is it true that gay men speak differently from straight men?

Post Reply New Topic

Now we've moved on to ad hominem attacks? That's interesting. I thought I was discussing the rights of people not to be defined by a stereotype.

Speak to those girls in South Africa who are "correctively" raped because they dress a certain way, or wear their hair a certain way, or speak in a certain manner. They might be lesbians!

If that makes me "insecure", then I respectfully withdraw from this website. I do not want to associate with double standards, least of all by a group of people (with whom I identify) fighting for their own space on the human dignity platform, who cannot respect the rights of another group to do the same.

Aunt Blabby, don't change one single word of your poll!

I am interested to see how your point of view will change. So far I don't see a lot of evidence of it. You are chafing against the notion of stereotype and I see no evidence that you will ever come around to a more moderate point of view. But I will attempt to coax you, nonetheless.

Some gay men conform to stereotype. Some gay men choose to affect stereotypical behaviours and speech patterns from time to time. Some gay men eschew them. There is an element of choice in here. Every gay man is free to express himself as he sees fit, and that applies as much to the lispy queen as it applies to you or to me. (Let me be clear, I don't see you suggesting otherwise--I just want to set the groundwork.)

Now what of these men who choose to conform to stereotype? Are you suggesting that the men who affect these behaviors are also setting the gay rights movement back 40 years? After all, it is their behavior that has, in part, prompted people to vote in this poll as they have. I suggest otherwise. It wasn't the men who could pass for straight who started the gay liberation movement. Early homophile organizations like the Mattachine Society were started by men who refused to "pass." It was the drag queens who were responsible for, "The Sacred Throwing of the Parking Meter."

If anybody is putting the movement back forty years it is people who insist that gay men are no different that straight men. We are different--and I am thankful that we are. We should rejoice in that difference.

It is your point of view that is the repressive one. Harry Hay once said: "I don't want to be mistaken for heterosexual ever again!" If there was ever a succint statement of gay liberation in the United States, it is those ten words. So when a gay man chooses to put on the accent--and we are all capable of doing it if we want to--that is an affirmative choice on his part to express himself the way that he wants to.

Now, I certainly understand that a gay man who chooses not to conform to stereotype is getting uncritically grouped in with those who do. But that is not the fault of those who choose to conform to it, it is not the fault of those who observe the existence of the stereotype, either. You are quite right to want to be seen separate and apart from the stereotypes, but you are responsible for how the world sees you and you cannot expect others to change their behaviour, or to ignore what they see simply because it makes you uncomfortable. Take responsibility for your own image without trying to suppress someone else's.



I was prepared to extend a degree of respect to your position until you wrote those words. You are perfectly right and reasonable to take offence at what another poster has written, and to express that offence. But you do not get to decide what other people post.

"The question can stay?!?" You, "cannot allow it to stand in its current form?!?" From my perspective, if there is anything offensive in this thred it is these sentences.



I think that you have done yourself an enourmous disservice. You have created a firestorm through your impassioned reaction, and we are all engaged on you, rather than on the important issue that you attempted to raise. In government this is called, "playing the man and not the ball," we divert attention away from substantive issues by focussing on the person that raised the issues.

For the record, I really like ice cream.

Visagrunt, I am not going to quote your entire post, to save our eyeballs from further strain, but you have made a strong argument and I am willing to concede some points. We should talk more in the future. I enjoy having my world view challenged.

I will address your points in a private message if you're interested. I think I've said enough here already.

I think what you are talking about is the camp voice.

I can say that some of my gay boys have a camp voice but most do not, and on the vauxall gay scene it's rather frowned upon as men like to be men!

But I have met my fair share of camp bottoms and luvvies.


Not many speak like kenneth Willaims but I think most straights think they do though which is utter garbage!

i do too , especially diet [ALWAYS diet!] dark chocolate and butter brickle and strawberry. i sure wish somebody would make a diet rainbow sherbet!
anyways, thank you so much for defending me. i am not good at defending myself and furthermore strive normally to just ignore those who are hypercritical with me. in my typically clueless way i simply had no idea that merely asking a question would bring out such anger from a person. i mean, the only really stupid question is one which is not asked. i put it in poll form so as to invite as wide a variety of opinions/facts as could be arranged here on WP. i was hoping that my wording was careful enough to avoid the american-style censoriousness so evident these days. it bears repeating here that the root of this thread has to do with a recent preliminary study pointing out a fairly subtle speech trait found in some gay men-

(clicky)the original link was to this page, called "gay or straight? his speech may give a hint"-

it was differences in the prominence of some spoken vowels in some gay men's speech [compared with the straight control group] which were being demonstrated in the above linked study, and NOT the stereotypical sibilance we all know about. in the study, the sibilance of some speakers threw some folk for a loop, fooling some into believing a subject was gay when in fact he was straight. clueless me-myself-I have been stupidly fooled in this manner, also. this cluelessness of mine is probably why i am terminally single and alone. c'est la vie. anyways, this study pointed out subtle differences in much the same manner as an earlier study which pointed out subtle gait differences in a selection of gay versus straight men, who were studied while walking. to me, these things are mysterious and fascinating, relating to the question of how and why the creator designed us all as the creator did, however the creator did it.

Is it true that gay men speak differently to straight men? No.
Is it true that some gay men speak differently to some straight men? Yes.
Is it true that I overreacted? Yes.

I apologise. James set me straight (no pun intended!), and I will respond to him, in private, with my views.

I did not mean to offend you. The topic itself is interesting and does warrant discussion.

I love ice cream too. My favourite is chocolate.

Truce?

but this gay man [moi] probably does, although it is below the level of his conscious thought.

which would include me.

we all have our moments. some of mine belong in a shameful coffeetable tome which should be kept in the back shelf of the storage shed next to the 1970s platform shoes and the bellbottoms.

no prob. you know, the golden rule and all that.

de rien we live in a contentious era. the ancient chinese were prescient when they would say to their enemies, "may your descendants live in interesting times." god's handiwork is always good fodder for further study, as it has fractal dimensions of mystery which we mere mortals can never but scratch the surface of before running out of juice.

any kind of chocolate is fine, as long as it's diet. gotta watch the waistline before it turns into a wasteline.

indubitably

Also I get told my son 'sounds' and 'looks' gay by gay boys taht I know. and some girls. He sees it as a compliment actually.

He is straight.

^^^
sounds like he has a good head on his shoulders

Some do speak differently & i notice that I sometimes start speaking different when I am talking to them. I'm NOT trying to but it sometimes happens. My voice gets different & I use different slag, words & phrases. I also sometimes even move my body differently. I'm NOT gay but I'm NOT masculine & I'm kind of on the asexuality spectrum

Most of the gay men I've ever known do have that "gay voice." However, I've observed that there are multiple ways a gay man can speak that could hint that he's gay. There's the stereotypical campy voice, and then there's that soft toned voice that a lot of them have as well.

However, I have met a handful of gay men who don't sound stereotypically gay at all. There are a lot of parallels between homosexuals and Aspies, in my opinion. There are a number of traits that are often observed in both groups, but are not actually traits required for determining if one is gay or an Aspie.

At the risk of being a thread hijacker I'd like to explore a different aspect of this question.

Do gay men have a different mode of speech? Quite separate and apart from articulation, there are other traits with which to compare the oral language of distinct groups. I'll try to clarify what I mean with some examples

In the stereotypical gay patois there are many words whose particular use forms part of campy speech. For example, naming everyone Mary. The exaggerated use of figures of speech: Straight men are physiologically incapable of saying, "Oh look, Mary, a slaughterhouse! Let's turn it into a disco!" (two examples for the price of one it that sentence!)

But it's not restricted to camp speech. When we use the word, "partner," it seems to me universally understood parmi nous that the the word means, "the man that I am in a common law relationship with." But there continue to be straights for whom the primary sense of the word is, "the person that I am in business with."

So are there other aspects to our communication that serve to identify us to each other? Does the 'regular' gay man who eschews the camp inflection still signal his membership in the fraternity in other ways?

I would say yes. Based on anecdotal experience I have witnessed this to be true in instances. I am not one to spend much time amongst gay men but the time that I have spent has shown this at least in my perspective to be true. There are plenty of code words and phrases that are meant to be given as clues to signal orientation that are unlikely to be used by those who are not aware of what their other meaning may be. From what I understand language has been used like this in the gay community since the Stonewall Riots at the very least. That said I am usually oblivious to its meaning until the situation has passed and I dedicate time to reviewing every aspect of the situation.

I'm not sure if I would say that straight men are physiologically incapable of using such phrases though as I have also known a few who were very in tune with and friendly towards the gay community.

Hmm... I wouldn't think that I speak with a gay accent or vocabulary. But a few years ago someone asked if I was gay, citing the way I talk as making him suspicious. This was before I'd even admitted to myself that I'm gay, so obviously I hadn't been surrounded by the culture. When I hear recordings of myself I sometimes see (well, hear) what he meant though. And I do have a somewhat strange way of phrasing things, but I think that comes more from AS and nerdyness.

I know my uncle, who is gay, seems to be able to switch in and out of these sort of mannerisms. (Interestingly, my Mom once observed that although I have very little contact with this uncle, we share certain mannerisms). When he's with family and his partner, he does conform somewhat to the stereotypical language, although not the accent. He overuses the word "stunning" for instance. But in public (and presumably in a work setting) he drops that. His partner on the other hand is fairly stereotypical in his speaking, accent and all. Although sometimes I think he's exaggerating it just as a joke. So those are the anecdotes I have (which make up almost my entire experience with other gays).

i don't speak gay, but i do speak dweeb. and since i don't do body language, the lions' share of signals just sails over my head.