarchical echelons you go the more people are predisposed to psychopathy. The scale is basically analogous to the autism spectrum where the hgiher up you go in further education or the tech world the more cases of autism are recorded.


Essentially the world is actually run by psychopaths which really isnt very promising for world peace

I want to also recommend the book delaShane mentions: "The Sociopath Next Door" by Stout. I found it an excellent resource and guide.

In my life I had two instances of dealing with sociopaths, prior to knowing what they are and how to spot them. The financial costs (damages + legal fees) were well into five figures, USD. If I allow myself, I can still experience feeling of anger and betrayal towards those scoundrels.

I now know how to spot them early. I also know that, for me, unless I am able to cut off all current and future interaction with them, then I will ultimately pay some form of costs (emotional if not financial). Such people are expert at exploiting even the most diligent, and the form my ASD takes makes me an easier target than most.

This calls to mind something I have often heard expressed anecdotally by autistic people but for which I have never seen any firm evidence (and it could conceivably exist, somewhere within the Ministry of Justice's vast statistical archives, in a subcategory that compared offenders categorised in terms of relevant personality disorders, with official categories of 'vulnerability' among their victims) --

that psychopathic individuals, due to their keener appreciation of an individual's social limitations and inability to perceive emotional states, tend to zero in on autistic individuals wherever the opportunity presents itself, because -- thanks to the psychopath's ability to assume an acceptable social 'mask' and the autist's social naivete and limited ability to perceive personal motivations -- the autistic individual presents a unique form of target in the psychopath's limited horizons of exploitation and manipulation,

with the further instinctive understanding by the psychopathic initiator of the relationship that the autistic person presents an almost unlimited opportunity for the creation of personal suffering and misery (which will provoke pleasure-responses in the psychopath's neurological pathways) while the victim may never be able to perceive the artificially-created origin of their pain, so long as the psychopath takes reasonable measures to ensure his responsibility is not obvious, meaning that this situation of 'invisible persecution' can be potentially extended indefinitely, according to the pleasure-driven needs of the psychopathic manipulator of the scenario, who may throughout be perceived as a genuine friend by his autistic victim.

I have no idea how true this perception is, but it strikes me as being eminently feasible, and reminds me unavoidably of such unpleasant (but now thankfully rare) expressions of childhood cruelty in which a blind man's white cane was snatched away from him, while he was assaulted from all directions and unable to defend himself against his invisible tormentors.

Even if it's not a common occurrence, I would be willing to bet that it's not exactly an uncommon one either..