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magz
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25 Feb 2019, 3:05 am

My doc recently decided that I should switch from SSRI (Lexapro, escitalopram) to SNRI (Effectin, venlafaxine).
Before the switch I was lifeless and suicidal because it seemed the only way to really rest. I decided rest was the thing I needed.
Now I'm only 3 days on the new med and instead of lifeless, I'm horribly angry. I sleep poorly and dream of fighting. I want to hit things, punch people, scream and fight... and kill myself just to take action.
Has anyone had similar effects on SNRI? Did it change over time?


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AstroPi
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25 Feb 2019, 4:19 am

Przepraszam, ze sie wtracam, ale wydaje mi sie, ze efekty dzialania tego leku na innych sa malo istotne, liczy sie tylko to, jak dzialaja na Ciebie, jesli je zle znosisz powinnas o tym porozmawiac jak najszybciej ze swoim lekarzem. Pozdrawiam


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magz
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25 Feb 2019, 5:15 am

No doubt I will talk about it to my doc but I wanted to know if others had similar reaction because I'm not even sure if it's the drug or something else.


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AstroPi
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25 Feb 2019, 5:34 am

Still, it's quite useless, even if someone had such problem after taking this drug, it doesn't mean you have it too. It's the same if no one had this problem, doesn't mean you can't have it. Have you checked the drug's leaflet? Does it say anything about possible reaction like this? Have you changed your routine lately? Anything unusual happened lately? You don't need to answer this questions here, these are just questions you should ask yourself first.


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magz
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25 Feb 2019, 5:44 am

Of course I've read the leaflet. I always do. There is some risk of inducing mania and there is increased risk of agression.

I asked the question out of curiosity, mostly.
I like to know, I like to learn, I like to hear real life stories about things.
Got it?


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AstroPi
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25 Feb 2019, 5:54 am

magz wrote:
I like to know, I like to learn, I like to hear real life stories about things.
Got it?

I was taking this into consideration. I just thought that this part:
Quote:
I want to hit things, punch people, scream and fight... and kill myself just to take action.

is more important, and I've decided that if anything I can be your punching doll, so that you don't have to think about suicide. Sorry if I made things worse.


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magz
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25 Feb 2019, 6:08 am

Okay, thanks for your care :)
Fortunately, there is usually quite a difference between what I want and what I do :)
Instead of fighting people or harming myself, I turned on a fighting video game. This kind of games usually bore me but this time it's perfectly what I feel like doing.


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AstroPi
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25 Feb 2019, 6:23 am

:D You're welcome. You may also try to destroy some special toys/sheets of paper to get rid of it. Also I remember special rooms, where you can destroy everything inside ;) Cheers :)


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Voldemort
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28 Feb 2019, 6:35 am

I can’t remember which class of drug it is but when I was on seroxat I got very violent self harm thoughts. I wanted to smash my kneecaps in with a hammer and set myself on fire.

It’s perfectly possible for it to be the drug and I suggest you see your dr ASAP to get it looked into! I did and she was very alarmed and took me off it straight away.



magz
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28 Feb 2019, 7:41 am

Voldemort wrote:
I can’t remember which class of drug it is but when I was on seroxat I got very violent self harm thoughts. I wanted to smash my kneecaps in with a hammer and set myself on fire.

It’s perfectly possible for it to be the drug and I suggest you see your dr ASAP to get it looked into! I did and she was very alarmed and took me off it straight away.

Seroxat is SSRI.
A few days on, the anger got milder, some strange sensations in my limbs ended, thought I'm still very irritable and unrested.
My doc believes in me not doing anything stupid :)


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jimmy m
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28 Feb 2019, 11:35 am

I am not into taking drugs to relieve mental conditions, so I have no answers for you with types of medication. But I will try and provide a little insight. Our brain is composed of many separate components. Generally these can be describes as our core brain, our middle layer fight-or-flight response brain, and our outer social brain. When we encounter a threat, our brain structure collapses inward. If the social brain cannot handle the challenge, then it falls into a fight or flight response. We run away or we fight. That brain releases a cascade of hormones and chemicals that prepare our body for that response. These are released into the limbs. But unlike other animals, we can halt the process prematurely and not fight or run. Those unused hormones and chemicals are then stored into our muscles and nervous system as a result. They must be relieve or there will remain there and damage our body.

So when you say that you want to physically fight people, that is your body telling you that you must relieve this stress energy. This energy is stored in your 5 limbs (2 arms, 2 legs, neck). You can destress yourself by using up this stress energy, by following through with the impulse. But you must do this in a socially acceptable manner.

One of the things that researchers found was that exercise can eliminate this stress. But there is a secret here. Light and moderate exercise normally only reduces stress levels for a few minutes. For the stress reduction effects of exercise to be long-lasting one needs to performing maximal or supramaximal exercise. This is exercise where the intensity or individual’s maximal oxygen uptake (percentage of VO2max) is 100% or greater. Examples are sprints and power exercises.

So let us say that you want to relieve stored stress energy in your legs (a flight response) for long term (weeks/months). You need to perform maximal or supramaximal exercise for your legs. This simulates a flight response. Think of yourself alone in the savannah in Africa. You stumble across a tiger who thinks you might be a tasty meal. So you run so fast that your legs become a blur to escape this threat, all the time with the tiger right on your tail. So one way to replicate the release of this stored stress energy is to perform ten 6-second maximal sprints (a 50-meter dash), running like a bat out of hell with a 30 second recovery between each sprint.

To relieve stress energy locked away in your arms, you need to hit something. But this must be done in a socially acceptable manner. Use a punching bag, speed bag or even a pillow as a target. Strike the object as fast as you can and as many times as you can in 6 second burst. Move your arms/hands so fast that they become a blur. Perform ten (6-second burst) with a 30-second recovery time in-between. You don't need to punch the bag hard, a light touch will do. It is the speed of the strike that counts.

To relieve stress energy stored in your neck, vocal cords, and jaw, scream as loud as your can. Lions roar, bears growl, dogs bark and wolves snarl. The sound produces fears that can immobilize their prey. Herd animals will use vocalization to alert the herd of the predator’s presence. Many times it is the jaws of a predator that will rip their prey apart.

When an infant is in distress, the child will cry and scream. Individuals have been taught to constrain and control this action because this behavior is very disruptive. About the time a child sets off to school he begins to be ridiculed for crying – they are called “crybabies”. But by inhibiting this natural reaction, the stress energy is not vented but rather stored. And this stored energy needs to be vented and released in order to avoid distress. So the main question is “How does one scream in a socially acceptable manner as an adolescent or adult?

During a couple winters up in Chicago, Illinois, my father sold Christmas trees. I would help out. He taught me the art of barking. It was quite simple, really! Barking is one of the forms of salesmanship way back in the olden days. Our tree lot was at the outer end of a parking lot of a large store. I would scream out at the top of my lungs:

C-h-r-i-s-t-m-a-s T-r-e-e-s!
Come and get your C-h-r-i-s-t-m-a-s T-r-e-e-s!

Chicago is known as the windy city and there is a reason why it was so named. In the winter, when the snow was falling, the winds would howl. In order to bark, one had to be louder than the wind. And that was quite a challenge. But in the freezing cold and snow and howling winds, I discovered one of my hidden talents.

One needs to vent the stored stress energy in their neck muscles, vocal cords, and jaw. The best way is to scream at the top of your lungs several times. But this must be done in a socially acceptable manner. Never scream at a person. I live in the rural countryside and my dog is a free-range dog. When it is mealtime and my dog is up and about; I call my dog very loudly.

R-o-c-k-y. Come here puppy.
R-o-c-k-y.
R-o-c-k-y. Where are you puppy?
R-o-c-k-y.
R-o-c-k-y. Come here puppy.

I yell so loud that I can hear my voice being echoed back to me from nearby hills and mountains. My voice carries about a mile. The call is so strong that it borders on a roar. It is a very good feeling. It gives me a sense of great strength, like I could split a mountain in two just with my voice alone. I feel strong to my core. It is a great stress reliever or normalizer. And it is socially acceptable in the countryside.

One might try howling like a wolf at the moon. There is an individual in New York City that howls at the subway cars as they pass by deep down in the subway stations. But there are other ways to scream in a socially acceptable manner. A singer can do this if it is a very powerful song. A barker in the county fair can do this. A fan at a rock concert can sing along at the top of their lungs. Even a Girl Scout can practice barking in front of the local grocery store when she sells Girl Scout cookies. Or find yourself a soundproof room.

Golden Rule: Never scream AT someone. Because this would be interpreted as an attack, a verbal assault.


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magz
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28 Feb 2019, 12:17 pm

With all the respect, your model of brain does not match my current knowledge of neurology.
My fight or flight response is fairly unique... I enter "anti-panic mode" which makes me psychopatically calm and rational. Quite handy in real danger but damaging in long term stress because I'm not a psychopath, my emotions are neither shallow nor short lived, and they finally catch up, releasing all their force deep inside me.

Actually, the physical activities that make me feel better are those centered on calm and precision...


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jimmy m
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28 Feb 2019, 12:52 pm

magz wrote:
With all the respect, your model of brain does not match my current knowledge of neurology.
My fight or flight response is fairly unique... I enter "anti-panic mode" which makes me psychopatically calm and rational. Quite handy in real danger but damaging in long term stress because I'm not a psychopath, my emotions are neither shallow nor short lived, and they finally catch up, releasing all their force deep inside me.

Actually, the physical activities that make me feel better are those centered on calm and precision...


That is interesting. You sound a little like me. When I am under severe stress rather than collapsing into a panic attack (tonic immobility), I turn off my emotional brain completely and let my analytical brain take full charge. Therefore under severe stress, I do not feel fear, hate, anger, rage. I just do not feel any emotions. I let my analytical side take charge and figure out a solution and then I implement the solution. It is a little like being Spock on Star-Trek. Since my brain almost always figures a way out and since I implement the solution, I do not become trapped, therefore my stress does not lead to distress or trauma.

One of the traits of some Aspies are:
* fearless and risk taker - "seem to have no sense of guilt or of danger"
* calm in a crisis

If you possess those qualities, it is nice to meet you.


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Last edited by jimmy m on 28 Feb 2019, 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

magz
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28 Feb 2019, 1:00 pm

High five :)


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28 Feb 2019, 9:42 pm

Medications can have all kinds of dangerous side effects. If you're feeling odd on the medication then it could definitely be the medication.



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28 Feb 2019, 9:53 pm

When I took Remeron I felt very angry and suicidal. It's a tricyclic with some SNRI properties, but I don't think it's considered an SNRI med overall. I also tried Pristiq which worked very well, and it is classified as an SNRI.

As other members have said, it's important you speak to your doctor if this continues. It could just be the effect of your SSRI leaving your system, which can cause a lot of adverse reactions.


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