Therapist Says No Asp due to Eye Contact? Long; help!

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I'm pretty new here, and of middle age. I have a long-standing dx of Borderline P D, w/ major depression in some degree of remission, alcohol abuse in remission, benzo addiction in long taper, and anxieties. For just about all of my life, others have found me objectionably weird. I am hyperlexic/non-language-related LD (this obtained from Vocational Rehab two years back) as well, which served to explain a lot and also render me temporarily hopeless and a bit stunned.

An acquaintence w/ no formal MH training 'diagnosed' me w/ Asperger's. That used to be code for "weird" for me, and it hurt a lot--but once I recovered, I started to read up on the subject, came to some peace w/ what seemed like the strong possibility that I had the syndrome (my father also), and sought confirmation of this idea w/ my community MH therapist of three years.

I thought she'd immediately agree that I had Asperger's--but she did not, and she based her rejection of my self-dx on the fact that over the years, I've learned to make and maintain strong eye contact, sometimes to the extent that others are made uncomfortable by it. (To deal w/ this, I try to create the impression that Im a bit distracted from time to time, but I fear that I don't do that right, either. "What's WROOONGGG with you?!?!" seems to be an unwelcome, persistent introject, or 'tape' that just will not stand down.)

What's more, she based her opinion on her experience w/ a relative, as did the acquaintence I mentioned earlier who took the liberty of diagnosing me w/ no training.

AD explains so very much about me: social ineptitude; clumsiness; the inability to meaningfully learn/use higher mathematics (high school algebra and beyond); intolerance of social conventions such as small talk. (I do not get why someone would go to the trouble of saying, "How are YEW?" to anyone else and just keep on rolling. I do not know why someone would answer "Fine", when "fine" is a bald-faced lie. In fact, I'm nearing fifty, and cannot recall ever having uttered those things voluntarily, except perhaps in an interview situation.

I'll clean maniacally, but am unable to keep a bedroom in any kind of order--any straightening I might do happens upon waking, and is always somehow insufficient.

Borderline explains my intense, prolonged, and too frequently damaging reactions to social and vocational rejection.

So I'm wired to be rejected, in my formative years when AD was unknown; and when I'm rejected, I become depressed or worse, self-medicating if I am able.

About the only things that would mitigate against Asperger's are ineptitude with/extraordinary anxiety around computers, something I ignored for a decade until I could do so no longer.

I exhibit highly circumstantial speech, and when I try to write anything tending toward the creative, I cannot tie it up to a finish, and go on to edit it. I just can't.

I feel like a dx of Asperger's would help me obtain the appropriate treatment for it.

Did I mention that all I've been able to afford is public/community health services? For whatever reason(s), I feel that a better-qualified/more experienced T could get me started on the long road to some degree of function/wellness.

This has been long and discursive--something else I'd like to learn to 'edit' as I compose it, and for that I apologise. (When I was in college, after I got the idea of showing up and trying to attend to the professor, circumstantiality/tangentialness was not this pronounced. I drank and drugged and my writing has gotten much, much worse.) Again, I sorry; my bad.

Too much eye contact? It happens a lot in AD, does it not? How do I get a dx that will help me.

If I were you, I would go to an autism specialist.
Also girls with Asperger's get miss-dx with BPD in many cases, because of overlapping symptoms.
So if I were you, I would ask myself wich symptoms you really have and wich one you just started to believe because doctors told you, you were supposed to have. Because just if you are so objective as possible and go to a specialist, you'll have a chance to find out what's really wrong with you.

Last edited by Raziel on 24 Jan 2014, 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

According to me mum, I've always had good eye contact, yet that didn't stop me from getting diagnosed with PDD-NOS by age 6 and Asperger's at age 13. I think you're being had, OP.

Same here, I also have eye contact and still got dx with HFA.
Psychiatrists who say that usually don't have much experience with ASD.
The best thing you can do is going to an ASD specialist.

Last edited by Raziel on 25 Jan 2014, 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

too much eye contact can also be a sign of AS. I agree with the others that an autism expert would give a better opinion on your situation.

A therapist is not qualified to diagnose Asperger Syndrome, you'll need a licensed psychologist for that, preferably one with direct, hands-on EXPERIENCE with autistic adults, and those are few and far between. However, your therapist probably knows of one and could refer you for a second opinion, if you press them to.

Eye contact as a diagnostic criteria is meaningless in autistic adults, who have had decades to learn to fake their way through social encounters. There are a battery of specific tests for evaluating AS in adults. Sensory processing tests are much more telling than eye contact. There are several acclaimed Hollywood movie stars diagnosed from youth with Asperger Syndrome, I would think not being able to fake normal eye contact might hold one back in a career like that.

You're here
it's clear
sit down
listen up

you ought to take the above advice and see an specialist in autism.

my report when I got my diagnosis says that I have a glib stare, I do make eye contact though, but it can be quite painful.

When I interviewed for a position at my university's career center, one of the interviewers told me that I stare too hard, or something like that; there was apparently something wrong with the way I look people in the eyes. I haven't heard that from anyone else (even mental health professionals), neither have I seen it described in any psychological or psychiatric reports that have been done.

So, dunno.

http://davidcollard.wordpress.com/2013/ ... ath-stare/

I just found this.

also more important, you don't have to fullfill every single autistic symptom to get dx.
It's a spectrum like every neuropsychiatric disorder.

I make eye contact plenty, and I still got diagnosed.

Therapists can't diagnose you and only help treat the condition. The only people that are qualified are psychologists.

I make eye contact but when someone is talking to me, I make eye contact with another person other than the speaker. I also don't like it when people stare at me but I stare at them.

I am brand new here, so I am not sure I am posting this correctly. Forgive me if this shows up in the wrong place. I don't think that Aspergers can be "diagnosed" without appropriate testing by someone that knows what they are doing.I don't think any "single" thing makes or breaks a diagnosis (such as eye contact). My son was diagnosed with Aspergers by a psychologist. I accepted the diagnosis and purchased every book I could find to educate myself to help my son. Much of what I read "fit" him, but some key things did NOT fit. I wondered if I was "in denial", but knew I wasn't. I searched until I found another psychologist who looked at the report and said several key tests were not conducted. She conducted them and diagnosed my son with NLD (non-verbal learning disability). It appears very very similar to Aspergers, but there are some key differences. Not all psychologists are familiar with NLD and make the diagnosis of Aspergers. If you do pay for an evaluation, make sure the person is familiar with both (and I have noticed in research that schizoid personality disorder has a lot of similar characteristics, but diagnosis of that isn't possible until after the age of 18….and the although the name sounds likes schizophrenia, it IS NOT…). If you feel it is important to have an accurate diagnosis for your own information or for some necessary reason (like therapy or such), just make sure the professional is familiar with all the possibilities before shelling out a lot of money. If it isn't essential to have a diagnosis, but you just want to understand yourself better or have a therapist understand you more, you may want to get books on all 3 and read through them and find characteristics that resonate with you.

Best of luck to you!

I learned eye contact cos someone said not having eye contact is being dishonest. I could do it but I can't stand it for long. It would probably be fleeting than normal people would do. And yep, it's an uncomfortable feeling esp. with strangers cos I can't read anything through their eye expression unless they'd start smiling or grinning or frowning then I'd assume that they're happy or sad or angry. What I want to say is that I can do eye contact but it doesn't make me smarter with perceiving expressions.

I was never formally diagnosed with Borderline, but that was because I was under 18. It's been heavily suggested since I was 14, by multiple professionals. I was raised by an abusive mother who has undiagnosed BPD. I'm officially diagnosed as ASD now. I also have Bipolar, Depression, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and ADHD. I've had substance abuse problems, anger outbursts before, and did the "I hate you/don't leave me thing" until I finally was able to trust someone and they truly didn't leave me.

The reason I told you that is because yes, it's entirely possibly you are on the spectrum. Also, some of my other issues, as you can see, can mimic borderline traits when put all together. The way you describe eye contact, especially staring a little too much, is still abnormal eye contact. Now, I don't have eye contact at all until I warm up to people. Even then, it's abnormal. However, throughout my life, professionals insisted I was lying because I didn't have it. They interpreted all of my behaviors as arrogance, stubbornness, and severe mental illness. If you had these sorts of reactions, I would say it's even more likely you are on the spectrum.

If you were ever abused and/or bullied, there is a HUGE possibility your trauma can be mimicking symptoms of BPD. Furthermore, you can actually have ASD AND BPD. They aren't mutually exclusive.

If you had trouble making friends, you might have developed a fear of abandonment. If you think logically and don't fully understand peoples' emotional states and/or talk too much (which happen with a lot of autistic people) this can lead to black and white thinking because you don't have all of the relevant information.

I hope she didn't diagnose you as borderline without you even meeting at least 5 out of the 9 criteria. Just because you had substance abuse and strong reactions to abandonment does NOT automatically mean borderline! That's like diagnosing someone who appears to have a lack of empathy at first as a sociopath, even though they have it AND remorse. (Note: I'm do not mean borderlines are like sociopaths, guys. I just wanted to add this just in case someone thought I was relating the two.)

I will tell you a lot of the public therapists and social workers are just as clueless about ASD as they are about borderlines. The borderline label is given to patients who question authority, have trouble getting better in under a year with minimal therapy that never actually helps, and/or are considered "difficult". Borderlines have legitimate issues, yes, but it's still stigmatized within the mental health field.

Regardless of what you are, think about this: If you aren't getting much help, wouldn't it matter what your label is? You could treat someone with clinical depression stemming from abuse, and someone with Bipolar depression. Obviously, the way in which you treat the two might be very different. If you are being treated for clinical depression and you're Bipolar, for example, it could be harmful to you. If you feel as if you're not addressing the real problems, or that there's something you still can't quite put your finger on, I would completely urge you to go to someone who is specialized. Depending on where you live, there might be a non-profit. Get someone who is experienced with adult high functioning autistic females, and is also able to rule out and/or refer for personality disorders. If you did happen to have BPD and not ASD like you are thinking, you would need more intensive therapy than what you are getting. And you don't need any of that "tough love" crap if someone is using that on you regardless of what the issue is.

If you want my personal opinion on if it's possible, I think it's entirely possible you are on the spectrum. What you describe is very similar to how I am. Also, while not all borderlines are social butterflies, it seems as if you struggle more socially than just simply not liking people and/or getting nervous. You seem to have a fundamental lack of understanding that would stem from neurological differences just as ASD. While people with anxiety can have abnormal eye contact, they usually don't have the staring problem that will come from someone with ASD trying to correct the lack of eye contact. Also, since you're almost 50, BPD traits should be calming down soon if you really are borderline. When you were young, females were rarely diagnosed with autism. There was no aspergers diagnosis back then, let alone a spectrum that allowed for higher functioning autistic people. You were probably missed like a lot of other females.