Gender Policing

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This is something that's been bugging for a long time. I'm sure you guys know about gender policing, which is people policing the behaviors based on a perceived sense of gender roles or norms. Examples would be phrases like "Skinny jeans are for fags. Real men wear normal pants," or "You like pink? You must be closeted." I'm not a fem guy, but I do have an androgynous state of mind, and I like to emulate that in my appearance. But because of that, I face statements like the ones listed above, as well as weird looks.

It also seems like gender policing is less common in women, which I envy a lot. Women don't go around calling each other dykes for doing something masculine, and they don't tell each other to get back in the kitchen or to be more feminine. To add another point, it seems like there are a good portion of women who like to police male gender behavior, which is hypocritical considering those women have broken out of many gender roles and have benefited from feminism, but want to keep men in their roles.

I know I'm ranting, but this crap is so prevalent in society, especially here in America. Does anyone else experience this a lot?

Ok over the years I have seen some interesting concepts.


For example, there's a strain of thought out of the midwest U.S. that if you are not sporting a huge gut and you are over 30, it means you are gay. I'm serious I was told this with a straight face.

There's another belief I have seen in the southeast where the wearing of any jeans other than blue was strictly for women. Therefore if you are a man and your denim jeans are not blue, you are cross-dressing. That one bothered me in particular because anything I wear other than black will become whatever color it was plus the stains from just about everything I get into.

Here's another funny out of the midwest. I knew a fellow who believed that if he didn't go to church on Sunday, he would be gambling and carousing all week. Seriously, that's what kept him from doing those things. I asked "what if the road is snowed in or something?". Nope. Didn't matter.

I can't breathe around some of these NTs.

One thing I fear is being seen in my underwear. It's mens underwear of course (anything otherwise would be a little, uh, constricting) but my undies are skimpy because anything other than the standard banana hammock bunches up and I "feel" it too much. They put me in boxers as a kid and I was rubbing myself raw, but even tightey whiteys are trouble because they are so thick. I tried boxer briefs with no luck. So I got the "underwear in a tube" (if you seen the old "Married with Children" episode when Al Bundy got "underwear in a tube" you'd know what I mean) and it works fine. I'm not trying to be a stud muffin, but I know if I get into the proverbial car accident there's going to be some funny looks.

"tucking" - something I did as a teenager when not wearing pants (beach, pool, etc) NOT to look feminine in fact I didn't even know the term but back then, I was very shy so when I went to the beach, I used nice tight speedos Under swim trunks and made sure things were pointing in a certain direction because pitching a tent (what with all those bikinis about) would have been absolutely die-on-the-spot mortifying to me. Also, because I notice EVERYTHING (but have facial recognition skills of a house plant), all those guys running about in speedos and "printing"... I mean c'mon I didn't send for UPS so spare me the package. So I also didn't want to be "that guy". I rarely went to the beach anyway.

If there was anything I could be cited by the gender police for, it would be the removal of a secondary male sex characteristic: all body and facial hair. Why? Wanting to be fem? No. Me and body hair are not good friends. After being picked on all through elementary school, guess who starts growing leg hair ahead of everybody else? That's right. Thanks, leg hair, for 4-5 years of my presence being loudly announced and associated with various simian references so much that most of the other kids didn't know my real name. It was real fun and just when it could be over, here comes shoulder hair, 3" long to wave off the women. Could I have shaved my legs? Of course! But.... that's what sissies, homos, and trannies do, you see? So, none of that for me. If I got caught doing that look out. It was bad enough the AS (not diagnosed back in the day so they assumed everything else) had me on a merry-go-round of counselors and visits from child psychiatrists from neighboring school districts. In fact that started in kindergarten! Why? Because I liked to play house with the girls - yet I was not playing house. The "house", an actual structure with walls, was more secure to me and less of a pain in the ass to deal with than the chaos all around during break time. And worse, being of they typical aspie mindset, I didn't think anybody not in "my group" - boys - was automatically gross and had cooties like the other group. That would be girls. So I got along with them. That "oddity" got a spotlight on me (plus auditory delays) so yeah, if I shaved my legs in junior high that attention would be just as bad. So what I did was wear sweat pants under my jeans on the days we have P.E, and never showed my legs again. Did I mention that underwear was enough torture? I would go all the way to graduation without once wearing shorts to school, no matter how hot it got.
My facial hair is a "swirl pattern" of short barbs that grow sideways, and thick. If I shave every day, I'll bleed all over the place. If I try for a beard (and I would have a ZZ Top beard if I could) the hairs get just long enough to stop when they are curling back at my skin. I tried to get past that stage, but could not. I think the only way would be to be sedated for a week or have someone put one of those big plastic cones on that they use for dogs. But, having been in the middle east, I have seen men with my kind of whiskers who probably didn't have the sensory issues about skin that I have: between collar and nose their faces looked like poodles with their throats cut.
But, if I had the time and money for the laser treatment I would exact my revenge on these follicles, but certainly everybody would think that was "gay" or something and I would be thought of as weird if I was to permanently lose the stubble. "Oh you say you are not getting a sex change? Suuuuuure you're not". That would end in me telling them to f**k off, and when I go there, things get worse in my life.

And the icing on the cake: I grow my hair long. Wow, wanting to get rid of whiskers and having long hair - might as well get a boob job too, right? Well, when I live in a hot climate I happily buzz my head weekly, down to stubble. In a cold climate, I will be aware of every little cold draft that hits my neck and dome. So I grow my hair long. But a normal haircut I cannot do. I have follicle issues. My hair is a collection of thick tufts that either removal (head shaving) or gravity can take care of. In between, a "normal style", means that in a week I am a "shrub head" because it grows fast. One of my template AS features: despising the barber shop, talking to them (more like not wanting to), deciding on the cut, etc. I'll just grow it long and when I have a lot to spare I donate it to be made into wigs for people who lost their hair to illness. Oh and because of that, I find that to have hair worthy of that end, it must not be a big dried up tangle - that means hair care methods similar to (wait for it) what women do! Har har. But do this day I won't leave my hair wrapped up in a towel (one of the lasting images of my oldest sister who routinely washed her hair on the same day each week) even when alone. So I am like someone afraid to run a stop sign in the middle of nowhere; since the gender police is always prevalent.


Luckily now I have a job that does not require being clean shaven and hair cut short, and my girlfriend does not mind if I trim the fur back a little (I don't stink up so fast).

Glad to get that off my chest (along with a little hair too, using the NO. 3 adapter on the shaver )

I am a woman, and it happens to me quite frequently. I also see it happening to other women constantly. I don't think it happens any less frequently to women then it does to men.

a recent example would be this article - http://m.jezebel.com/5941127/sparkly-na ... oman+child

If we like playing Boggle, painting our nails, or whatever, we're failing at being women. Another example would be the plethora of articles and commentary about female athletes in the Olympics not being appropriately female looking(as in their boobs etc)

If we diet, we aren't real women. If we choose a career or anything over crapping out babies then we are failing at being female. If we don't wear the right clothes etc then we aren't feminine enough or we are too feminine. If we have strong opinions and voice them then we are trying to be like men. The sad part is that it's usually women gender policing other women. I think for women it's more often enforced in interpersonal relationships.

I have encountered numerous men and women who treated me poorly and some even became threatening because I look appropriately female but I date women and I'm far too opinionated for their tastes. I'm told frequently to stop behaving like a man. I didn't encounter much in early childhood because the person who raised me didn't want to enforce gender norms on me. I think that's why I don't have any drive to play a role for people to ease their tiny liittle minds.

It's a bunch of BS. Gender roles are an unnecessary burden.

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I disagree with you guys for the most part on this issue.

While I leave most people alone on sexual orientation (as it's a mental wiring, i.e. unchangable), I DO judge people on gender roles.
I mean, I don't voice my opinions about specific people, but I do see guys who act feminine (or don't adjust their voices) and I don't see them as "real men", masculine or whatever.
Obviously biologically, but not emotionally.
Or I don't take them seriously.
I mean I'm nice to them or whatever, but...ya know.
It's the same with chicks, though since I'm male, I'm kinda lenient (hey, it's biology, man).

I don't think working for pay or having strong opinions are masculine things.

Though I do believe in the typical "mother takes care of the kids, dad goes out to work" situation, it's not like you can't do both, if you can take care of your first job.

That's the problem, people assume by default that if you have a vagina you will have a baby/babies at some point.

A lot of women are choosing not to have children now and a lot of us wouldn't be doing that with a dad even if we were having kids.

I get crap for that on a daily basis.

But I don't think silent judgment counts as gender policing. I think this is about messages we get from society at large and comments from individuals etc.

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the reason men are criticized for acting feminine whereas women are criticized less often for acting masculine is because femininity is considered negative. masculinity is the norm. men are expected to act masculine because femininity is perceived as weak and lesser than masculinity. which is not to say that women are never criticized for acting masculine - that happens frequently, but I've heard people say that women have more freedom than men because they can act masculine or feminine, whereas men can only act masculine. it's not an issue of women having more privilege than men, because they don't. it's an issue of femininity being perceived as negative because of its association with women. gender policing occurs for both genders, from both genders, but no matter who it comes from or whom it is directed towards, it has its roots in misogyny. women wearing pants is acceptable, but a man wearing a skirt is not. why? because a skirt is feminine. this is a bit of a generalization, but to society, masculinity = good, strong, acceptable and femininity = weak, submissive, unacceptable. there isn't any favorability for women involved. men are criticized for acting or looking like women because being a woman is still viewed as being inferior. it isn't a conscious view, but rather one that has been integrated into society and inserted subliminally into most areas of life, so people don't even realize that they hold the view.

the problem is not men fearing what people will think of them if they act feminine, but rather the fact that society's general attitude is "make men who act feminine feel bad" in the first place.

Gender roles are bs arbitrary rules made by society. I don't follow them and follow my own inclinations.

Last year I even got a couple of knee length men's shorts and wore them a few times in the summer when it was hot, baring my unshaved legs. I quit shaving except once in a while I might shave under my arms or trim my down there a bit with small scissors when it's too bushy and annoys me. I don't ever wear make-up.

I think gender policing happens to women in a different way.

With men unfortunately I think it just reflects on how society sees women: as in, "why would a man want to lower himself into behaving like a woman?" If we see a woman in a trouser suit, she's seen to be powerful, probably successful. If a man wears something which is deemed feminine, he's seen as a laughing stock or gay. A lot of it stems from women being seen as lesser.

I was at a bus stop yesterday where a mother and daughter were bullying their son/brother, calling him a girl because of something he'd said/done, saying "Why are you trying to be a girl?" The little boy was crying, saying "I'm not a girl!"

It amazes me that in this day and age, people can't understand that we're all different and at different places on so many different scales.

It's not just straight people who practice gender policing. I recently expressed the opinion that another man didn't look "hot" to me. To him, this has become de facto evidence of homophobia. I'm not homophobic; I'm gynotropic.

Why is it that unless a straight male drools and gushes over a gay male, the gender police automatically assume that the straight male is homophobic?

I can relate to the initiator of the thread.

I am a male and I feel gender policing against men are worse. After all when people talk about equality, they tend to have women's interests in mind rather than both. So the term "equality" is used so that women benefit from it. For example, I noticed that at work, when a man says "It's a ladys' task", he gets in serious trouble for being sexist, but there are many tasks that only men have to do as if there's no such thing as gender equality. If a man complains about that, some will disapprove of him for being "unmanly". Whatever the cause of this sort of double standards, this is pure sexism in a true sense. There are other examples I could mention, but I don't to avoid being lengthy.

I think the liberation from gender roles has happened to a much greater extent for women than for men. That's why people are not even aware of a lot of sex discrimination against men. And those men who are aware of it cannot really say it because the society disapproves of them as being unmanly, whereas a woman who "stands up for women's rights" are regarded as "brave". So, at the moment men don't even have the means for achieving equality and liberation from gender role.

I want to write a bit more, but I don't want to be too lengthy. So I stop here.

I think a Men's Liberation movement is much needed, but sadly, I don't see many men that would care to take part.