"Pure O"

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I've been avoiding doing research on OCD because I didn't want to "catch it from Google."

The more I meet people with it and watch them, though, the more sure I am that I now have full-blown clinical OCD.

The obsessional intrusive thoughts all relate to terrible things happening to me or my family because I "act autistic."

If there is a compulsive component, it's compulsively (to the point that it causes distress and hampers functioning) monitoring my behavior for any sign of autism, and compulsively eradicating anything that could be constructed as autistic behavior (eg. I must be completely submissive because autistics tend to be autocratic, I must give up gardening and canning because they are my special interest, I must monitor my word count very carefully because autistics tend to monologue, etc).

But-- I finally bit the bullet and looked it up today. I could almost physically hear the "CLICK" inside my head. The only other time that has ever happened in my life was learning about Asperger's. I have NEVER, to my recollection, been wrong when I've "heard" the mental "CLICK."

If there's anybody out there with "primarily obsessional OCD," which is what I actually think it is (and which they say is harder to treat), tell me about that.
Will some other people with OCD tell me what your thinking is like, regarding the objects of obsessive anxiety?? Describe to me.

Anyone reading, If you are having a flare of OCD or are having other like issues, like post-partum depression, please use caution in reading this reply. I know that "pure O" obsessions can be "contagious" in that when you hear of it or read it or see it in someone else. and it frightens you, you can start to worry about the same thing and I don't want to give anyone any more troubles. Things we hear and see already repeat themselves in our minds; OCD adds anxiety and fear to those things and propels them on. I also believe that OCD is fueled by pathological self-doubt, the power of suggestion, executive dysfunction, an overactive conscience, depression, and insecurity/change. Had this since I was at least 4 years old so I have had almost 26 years to ponder it all.

I have both forms: the "pure O" and the OC variety but it is the pure O that gives me the most problems nowadays. When I was younger I had the handwashing and fears of particular germs or conditions I thought I could catch to the point of washing my hands to cracked and bleeding and not being able to shower or sit anywhere or touch anything or anyone. I still have issues with checking doors to make sure they are locked and sometimes have to drive back home from down the street to make sure it is locked. The more in a hurry I am and the more "scrambled" I am from the overload of getting everything together and out the door on top of thinking about what all I have to do throughout the day, the harder it is to convince myself and remember that I locked the door. I am sure if the neighbors are watching, they've picked up on the OCD. Pretty classic. And I also have to check the stove and lights. Some days I end up shutting and locking the door three times before I can convince myself it is locked. I also have other stuff that I realize now might be more along the lines of ASD-type and some that is more socially-related, like worrying that someone misunderstood what I meant and that because they misunderstood, I told a lie, or if I leave out information. Seems stupid, when it's not "in-the-moment".

So, for the pure O, I have had several problems and they are truly terrifying thoughts. Horrible things. Things that I for no apparent reason, see myself doing or images of awful things. It always starts with a trigger. I think the trigger is when thoughts collide. Like, if I saw a disturbing movie (which I tend to avoid, but in this world sometimes you end up seeing movies or images you'd rather not, unfortunately) or heard something on the news or have a past trauma that my mind is dwelling on and happen to think of a person I know at the same time, that can set off a pure O obsession or if I have some severe interpersonal issues with another person. I don't want to to give actual examples because I don't want to "give anyone any ideas" but this is really hard to explain without specifics. I'll write about one of my less horrifying "topics" and write the general train of thought that I have had with most of them, though not necessarily with this particular one.

Here goes:
1) I hear or read that sexual thoughts are sinful or some other trigger.
2) Instant panic, guilt: BAM. Unwanted mental image. Now I am seeing my female teacher naked in my mind. I feel frozen inside, with a sort of internal revulsion at myself.
3) Now every time I see her in reality, I see her taking her clothes off in my mind. I feel dirty and guilty and full of that horrible trembling, spastic, rubber-band feeling in your chest. Along with a compulsion to confess, because of guilt, the desire to make sure people know you aren't as good as you look or as they might think you are, and because she probably already knows from the blushing reaction I would have to my own thoughts. I don't think this is a paranoia issue as much as a ToM issue: not knowing how much people know about you from what they can see or not see in your "body language" or facial expressions and because the thoughts are so obvious to yourself and so alarming that you can't see how others wouldn't wonder if you were having those thoughts. Logically, you know they may not know. You have guilt for not telling them too and imagining how they might react if you did tell them and how others might react makes the revulsion and fear you experience towards the thoughts even stronger and makes the thoughts occur even more frequently.
4) I try to stop the thoughts from happening doing "mental ducks" around them, avoiding the teacher as she is a trigger, asking God for forgiveness, contemplating confessing them to the teacher, avoiding anything that even remotely suggests the thought. And as we know, you you say or think "pink elephant" you are going to picture a "pink elephant" so even the act of trying to stop it or avoid it becomes a trigger.
5) Amidst all of the above, you start to question your own sanity, your motives, and your value as a person. "Why does this keep happening? Am I perverted? I don't want this."
6) You hear from others or remember things you have heard before, such as, "If you didn't want the thought, you wouldn't have the thought." Or, "Thoughts beget actions." So, then the questions become, "What if I want these thoughts? If I really didn't want them, I could stop them." (This is some of that self-doubt stuff.) "If I am having these thoughts then I might act on them." And you hear all the time about those people who "snap." "What if I do act on it?" I cannot explain the terror this causes.
7) If it is combined with depression, like severe and major depression , it can get into the realms of its own "psychosis" where it becomes ego-syntonic. After so much doubt and anxiety and fear and lack of sleep and guilt and self-loathing, and just pure mental and physical exhaustion from battling it for so long, it can become, "I do want these thoughts". And/or, "It would be best to act on these thoughts." Major depression combined with OCD has its own special brand of "psychosis".

I really didn't do it justice there but that is my best for the moment I guess. I was untreated. My "pure O" and OCD weren't handled right and were treated as discipline and behavioral problems so I learned to conceal and internalize all this crap. Sometimes I thought my mom knew I was having these problems and didn't care; other times I didn't know I should tell someone; that didn't seem practical because I didn't know what they could do about it anyway and I wasn't able to take or accept comfort from others. I also strongly suspect that I was alexithymic and not connected enough with my own emotions to really express my concerns and also it always seemed like it was hard to convince my mom of my distress when I did happen to attempt it so maybe it was also a matter of it just not showing enough in my voice and face. Along with really intense shame and embarrassment and thinking I was the only one and might be a psychopath, I didn't tell anyone. Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't have been so agonizing if I had had more support from parents and counseling but then I would have been medicated so who knows.

Sorry for the "wall of text" here. You asked a "loaded" question, so here is a "loaded" answer.

Don't be sorry. You did a good job.

Thanks for the info.

f**k. I think I'm in trouble.

A therapist told me a few years ago that "normal" people (referring to those without OCD) also have these thoughts and images but they don't worry about them or the thoughts don't scare them as much. So, lately my mantra has been to sort of slip my alarm and anxiety about the thought under by saying in my mind, "That's ridiculous." And/or "Assign it no meaning." Because that isn't who I am and that's not something I want to do and that isn't something I will do. I don't have the confession compulsion as strong anymore. More often than not, this thinking can cut the pure O thoughts down to only coming for a week or two as opposed to weeks, months, or years. It doesn't pick up the same "momentum" if you will. But it has taken a generous dose of the grace of God, many years, and some development of personal security to get to this point. It isn't perfect and I have gotten a few pure O things that have really run me down but it's nothing on the scale it used to be. I should also add that perfectionism plays a big part in it as well. And I did actually confess to my preacher about two obsessions/compulsions and that was actually before I learned about OCD not after: one was HIV and the other I won't say (a pure O I don't want anyone else to pick up). He actually said he knew of one or two others who had had the same issue. It actually helped a lot to talk to him about things and to be given passages that were so relevant. If you want those I can put them here or send them in a PM. I don't know your religious beliefs so I don't want you to feel that I am "preaching" or forcing this on you. I just would be remiss if I did not mention it because it helped me so much. Of course, my mom definitely knew about the germs OCD because that is very obvious in the compulsions it produces. The pure O stuff is so much easier to hide.

I find that OCD sort of rides on a more basic fear than the one that it seems to "show". The real problem with the germs issue wasn't so much that I was afraid of getting HIV as I was afraid of death. Defeat the fear of death, and the fear of HIV really couldn't control me anymore and over a very long period of time it is almost completely gone. I still get minor attacks from it though: public pools are still a trigger for me but not so much that I completely avoid them. Now it's not so much the fear of death from it that feeds it, but the fear of me getting it and then passing it to my husband. And the fear of death isn't something that goes away permanently; I did that is something I deal with over and over again as most people who are not depressed probably do. Existential dread has been written about for ages.

Another thing, just being able to say or think "Oh, that's just my OCD." helps a lot. Kind of "deflates" the power of the fear that drives the obsession, if you will.

That's the outcome I would be sort-of hoping for, if OCD is the case for me.

That I could tell myself that all these fears of autism causing me to be abandoned, to be incarcerated, to lose my kids, to lose my personhood if I should make the least mistake in public are just my obsessional thinking, and I should stop allowing it to dictate my life.

Unfortunately, according to my husband who knows everything about me, I do not have OCD or any other anxiety disorder, and my brain wiring has not been profoundly and permanently altered by the events of the last decade (of which he and his family played a major part, which would be the reason for his denial of the fact, although what transpired is not in any way his fault but merely a natural NT reaction to an autistic "out of their place"). I am just a whiny little b***h who is using Asperger's as an excuse to avoid facing her depression and anxiety, and choosing to ruin everyone else's life in the process.

I wish I could lock him in a social experiment in which it would be socially unacceptable to have freckles (he has lots), to the point that being freckled alone would be cause to be suspected of being less intelligent, being incapable of caring for oneself, and being about to commit random acts of violence. Although being freckled would not de facto be a crime, it would predispose police to believe that you were at significantly elevated risk of performing a criminal act, and et cetera. Then he would have to go to work, and go to the store, and go to soccer practice, and Cub Scouts, and do business...

...all without allowing anyone to see his freckles, or to realize that he is very anxious and has poor self-esteem, or to realize that he is living under conditions that cause him to feel pain.

The problem that I see, where I am in deep doo-doo if this is OCD, is that the obsessional fears because ego-syntonic long ago. I am terrified of my autism, I work extremely hard to conceal it at any cost. That is not PART of who I am; it is the mainstay of my identity.

I will not take my life, because at least for the next 10 years (when the baby will be old enough for a house key) I have a job that must be done.

But I profoundly wish that [God] would see fit to put an end to my life in a sudden and tidy manner that does not endanger anyone else or inconvenience my loved ones any more than what is inevitable.

I don't want to describe what I see, but yes, instant guilt. I think "WHY AM I THINKING THIS?"

Hey, I hope to write a response tonight. Been processing what you said.

Well, computer problems/internet problems just deleted my response.

Anyway, in a sweetened, condensed version of what I previously wrote, I find my obsessions run on a bell curve. You can picture it with the usual presentation or in an inverted presentation. If the obsession isn't controlled before it starts to ascend up the curve, it gathers momentum and will run a course where it kind of controls you until it gets to the apex, where you get so sick of it that your logic and willpower can start to get a grip on the fear and anxiety and can actually start to counteract it in some ways. It's like a virus; it has to run its course and your immune system (logic, will power, common sense) can't get on top of it til it has managed to get itself firmly into your DNA. Does that make sense? From your posts, I suspect you are at the apex or getting close to it. You are on some level "fed up" with it and hate it.

When you say that "that" is the mainstay of your identity, do you mean that your opinion of yourself and the opinion you find others have of you is rooted in how well you cover up your autism? That when you mess up or if you show any sign that might even slightly be construed as being an autistic sign, that you feel like a failure as a person or feel or find that you are accused of being incompetent?

Yes, that sounds pretty familiar.

And yes, that is the condition under which I find myself living.

Are you going through a divorce or are you still living with your husband?

I asked that question because it makes a difference how much control you have over exposure to triggers, but it may have been too personal. I don't know your circumstances and was trying to understand the situation better. I am sorry if I offended you.

I don't really know what else to say regarding this OCD business other than that I hope you find a way out of it and a way to control it. Sometimes these pure O things never completely go away but they can become less prominent as you go on.

OCD can be really hard to understand and explain- even for people who experience it.

And I'm not doing the whole "I have it worse than you" thing, because that is not what I mean, but Pure Obsessional OCD is, I find, so much more difficult to explain than anything else I experience. I do experience other types of OCD but minimally in comparison. Pure O dehumanizes me.

This is one of the best explanations I have EVER found of it, however and I keep the bookmark easy to find because of it: http://www.ocduk.org/sites/default/file ... -o.pdf.pdf
It is not perfect, because like all things, it is a personal experience. But it really helps to explain a lot of things about it that are very difficult.

I haven't been feeling well lately- a good part of that is because I had to drop the med I take for OCD. It is one of the more commonly prescribed SSRI's for OCD and it makes an IMMENSE difference. I mention this because I realized I didn't mention any of this in my previous post. Because... while I walked around for years and years in what felt like an invisible prison, once we figured out what it was? Then we actually started treating for it. And I took meds for it [at some point, if it is severe enough- I don't care what anyone says- one can not just think oneself out of OCD. In the greatest severity CBT can't fix it all], and things got better.


I can actually talk about things now. Before diagnosis and long after it is very common to not be able to talk about a lot of it.

I used to write more about the OCD, and still some times do.
This is something I wrote at the beginning of 2010, only a few months before I was finally [thank god] formally diagnosed with OCD. The bizarreness of it is actually supposed to reflect how one knows that these thoughts are bizarre but you listen to them and believe them anyway. And to be clear- this isn't how everyone experiences OCD.

[it has potential to be triggering for some people because it's kind of explicit in terms of Pure OCD stuff- just to warn, which is why I'm leaving some space]
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Thanks for all the information. That could not have been easy. I really, really appreciate it. THANK YOU.

Yes, we're still together. I am determined to keep us together. I could not make it on my own, not with four kids, and I will not give them up without a fight. So I have to be OK enough to keep us together, no matter what.

As for OCD, I don't know whether it is or not. I don't know why the anxiety got SO MUCH WORSE (I mean I know what happened, but I don't know how to clinically classify it). I don't know how to treat it or what to do. I don't know where to go from here.

SignofLazarus, I am not at all against taking meds if you need them or want them, I am just glad I wasn't given anything as a young child because I really needed them and used them when I had postpartum so bad. I have a friend who also has pure O who has been on meds since she was 12 or so (she had a much later onset than me) and from what I can remember her telling me, she has had trouble with them working. I think the brain can get too used to them or become less sensitive to them so you have to keep increasing the dose, etc. I just think that if I had been on them since age 4 then they might have been completely useless when I got that postpartum. But then maybe it wouldn't have happened to begin with. And they don't know how these things affect brain development in children. I am glad they work for you. I have heard that pure O is notoriously resistant to treatment.

I had such bad contamination and pure O OCD in seventh and eighth grade that I should have been hospitalized and if I had had other parents, looking at other parents and how they handled their kids and things, I know they would have taken me straight to the hospital. I begged to be taken to the hospital; I wanted to be sedated so that I could sleep and not feel anything, so I could rest. It was one of the worst experiences of my life. I cannot explain it all. I can't describe it to make anyone else grasp the severity of it. It's one of those things where I wouldn't want someone to take the experience away from me because I learned a lot about myself and about God, but you couldn't pay me to do it again. It haunted me for years, always afraid that something like it would happen again and interfere with adult life activities, like marriage and stuff. I had no counseling by anyone in the mental health field and very little support at home. I didn't talk much at all and was often in my own little world, like I had been when I was four, like I had turned into a different child and that scared my mom. She said so. I internalized a lot of guilt and took a huge hit to my self-esteem over the years following because I was still processing it all, I lost some of that connection with God and how the problems I had would continue to affect my life and how I had to keep it from people and keep it under control to avoid hurting people emotionally by not being available or rejecting their touches. Nobody ever seemed to consider how it was affecting me and my psyche. I wish I had had more help and more acceptance with it from people. Punishment and guilt-tripping only make OCD worse. I probably could have used the meds but I didn't have that option.

I totally get the bizarreness of it. There are things I can't even explain, things I won't explain, and things that I cannot even understand that I have thought. I have had that thing where when driving on a dark road at night, I think about how people hit and run, and then I start to worry that I hit someone and have actually gone back a few times in one night to make sure I didn't hit anyone. There was ño one there, ever, but that fear and that pathological doubt they call it, I couldn't convince myself I hadn't hit anyone. It's the same thought pattern or thought twist as comes with the checking.

Often times, my pure O things are like yours, I think, if I am interpreting the gist of what you meant when you said "I am certain to tell you the most devastating thing you have ever heard" but won't say any more than that for the sake of avoiding triggers.

BuyerBeware, I think, from my perspective as an outsider and an observer of what you have said, I think one place to start is to forgive yourself for your imperfections and to accept yourself as a legitimate person. You are a valid person and you can do whatever it is you might need to do to get through this.