Aspergers vs. Borderline Personality Disorder?

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Do you think there's a degree of comorbidity between the two, or are they mutually exclusive from one another?

I'm a 25 y/o high-functioning Aspie who has suspected on and off for the past several years that I might have traits of borderline as well- enough to have a significant impact on my functioning and quality of life. I've done a little preliminary reading on the subject and have encountered viewpoints from both sides, but I wanted to share my experiences with others in case anyone else has dealt with similar issues themselves or knows someone who has. This is actually the first time that I've ever opened up about this to anybody, so any input or support would be greatly appreciated. If anyone reading this happens to be a mental health professional, you are more than welcome to give your two cents as to what might be going on in that unhinged noggin of mine

I figure the best way to do this would be to tackle each borderline symptom one-by-one and then share my own experiences as it relates to those symptoms...sorry if this ends up veering off into tl;dr territory, folks :-/

1) Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment

This one really depends on how you define "abandonment"- if we're talking something along the lines of a friend, family member, or significant other going shopping or even leaving town for a few days, then usually I'll hold up just fine. If we're dealing with a situation such as a breakup or a fight where I'm actually at risk of "losing" that person, then that's where s**t can get pretty ugly. I can think of several instances with my on-again off-again college boyfriend where this was the case, one of them being when he accused me via email of cheating on him (which was entirely untrue) and threatened to leave me. As soon as I finished reading the email I began to hyperventilate and feel lightheaded and nauseous, and within a few seconds I was out the door literally running to his apartment completely unaware of the fool I was likely making of myself. As soon as I got there I started banging on his door screaming at him to "OPEN THE F***ING DOOR", and when he didn't (he was at a friend's at the time) I left him a voicemail telling him, among other things, that I "felt like I wanted to blow my f***ing brains out". Long story short, we did kiss and make up, but from what I understand this is very typical of borderline behavior (even though the relationship was quite serious and there was a lot at stake). Perhaps this issue stems from a fear of people leaving me and not accepting me because of my Asperger's and other assorted problems, but it does have me wondering. I should also probably add at this point that I've also been diagnosed in the past with bipolar II disorder (primarily depressive), social anxiety, and ADD.

2) A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation

As evidenced in the previous anecdote, I do seem to have a slight tendency towards ending up in tumultuous situations with people, however I don't think this is due to any sort of flip-flopping between idealization and devaluation. The flip-flopping was definitely true in middle school and partially into high school before I stopped trying to win the affections of the popular elite (which failed miserably, of course), but after that I gradually stopped idealizing people altogether as I began to develop trust issues and become more cynical of others' intentions. When I meet someone now, I typically go into it with initial neutrality and then slowly form an opinion from there, but I usually don't idealize. If I like the person/care about their opinion of me and they do something that I take personally (particularly anything that involves perceived rejection), I instantly feel a cold indifference towards them- not necessarily hatred or devaluation, but a kind of emotional distancing I guess? If the issue is resolved, then things immediately go back to normal as if it never happened. As for why my relationships with others are sometimes vulnerable to instability, I think that's because of my insecurities and obsessive desire to be accepted/not rejected more than anything else (and subsequent issues with paranoia and taking things the wrong way).

3) Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.

When it comes to interests and goals in life, not really. When it comes to personality and how I project myself, yes. When I was in middle school (probably around 12 or 13), I began to realize that something wasn't quite right with me that set me apart from other kids- as I would find out a few years later, Aspergers. The more I thought about it, the more I started to feel "flawed" and "messed up", and as a result I came to the conclusion that my personality needed a massive overhaul. I looked around and decided who I wanted to model myself on; in middle school it was the popular kids, and in high school and beyond it was the misfits/"alternative" kids. Every aspect of my personality- from my sense of humor to my mannerisms to my overall disposition- underwent an attempt to be altered, and while I managed to get rid of some of the traits that made me flat-out freakish (such as randomly breaking out into made-up songs that made no sense whatsoever), it more or less turned me into a fractured self-loathing mess. To this day I still feel somewhat fractured and disjointed and that my personality is one big cheap imitation, a shoddily put-together quilt of the personalities of those I so desperately wanted to be like.

4) Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, Substance Abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). (Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior here.)

For the most part no, although I do have a history of slipping into brief episodes of self-destructive behavior (particularly binge drinking and smoking) that I've been able to quickly pull myself out of. So yeah, I wouldn't consider this a major problem relative to the others.

5) Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior.

Probably not to the same extent that borderlines are known for, but I have self-mutilated on one occasion (slashed myself on the leg with a pair of scissors right after my ex broke up with me via phone), and due to current stresses in my life right now I've gotten into the habit of pinching myself in an effort to transfer my pain from emotional to physical. About 5 years ago I also checked myself into a psych ward after having suicidal thoughts, brought on by a particularly awful phone conversation I had with my parents about my lack of direction in life and how they were losing faith in me as a result (there were other issues going on as well). My psych ward stint was definitely intended as an explicit cry for help, but the self-harm is something that I try to keep hidden as a personal coping mechanism. As for the scissors incident, that was more a matter of me losing control and having a very poor lapse of judgment.

6) Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)

Not as bad as I used to be now that I'm on proper medication, but I occasionally have bad bouts of anxiety/irritability if I'm in a socially stressful situation of some sort (rejection, overwhelming atmosphere, etc), or if I feel challenged or criticized in some way. I also have extremely poor emotional regulation and cry VERY easily, which is a problem that has plagued me for literally as long as I can remember.

7) Chronic feelings of emptiness

Sometimes? I think I have a tendency to feel like something is "missing" in my life, which I think is due in part to having little friends and not getting out a lot. As much as I would like to get closer to people, it feels pretty damn near impossible sometimes because of all my fears and inhibitions. Life is what you make of it, and sometimes I feel like I don't make a whole lot out of it.

8.) Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

Yes, although a lot of this anger is internalized. I tend to be one of those people who bottles things up and lashes out without warning. Occasionally I'll be talking to someone and if they do so much as criticize me (even constructively), I'll immediately go on the defensive and start jumping down their throat. Whenever I have an outburst it always seems to be hair-trigger in nature, although I never get physical (despite sometimes fantasizing about doing so). Perhaps this anger stems from Aspergers-related communication issues?

9) transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.

I don't think I've ever experienced full-blown psychosis, but I've definitely dealt with my fair share of paranoia (largely from rejection fears and worrying that people are talking behind my back), and there have been instances where I've felt outside of myself due to emotional stress.

Strangely absent from this list is the topic of manipulation, something that a lot of people seem to think Aspies aren't capable of. In my case, and possibly in the case of other high-functioning Aspies who have learned to compensate due to self-consciousness and a desire to fit in (esp. Aspie girls like myself), I think the ability to manipulate is definitely possible. In my experience this seems to have come about from being manipulated and taken advantage of in middle school, and so I taught myself how to manipulate as a sort of defense mechanism and as a means of taking control. Not that I used my ability to manipulate all that much, but it was always there in my toolbox of defense mechanisms in case I needed it. Later on I used it as a way to manipulate people's emotions, especially towards my parents for guilt-tripping purposes whenever they would make me feel like s**t about my life circumstances (some being beyond my control, some not). Have also guilt-tripped my ex-boyfriend in the past for the emotional pain our breakup(s) have caused me. Sometimes I wonder whether my behavior has something to do with Aspergers-related communication issues and not always knowing how to diplomatically get my point across?

Another common thread that seems to occur with borderlines is a history of abuse and neglect, of which I have very little to none- maybe the trauma and emotional pain that often goes along with AS is that abuse?

Sorry that this kind of turned into a novel, but like I said this is the first time I've ever opened up about this so naturally I had a lot to get off my chest. If you made it this far, you are awesome

the abuse or neglect would have occurred at a very early age and you might not remember it.

Thanks for the post. I don't mind the novel length. I sometimes wonder whether I have borderline personality disorder because people do bring it up because my bipolar episodes are so brief. Nothing in that description reflects my manic episodes though. I suppose you could have both, like I think my sister does. You would see the borderline in her before the bipolar but she has maybe medium length episodes worsened by self medicating with alcohol and drugs.

As for impulsive behaviour for you, remember you also have ADD and bipolar so you would have some impulsive behaviour. Lately my own spending is harder to control and I'm trying to get better social skills but it just seems so hard when blurting out words seems to work best for me.

Have you heard of pathological demand avoidance syndrome? It's like a childhood version of borderline because children can't be diagnosed with a PD. I'm certain it's what I have had all my life. The main symptom is resistance and avoidance to following instruction, and back then I was more avoidant, these days I'm more resistant (because my sister is very demanding that she's essentially broken me out of my avoidant shell) but I can still have some avoidant behaviour. Social manipulation is another symptom and it's a very subtle form. Sometimes you don't notice you're doing it but because of this extreme anxiety over not having control over your own environment (often seen as having extreme aversion to change) you manipulate people into restoring this balance. I'm feeling it now because the bands I want to see just aren't playing near me. I've had urges to drop a few hints to get them to come sooner.
PDA seems like borderline but in a very narrow way.

I do relate to BPD in that I can turn against people if I feel rejected, and like you it seems like I'm emotionally distancing myself. In fact I seem to be emotionally distancing myself from the world. I've spent a lot of time offline and away from most people so I don't feel as close to them as I usually am.
I can have self-image problems too. Most of my personality is made up of people I have involuntarily mimicked. It feels like there's no real me left. I don't think I am the most attractive person so to save myself from the hurt I think of myself as either a type of character in manga/comic book or in a movie. As a child I was really into children's films. It was probably my only 'interaction' with children my age and it's probably influenced me. I still feel like I am one of those characters, at 28 I might add.

One thing that makes me think I'm either not BPD or not a typical case is that I can suppress a lot of emotions. I don't explode in front of people or like my sister seek out people to blame, though I do this internally. I'm self-aware, can consciously regulate behaviour and try to stay polite around people. I may just have some personality traits that make it easier for me to regulate my emotions, or at least, keep them hidden. I do eventually explode like you said you do.

Now the feelings of emptiness is something I've been experiencing occasionally and in severity quite recently. I've been feeling a mixture of restlessness and emptiness, a 'what happens next' feeling. Part could be my constant need to stay stimulated but to me it feels like they need to be stimulated could be a cause of this emptiness. I'm not really sure. Something does feel missing though. I've tried to pin it on the lack of live bands especially the three I want to see more than any other band. But I don't know if after this happens if I'll just feel the same way again. I do go through depression too (I'm trying my hardest to hold it off) because I have bipolar. For now I think I'll see it as my need for novel stimulation.

I get paranoid because of my PTSD that happened after I was almost mugged but in the situation I was alone and outnumbered. Many of my mental problems happened after it too. I can dissociate but not in a way that I lose my identity. Sometimes I wish I just would but maybe all the characters I think up in my head for my 'mental movies' are a part of this.

Abandonment and rejection feel like the same thing to me. My parents got divorced when I was 5 and I never really got to know my dad and I have been fixated on seeing the men in my life as father figures who are just as emotionless as my dad was. A psychologist told me that once and it seemed to stay with me. At least I know who I'll always end up being with. Apparently I'm drawn to men just like my dad. Great.

I seem to never be sure of my opinion too. Because I go through manic, depressive and normal states and it all affects what I believe in. They all usually are short-lived so I'm constantly jumping from one belief to another.

I'm sure there are some borderline symptoms in there as well as other disorders. I just don't really know for sure.

You thought yours was long? I also feel like what I write on forums after a certain passing of time that it was all for nothing. That I just wrote it out on impulse and I'm not even sure if it's how I really feel. Although that could just be social anxiety.

Thanks for the reply, pensieve! Was worried that people would find the length of my post obnoxious, but I'm glad to know that there's at least one person who didn't, heh.

I've never heard of pathological demand avoidance syndrome, but it actually sounds more like how I am now as opposed to how I was as a kid. I was surprisingly fairly agreeable and compliant as a kid, but once the s**t hit the fan in middle school I started to become a lot more contrary and neurotic (I'm sure the raging hormones didn't help either, ha). The fear of losing control over my environment is probably one of the biggest hangups that I have, and that could definitely be a reason for why I sometimes feel the urge to manipulate people's emotions- if they don't feel what I want them to feel, all those emotions end up ricocheting back to me which leaves me alone to suffer.

Like you I'm pretty self-aware when it comes to understanding the need to control my anger and emotions, but because of how prone I am to meltdowns and crying spells it's not always the easiest thing for me to carry out. I was never abused or neglected as a kid, so why I've been like this for literally as long as I can remember is a complete mystery to me (I sometimes wonder whether it's got something to do with possible brain damage sustained at birth, but that's another story for another post).

And yeah, the fluctuating opinions thing is another issue I occasionally deal with myself. I'm not as bad as I used to be now that my views on things are a bit more grounded, but it's still very hard sometimes to resist the urge to fall back on popular opinion or on the opinion of someone you admire and want to impress. The question I often end up asking myself is, "is this opinion in line with what a person of my values and interests SHOULD believe"? Maybe that comes from a fear of potentially having my intelligence challenged for holding the wrong viewpoint, I dunno. So I guess the reason I have this issue is a little bit different from yours...

I had an over protective mother so when I finally left that protection I went out into the world completely naive and then I just got stuck. I'm pretty sure it was the near mugging and the many years on Ritalin that screwed me up.

I still have a hard time understanding why some children can be so compliant. I must have been a difficult child to deal with even though my mother denies it. I would just lie down on the floor and resist to do things rather than argue or be violent.

My difficulty in knowing what my real opinion is has made me unsure about being political and even taking sides in certain areas of activism. The whole vaccine thing etc. I'm careful about sharing my opinion too. As a kid I didn't have my own opinion and I never spoke to people so in my early 20s (especially when mania hit) I would just spout my opinion which often flip flopped which made me sound hypocritical at times.

I'm also a bit of a chameleon. I'm good at looking like I fit into a group when I don't and I don't really know who I am. For example what I wear when I see bands is significantly different than what I usually wear.

I had quite a lot of meltdowns since going off medication but now I'm under the same amount of stress and I'm used to it. When I have pms things are harder to control. Actually I always feel like I'm losing my mind. I often rant about people but for some reason go silent when in their presence.

In my opinion (as of now) I think personality disorders don't always have to be a result of trauma but are ways to cope with a stressful situation. Because we've got Asperger's we're under more stress than non-autistic people, and with ADHD as well, there's like no escape from being stressed out. For me, it's this massive defense mechanism that stops me from remembering how people have hurt me in the past or tried to control me (I tend to exaggerate this) and it's just my way of getting control back and saving myself from future hurt.
I like that opinion. I hope it sticks.

If, say, your parents were to give you a gift, would you tend to ruin that gift in a way visible to the gift-givers?

"4.2.1. Borderline PD
Comparing DSM-IV-TR criteria for borderline PD with
PDD, the clinical pictures are not strikingly similar.
However, in previous assumptions by clinicians, as well as
in some research, some similarities have been pointed out
[24-26]. For example, major difficulties in interpersonal
relationships, identity problems, and difficulties in affect
regulation are said to be shared traits. Although the core
features of borderline PD (impulsivity, affective instability,
instability in interpersonal relationships) are not typical for
PDD/ASD, coexistence cannot be ruled out."

http://www.gnc.gu.se/digitalAssets/1349 ... utism-.pdf