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Dione
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25 May 2014, 9:19 am

My mother in-law has had a severe hoarding problem for as long as my husband can remember. Unfortunately, despite the fact that every room except for her kitchen, dining room, living room, family room, two of her bathrooms, and her bedroom are hoarded to where you can't get in, she refuses to get help and refers to herself as a collector, not a hoarder. Unfortunately, she's even had one room invaded by pack rats without knowing because their back porch was also hoarded.

Earlier this week, we were over there because we wanted to remove some of the thousands of toys and books my husband had as a kid from her property. Normally this is not a problem, but this time, she demanded to know what we were going to do with some of it, threw a fit because my husband wanted to empty a bin into the garbage without going through it because something appeared to have lived in it (we did end up emptying it out at our place, and it turned out the only thing that wasn't garbage was fifteen cents), and coerced my husband into letting her keep some of his toys because our kids will come to see her; for the record, we don't have kids, won't have them for at least another six years, and won't have them around his parents because of the hoarding and because they have told us they will belt our children even if we have express wishes for them not to.

What probably disturbed us the most out of all this was a new thing she has begun to hoard. While we were taking a break between going through things, she opened one of several curio cabinets stuffed with stuff in her living room and proudly showed us a clump of fur, saying she was going to make another one of her cats; it turned out that she has started hoarding mats from the cat when she brushes her out.

My husband and I are very distraught because we don't know what to do; we know she's an adult and has her own responsibilities, but on the other hand, we know she needs help and want to help her. Quite honestly, we don't know if we even should step in. Is there anyone who is a psychologist or who has successfully talked to a relative with this problem?



blueroses
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27 May 2014, 6:49 pm

Is her health and safety in danger because of the hoarding? (Is the home unsanitary? Would emergency personnel have trouble getting to her in the event of a fire or medical emergency, due to the hoarding?) If so, you may be able to anonymously contact adult protective services about it, depending upon where she lives and her age. However, if she does not have many other guests in her home, it would not be too difficult for her to figure out who called.

I work for a social services agency and have had to do this several times for clients over the years. It's a lot harder when it is your own family member, though. My eccentric mother was keeping 17 cats (yes, 17) in a small mobile home at one time and her housekeeping is also poor, so it did not take long for the cats to pretty much destroy the carpeting, furniture, etc. in the home. I thought about calling protective services, but she is too young for to be served by them and I also don't think I could have brought myself to do it. She and my brother did eventually give some of the animals away, but it's still not a great situation. These things are never easy, for sure. Good luck to you and your husband.



Dione
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28 May 2014, 12:26 pm

blueroses wrote:
Is her health and safety in danger because of the hoarding? (Is the home unsanitary? Would emergency personnel have trouble getting to her in the event of a fire or medical emergency, due to the hoarding?) If so, you may be able to anonymously contact adult protective services about it, depending upon where she lives and her age. However, if she does not have many other guests in her home, it would not be too difficult for her to figure out who called.

I work for a social services agency and have had to do this several times for clients over the years. It's a lot harder when it is your own family member, though. My eccentric mother was keeping 17 cats (yes, 17) in a small mobile home at one time and her housekeeping is also poor, so it did not take long for the cats to pretty much destroy the carpeting, furniture, etc. in the home. I thought about calling protective services, but she is too young for to be served by them and I also don't think I could have brought myself to do it. She and my brother did eventually give some of the animals away, but it's still not a great situation. These things are never easy, for sure. Good luck to you and your husband.


The home is definitely unsanitary; my allergies always kick up when I'm there because of the sheer amount of dust and dirt and the filthy catbox (she only has three cats, so there's no excuse for it not to be clean). One of the most hoarded rooms in the house is occupied by massive amounts of clothes; if there's a surge in the electricity in this room, that room would go up like a torch. Because this room is right next door to their bedroom and their dogs' kennels are blocking the door between their bedroom and this room and also the tops of the kennels are covered in clothes and books, the dogs and possibly the people in the room would be susceptible to being killed before waking up to realize there was a fire. She's only 59, so I don't think I could call APS; plus, my husband and I and some cousins whose house is also pretty dirty are the only ones who visit her.



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28 May 2014, 12:42 pm

I'm very sorry that I've to say this, but legally you can't do something if she is not a danger to herself or to others and it can make the situation worse if you are trying to force her to something.

Sadly I've no real solution. Hoarding is in my opinion an OCD-like disorder. My father kept a lot of stuff, over thousands of books, several carpets so that they lay over each other and other stuff. But I still wouldn't call that a hoarding disorder, because you still could enter the room and everything. Also my grandma has propably severe OCPD. None of the ever changed their behaviour and non of them wanted treatment. Somehow OCD spectrum disorders seem to be very constant and many refuse treatment. At least that's my experience, but they seem to have a high success rate when they get treated with psychiatric drugs.

The best you can do in my opinion is if you get therapy. It may sound strange at first, but a therapist can help you and give you advice how to deal with such a behaviour from you mother-in-law. Also it can give her the impression that getting help for everyday things is normal. My mother started to see at least once in a while a therapist, after I want to therapy regularly and told her that it helps me.


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Dione
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28 May 2014, 2:05 pm

Raziel wrote:
I'm very sorry that I've to say this, but legally you can't do something if she is not a danger to herself or to others and it can make the situation worse if you are trying to force her to something.

Sadly I've no real solution. Hoarding is in my opinion an OCD-like disorder. My father kept a lot of stuff, over thousands of books, several carpets so that they lay over each other and other stuff. But I still wouldn't call that a hoarding disorder, because you still could enter the room and everything. Also my grandma has propably severe OCPD. None of the ever changed their behaviour and non of them wanted treatment. Somehow OCD spectrum disorders seem to be very constant and many refuse treatment. At least that's my experience, but they seem to have a high success rate when they get treated with psychiatric drugs.

The best you can do in my opinion is if you get therapy. It may sound strange at first, but a therapist can help you and give you advice how to deal with such a behaviour from you mother-in-law. Also it can give her the impression that getting help for everyday things is normal. My mother started to see at least once in a while a therapist, after I want to therapy regularly and told her that it helps me.


Oh, my husband and I are not trying to force her; we know how badly it can turn out in someone who doesn't have mental and emotional issues as it is. We want to encourage her to get help because it's impacting her relationship with us in the sense that we dread going over there. She's also begun hoarding toys for when my husband and I have kids, but we're afraid of telling her that any kids we have will not be spending the night over there due to the hazards and the lack of a place for anyone to sleep because the guest bedroom is so badly hoarded that you can get the door open, walk in, and close the door behind you, but that's about it.

The problem is, she's anti-psychology; she is convinced that my husband was misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder and that it's a thyroid condition, his half sister is faking her bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, and his half brother's bipolar disorder and borderline personality disorder is caused by his mother being a drug addict. She also believes that those who have psychological issues carried over certain traits from being reincarnated due to her involvement in a New Age cult. Even worse, she calls us hypocrites for not having a perfectly clean house, but at the same time, if our house were spotless, we would be written off as being anal retentive about cleanliness.

I'm seeing a counselor with my husband, and we're working on our communication, which has also improved the state of our home because we are better able to clean together. Unfortunately, she sees what we're doing as highly unnecessary and thus isn't willing to do it.



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28 May 2014, 2:39 pm

It's good to hear that you don't force her. :D
It's just always important for me to mention, because I've a trauma and got highly paranoid after I was forced staying in the locked ward in the psychiatry. This ended in a drama that lasted several years where I freaked seeing a psychiatrist, had anxiety attacks because of them and wasn't able to take psychiatric drugs in that time. Well, it's off-topic, I just think it's important that everyone has the right for his or her own decisions, even if they seem to be very unhealthy on the outside.

It's sad to hear that she is so anti-psychiatry. Maybe she doesn't want to deal with her own problems and that's her way to do so. Some of her believes like the "reincarnation" seem to be schizotypal. Maybe I'm wrong about this, I don't have enough information, but OCD spectrum disorders and schizotypal PD occur together very often. So it's likely. I don't want to diagnose her, it's not serious over the internet with just a few informations. It's just a personal impression, I'm having many schizotypal traits myself.

I guess you can't change her mind, but if I were you I would tell her the truth in a very nice way that you don't think it's healthy letting children stay over her place. She has to deal with her consequences and maybe it helps her to realise that her behaviour isn't healthy. Maybe she wouldn't and maybe she will get mad, that's why it's important to tell it to her in a very diplomatic way, but she has to realise that her behaviour has consequences and that she has to deal with them. It's important to be as honest as possible. If she really has some schizotypal tendencies, than there is a high probability that she is a very suspicious person and the only thing to deal with that is with total honesty in a nice way of course.

Sorry if some stuff might sound confusing, English is not my natural language.


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Dione
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28 May 2014, 5:07 pm

Raziel wrote:
It's good to hear that you don't force her. :D
It's just always important for me to mention, because I've a trauma and got highly paranoid after I was forced staying in the locked ward in the psychiatry. This ended in a drama that lasted several years where I freaked seeing a psychiatrist, had anxiety attacks because of them and wasn't able to take psychiatric drugs in that time. Well, it's off-topic, I just think it's important that everyone has the right for his or her own decisions, even if they seem to be very unhealthy on the outside.

It's sad to hear that she is so anti-psychiatry. Maybe she doesn't want to deal with her own problems and that's her way to do so. Some of her believes like the "reincarnation" seem to be schizotypal. Maybe I'm wrong about this, I don't have enough information, but OCD spectrum disorders and schizotypal PD occur together very often. So it's likely. I don't want to diagnose her, it's not serious over the internet with just a few informations. It's just a personal impression, I'm having many schizotypal traits myself.

I guess you can't change her mind, but if I were you I would tell her the truth in a very nice way that you don't think it's healthy letting children stay over her place. She has to deal with her consequences and maybe it helps her to realise that her behaviour isn't healthy. Maybe she wouldn't and maybe she will get mad, that's why it's important to tell it to her in a very diplomatic way, but she has to realise that her behaviour has consequences and that she has to deal with them. It's important to be as honest as possible. If she really has some schizotypal tendencies, than there is a high probability that she is a very suspicious person and the only thing to deal with that is with total honesty in a nice way of course.

Sorry if some stuff might sound confusing, English is not my natural language.


I'm sorry to hear that you had such a traumatic experience.

I'm not one hundred percent certain on the schizotypal; unfortunately, it's hard to tell what traits come from actual mental illness and what comes from the New Age cult she's part of. Considering I do know she hears voices that she refers to as her angels, a major tenet of the cult she's part of, and that she thought tinnitis was her dead mother talking to her, I suppose it wouldn't be unlikely. The baby talk that she frequently employs is also a bit disturbing, although that probably has nothing to do with her mental state and everything to do with the cult telling her that being as childlike as possible is best for spiritual evolution.

I'm not exceptionally diplomatic and his mother really doesn't respect me, so I've told my husband that any communication will occur about the hoarding will be done by him, especially since she does get hurt easily. We're definitely going to be honest with her about everything from her lack of respect in our disbelief of corporal punishment (she's told me she would spank our kids even if we expressly told her not to, and my father in-law intends on using a belt) to the lack of habitability of 75% of her home.

Actually, I had no idea that English wasn't your first language; you speak it far better than most Americans.



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31 May 2014, 9:04 pm

Hoarders ussually cannot stop. You can kindly tell her that you would not be comfortable having your future kids there and that there is no way you will allow them to hit your kids. There is no reason to be combative or cause them problems. I mean, you don't have kids. I know people who save cat hair [shrug] At this point, why bother making it into a problem?



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31 May 2014, 9:09 pm

It kindof sounds like you are just dissing her. Be careful of that. It could damage your relationship with your husband, She soundsike a fragile person. I hope that your husband is being supportive because it doesn't sound as though her husband is.



Dione
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01 Jun 2014, 12:31 am

vickygleitz wrote:
It kindof sounds like you are just dissing her. Be careful of that. It could damage your relationship with your husband, She soundsike a fragile person. I hope that your husband is being supportive because it doesn't sound as though her husband is.


Oh, no dissing intended. I'm mostly irritated because she instilled a number of compulsions that my husband has had to grapple with throughout our marriage. Luckily, I've learned it's best not to use language that can be too inflammatory because he has expressed upset. He's trying to be supportive of her, unlike my father in-law. My father in-law pretty much does everything that experts tell you not to do, like throw stuff away without permission of the hoarder in question, throwing out sales information and new credit store credit cards when he finds them, etc.

My husband, when he does talk to her, tries to maintain calm tones and tries to make his statements as much about concerns about her health, safety, and happiness as he can. In all honesty, he's very worried because it's gotten really bad in the last few weeks, especially due to the collection of matted cat hair. Even their guest bathroom is started to be taken over by clothing, and we're afraid it will only get worse from here. We have talked about offering to take stuff to Goodwill or lump her stuff into our stuff for a local charity to pick it all up because we do know that sometimes actually getting it out of the house is the hardest part of cleaning up.