XFilesGeek's Guide to Transphobia!

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Go, winter breaks and boredom--it's why I'm here and reading.

Good reporting and succinct writing, OP. Nice to include the DOI numbers for in-depth reading.

I would also throw in some reporting on cultural and economic biases. Those binary gender systems aren't going to self-report on themselves.

Actually, it does. The reason people murder us is because of other people, like you, saying we're full of nonsense, etc. and perpetuating the "mutilation"/"psycho" myths. Congratulations on actively contributing to life being so hard for an oppressed minority.

Go XFilesGeek, by the way - thanks for taking the time to write these out!

Transphobe: "But a person with a Y-chromosome is still technically male! and a person with two X chromosomes in female!"

With the exception of people who have:

Swyers syndrome
XXY chromosomes (Klinefelter syndrome)
XXXY chromosomes
XO chromosomes (turners syndrome)

there is also:
XYY
XXX
XXXX
De La Chapelle syndrome
XXXY
XXXXY
XXYY

And genetalia is a whole different ballgame

You have normal genetalia
deformed genetalia,
very small genetalia
a penis with a slit in it
a penis with a small hole below it
no genetalia at all

Also according to my biology textbook and just about every description so far, women can bear offspring or produce eggs, while men produce spermatozoa. XY and XX are not mentioned in there, and since I cannot do either of the things mentioned above, I guess I am neither a male OR a female... but I guess this description also states that:

infertile women
women/men who had to get their reproductive parts removed
infertile men
or anyone with a deformed parts causing them to be unable to produce eggs or sperm

So the whole "male vs female" thing has always confused me... as science never really backed up what exactly these things mentioned above are... is XXY male because of the Y, or female due to the XX? transphobes always confuse me when they try to talk science.

There is a lot of people with no gender or undefined gender out there...

Transphobe: "Transsexual isn't natural and doesn't happen in nature!!"

Neither does airconditioner, showers, television, clothes, glasses, football, or anything like that... maybe we should go back to living like all natural cave-men

So, never met a genderqueer person or a gender-neutral person, for whom this is their very aim? To be free of being boxed as male, or female? Or, crazier still, an ASEXUAL genderqueer who has absolutely no interest in romance? Whose interest is in this day-to-day gender freedom?
Other than that, I'll shut up because I've no interest in getting into a debate or trying to educate people who don't care.

That's not reality. It's an oversimplified black & white world view.

The reality is that both morphological and neurological gender traits, as well as hormone levels, vary greatly between individuals. As a result, mammalian gender is on a spectrum. The only reason that most specimen are somewhere near the two ends of the spectrum is sexual selection. Males select for particularly feminine partners, whereas females select for very masculine partners.

But there will always be individuals who are closer to the middle of the spectrum, as well as people who possess neurological and morphological traits that are on opposite sides of the spectrum. This can't be "treated with psychological techniques". Psychology is a pseudo-science that cannot change neurological traits.

^^^ This.

Btw, all of these things happen in nature (I always wonder why transphobes and homophobes exclude humans when they talk about nature). Homo- and bisexuality, opposite-sex behavior, and intersex conditions have all been observed in many non-human animal species.

People like RikersBeard apply to this bizarre philosophy that if they don't like something, all they have to do is deny it exists as hard as they can until the very fabric of reality re-weaves itself to fit their proclivities. They're sadly mistaken, of course. But it's not usually worth the trouble arguing with someone like that. If there's honestly anything phobic about him, it's probably some fear that he'll find a MtF attractive, and subsequently will throw his inherent manliness into question. As well as his heterosexuality because every dogged uber manly-man like him knows that straightness and manliness are completely synonymous. And if you think that kind of attitude is annoying in an internet poster, imagine having to live with someone like that... >_<

Honestly, I wish I had more to add. But I really just wanted to emphasize the ignorance RikersBeard is displaying here.

Transphobe: I can't accept transsexuals as the gender they say the are because it doesn't feel right

I'm not going to structure a general response to this one, as these people are beyond hope. I'll just point out this one thing: Since the day I transitioned, I have never been mistaken for a girl. Not ever. Ever. I'm not even on hormones yet. Back when I lived as female, people never accepted me as one. It never felt right, for me or them. Now, I live stealth, and no one knows. This is the exact reason why I don't bother telling people, because the majority of the population feels this way. But they can't say it doesn't feel right to me, because I know damn well it does.

Yes, thats exactly why I don't tell people. Its not a mental illness, as any specialist in the area will tell you, and it hasn't ever been cured by psychological techniques. And FYI, they always do try before letting you have proper treatment. And its not false hope, its reality. Not your idea of it, which would lead to a 90% suicide rate.

That's great, Hexagon! I want to headbutt you right now (that's one of my signs of strong happiness directed toward a person). I'm really glad they accept you, and I like your response to the ignorant people.

I about this subject far to well. Am I transsexual problem not. Crossdresser problem. Androgynous maybe. Like many who are crossdress or androgynous are behind the close doors. Because part me. Fears the negatives of how the society treat me badly! Another reason a gravitate towards the girls clothes. And shoes. But not in public. A minor or major is how you look at it the women's foot ware is limited to certain size. Girls can wear men's shoes get away with it.


I know in some places things are changing but. Is for the good. Or is it limited.


I also knew a few crossdressers , and one or two transsexual. But I don't think their have Asperger's syndrome. Its been many, many years. And can at that time I never heard of Asperger's syndrome. Or the endless problems. Gifts or Asperger the information wasn't out there for the people who needed it!

This post came back from the grave...

Regardless, I have a few things to say as a pre-op MTF transsexual.

1) Science is way behind the curve on treating the mental part of being transgender. There is no technique out there currently for taking someones mind that is at odds with their bodies outwards sex and making it match. On the other hand, science has made very good progress with techniques, medicine, and procedures to make the bodies outwards appearance match the mind in that body.

2) I wouldn't wish being transgendered or intersexed in any of its forms on anyone having to live in any of the societies currently on Earth. I joke around that I apparently at some point selected the hard mode of life to play, but tha'ts a lie. I didn't choose this. This is something that there isn't a choice in getting.

3) Boobs are awesome, and having my own is great, even if they hurt, and I have to take extra precautions not to hit, or squash or mistreat them.

4) If science and tech was advanced enough to have a technique or procedure that would let me match my brain to my body and not the other way around, I would have jumped on that in a heartbeat and taken it, but see #1 because it doesn't exist.

That is all.

I change back and forth between masculine and feminine so I can't think of a procedure that would be able to keep up with that, except maybe adding on a penis to what's already there, but I'm sketchy about that. Generally I just make cosmetic changes (clothes, how I do my hair, what jewelry I do or do not wear). I see no reason to go around telling people, "Oh, I'm a man today." I am open and honest when the subject comes up, of course.

I am annoyed by people like Rikersbeard who think who a person is should be treated and changed when it doesn't actually affect anybody else and isn't doing and harm to the person. Something is only an illness, mental or otherwise, when it impacts them negatively. Otherwise it's none of his business and he should respect the person for who they are like he would anybody else.

I'm gonna analyze your arguments

Of course, you can't cure TG brains nor you can't cure homosexual brain and so on without risking major brain damages which makes it counterintuitive. Theoretically, it is possible for a stroke to alter a TG brain to the point where the person is no longer that gender as there are documented case of people whose sexuality has changed as a result of major brain changes which is illness, accident, and so on.

- Chris Birch Case
- Altered Sexual Orientation Following Dominant Hemisphere Infract
- Multiple cases of sexual orientation or sexual behavior changes following stroke
- Adventitious change in homosexual behavior during treatment of social phobia with phenelzine.

These are documented case of fluid sexuality as a result of illness, accident, and so on.

Brain changes have been observed and there is plenty of evidence that brain changes are natural to many. Sexuality can change as a result of brain changes even without illness, accident, and so on because of this very principle. However, sexual orientation changes as a result of slow brain changes due to genetic disposition and environmental influence is very rare, but much more common than ones induced by illness, accident, and so on.

But the point is there that you can't really risk brain changes if you're going to attempt to induce major brain changes against their will.

Anyways, as for your study about transgender brain, there is two major problems.
Problem #1- Extremely low sample size
Problem #2- Due to extremely low sample size, there is probability of high errors. Not to mention, you can't test overlap well with small sample size. Overlapping traits would disprove the notion of objective gender. Non-overlapping traits would gain credence to objective gender.
Problem #3- Separate study still have low sample size and goes against the main study.

Here's a counter-study - Male or Female? Brains are Intersexed
The study still have problem such as it needs verification of the analysis, but it is predictable and it does have evidence of the non-existence of objective gender. To verify the counter-study, one must have a large sample size and look at overlapping characteristics. There isn't much studies that looks into overlap of the brain and that's a problem because we don't have verification on whether objective gender exists.

If one uses the counter-study with studies that points to the fact that male and female are from earth psychology, then there is a big problem with the existence of objective gender. If we use the studies from Harry Reis and Bobbi Carothers, Hyde, and other authors that found no to little differences, then we could hypothesize that similarities in psychology strongly suggests overlaps between the brains. It also suggests differences between the two sexes is really down to societal conditioning and the biological inherent aspects isn't all that relevant.

As someone who's a proponent that gender does not exist beyond body perception, I can only accept the idea that the brain area regarding body perception is what determines one's gender. As someone who tries looking at differences between males and females my entire life, I can only say that they're far more similar in psychology and the brain. That's my opinion.

I wonder if XFilesGeek is still offering support for this thread

The problem of gender and what makes someone belong to a certain gender is related, in my opinion, with the problem of universals. What is "maleness" and "femaleness"? Why do I say that person x is a guy and person y is a girl? I tend towards the idealist approach; although such concepts don't exist in the physical world or some sort of metaphysical one, they do exist in my mind and in the mind of other human beings. Men and women, as humans, tend to share certain properties, but tend to differ in others (primary, secondary, and tertiary sex characteristics, clothing, demeanor, XX or XY, voice tone, etc.) And although most people tend to fall clearly within one of those two categories, there are always exceptions, which are what brought me here.
To me, someone being successfully transgendered would mean that this person went from being in one extreme, or somewhere in the middle, to another extrem, in terms of having mostly male vs mostly female properties. I remember seeing a pic of a bald, buff, hairy guy who from the description had a gruff voice and behaved like a man, who used to be a woman and apparently had female genitalia; to me that person would be mostly male and I'd treat him as a male. I wouldn't take into account what he was before, but what he is right now. He doesn't fall neatly into the male category though, as this category has properties such as "men have penises" or "men don't have uteruses", but about the first one, would a man who loses his genitalia stop being a man? The same can be done in reverse, a fundamental property of women is being able to have children, but a woman who undergoes an histerectomy does not stop being a woman either.
I do wonder when can someone consider themselves one gender or the other. Like, if a very stereotypical Chuck Norris, with cowboy hat and beard and muscles and all told me he was a woman, am I obligated to agree and treat him as a woman? I'd say no; within the culture I was brought in and where we both live in, he has mostly male properties, and although it would be sad if he had a female brain, he should also make an effort to fit in and seek having more female properties if he wanted to be taken seriously. Or let's take someone in the early stages of transgenderism, MtF, where it is still noticeable that person is not the gender he appears to be. I wouldn't treat that person as male, but the cognitive dissonance would be too much to treat her as female either, I'd use the feminine article on her out of respect but in my mind I'd create a new "transgender" category and put her in it. And another MtF who had fully underwent that process, surgery and all, with female appearance, voice, behaviour, etc, well, I'd say she is a woman, perhaps sterile but a woman nevertheless.

If someone wants to get there gender changed it is none of my concern. I have no phobia of it what so ever. I just don't get why it upsets people so much. So this guy wants to be a girl or this girl wants to be a guy, whatever, it's up to them. I am not trying to diminish a transgender situation. What I mean is that transgender phobes act like drama queens. If I knew a trans person I would be cool with them.

A message to trans out there.....
There is nothing wrong with you, do not be ashamed. Just take a look around, LG people can get married! A few decades ago that was inconceivable. Even though it takes time things do get better for minorities. It won't be this bad forever.