Queer-on-queer hate bingo

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To echo the earlier posters, this is not quite true. There is male, there is female, and there is a grey area in the middle. This is the equivalent of "it's complicated" on Facebook for those not single yet not in a relationship.

And that's just the physical aspect. What about people whose gender identity is androgynous or third-gender? You can have totally normal male or female bits down there and still reject the binary. Arguably, who you are as a person is more significant to your identity than what your body is shaped like, anyway.

Makes me wonder how many people identifying as "bisexual" are actually "pansexual" and are just using bisexual for convenience's sake because people understand it. It's not too much of a jump from being attracted to both genders to being attracted to the people who don't quite fit into either one.

But then, once you get to that point, you start to want to just dump the labels and go, "I'm attracted to whoever I happen to find aesthetically pleasing, interesting to hang out with, sexually arousing, or generally attractive," which is true of everybody (even asexual/aromantics, who can answer that question with "nobody").

Sooner or later, if we get our heads straight, I think we'll use labels like gay or straight more like shortcuts to tell other people who our potential dating pool is, and less like identities, because it'll be understood that you like who you like and that's it. Maybe that's a controversial viewpoint--the idea that gay subculture (and other such subcultures based on sexual/gender differences) will fade into the general population as everybody starts to agree that people are individuals rather than representatives of their particular orientations... I don't think it will happen for a while yet, though. My generation still has subconscious stereotypes to deal with, and some are outright bigoted. I think we've got a couple hundred years to go yet before "gay" is considered more of a personality trait, like "extroverted"--something that might determine who you hang out with, but only because you have more in common; not because you're rejected by the majority.

I really forget that the world isn't like that already. In England there isn't much homophobia really, I mean, I have a large collection of gay friends and none of us have experienced homophobic abuse (although a large about of transphobic abuse). Maybe we're just lucky. I'm always surprised when people are bigoted.

What I meant was, there are not only two sexes. Intersex (and yes, I know there are multiple different variations of it) has been the term given to those whose genetic make-up and physical appearance are not exclusively male or female. Grey might be made up of both black and white but it (and all it's shades) is it's own unique color. The same is true for intersex (and it's variations); while it's a bridge between male and female, it's still unique, and separate from the others.

To state otherwise is ridiculous.

Don't get me wrong- the phrases and ideas on this "bingo board" annoy me too, but what I personally find annoying is how countless full-on MTF transgenders (who have exactly zero characteristics of the "man" gender and exactly infinity characteristics of the "woman" gender) label themselves as being "androgynous."

And don't hate on me for complaining about that, because it's not like they're expressing gender-diversity (or solidarity with it) by doing that. They're straight-up misrepresenting who they are, giving themselves false labels. They are lying. It is insulting and disrespectful to those of us who actually *are* androgynes in terms of gender identity and expression.

Back to the OP's first post in this thread, I just started my own thread that relates quite a bit to the statement found in the top row of the "G" column. I really don't understand why people (*coughcoughMANYGAYMENcoughcough*) seem to think that way.

Also, the second-from-the-bottom statement in the "I" column makes me not want to interact with other members of my species.

I totally agree with everything written here. I'm also very wary of creating secret-handshake words that are potentially alienating to people who don't spend all their free time reading up about LGBT theory on tumblr. Bisexual is a good enough word for me.

But think about why they might be doing that. Think about how badly trans people are treated. They have lived their whole lives with the world telling them that there's no such thing as a woman born with guy parts and that if you happen to be one, you're delusional, sick, perverted, wrong. Think of all the internalized prejudice. They've been taught to hate what they are. Is it really so surprising that some of them might try to ease into it by identifying as androgynous instead of transgendered--or just to be so afraid of censure that they deny being female at all? Yes, it's horrible to have to play-act as somebody you're not; but it's also horrible to be rejected and abused when you admit being who you are.

Your annoyance with this phenomenon makes sense, and I can't really "hate on" you for it either. Androgyny is even less well-known than intersex or transgendered, and you want to establish it as something distinct from either one. But--still--perhaps you could look at this as a symptom of the generally bad way people get treated if they don't fit into the gender binary. Somebody might be claiming a label they don't actually fit, but they are still people who have a lot of the same struggles as you. It's a lot like when you see someone with social anxiety disorder or ADHD identifying as autistic when they're not--yeah, they're not really autistic; but they have so many of the same struggles and so much in common that it doesn't make much sense to hate them.

So falsely identifying as androgynous is supposed to alleviate that? Because in my experience, androgynous gender identity and expression gets hated on constantly. People who treat trans people badly aren't exactly being selective with who they are discriminating against. They're not giving different amounts of hate to different sub-groups of the gender-diverse community. An androgyne experiences discrimination for the same reason that a trans experiences discrimination: because both of them are rejecting the accepted conventional gender norms at all. For that reason, if you're trans, then identifying as androgynous is pointless. We're all in this together. But insulting and disrespecting the androgynous community by falsely including yourself in it is not going to make your life any easier.



I appreciate that you aren't hating on me for my annoyance. I just don't see how the Bible-thumping conservative loyalist from Bumblef*ck County, Texas is going to go, "Oh shoot, the transgender is now labeling themselves as 'androgynous'- I better make extra sure to give them THAT MUCH LESS crap than I would normally give them, which is to say that I'm still gonna be giving them crap. But who knows, maybe- just MAYBE- I'll give them a raise and start paying them three-quarters as much as I pay my other employees, instead of just half as much like usual!"

I understand that transgenders have all kinds of struggles. And trust me, I am very, very familiar with the social consequences of not fitting into the gender binary. The very fact of being androgyne, by definition, means that you aren't fitting into a gender binary. And since gender binaries are the only really accepted form of gender identity, androgynes- by definition- are going to be getting all kinds of hate.

And since the only accepted gender identity choice is the one that fits your biological sex, transpeople- by definition- are going to be on the receiving end of, again, all kinds of hate.

The point? There's not enough difference between the amounts of hate that both groups- androgynes and transpeople- receive, to merit the false identification of oneself as androgynous when one is, in fact, not androgynous. Also, I don't go around saying that I'm a female born in a male's body when that is factually not true. Instead, I go around saying (not often publically- again, because of the hate) that I identify as neither male nor female, but that I am male-bodied. I tell it how it is.

xD I've heard the poly hate one DOZENS of times!
(and the gender role one. Most people don't know what genderfluid is.)

comparing androgyny and transgender sounds a bit lopsided, androgyny is a state of appearance, while transgender is tied in with sexual self-image and dysphoria.

I feel like this is what depresses me most -the LGBTQ+ community talks about acceptance and understanding but there are lots of people who don't live up to it. I mean ultimately I know there are always going to be jerks in every group -people are people. But I think this (people saying you have to be gay a certain way, or that bi folks are cheats or that asexuality isn't a real sexuality ect.) is a big reason I've only come out to a few people.

If even the group that was supposed to be accepting of this isn't...where is our safe place?

I've had so many of these thrown at me.. It's gotten to the point where, if someone insults me, I resort to violence, often punching them in the face and walking away. Once, I hit one of my peers upside the head with a textbook.. (If you know me, you'd know I'm practically a pacifist. I hate violence, this is dark for me..)

These types of situations have been growing rapidly recently, both for me and some of my friends, yet nobody is stopping them.


(At least I enjoyed printing out multiple copies of the image and burning them!)

I recommend you don't hit people in the head. If you hit them just the wrong way, or if you hit them and they lost their balance and hit their head on something else or on the ground, you could cause a dangerous head injury. I'm thinking about this because I've been following a couple of cases where someone was essentially killed by someone who punched them just once.

If you want to make it very clear that you are offended, and you tend to want to do things physically, slapping with an open hand is probably better than a punch, because you are not likely to cause a head injury. Never hit someone who is a lot smaller than you, especially a child. For these people, I recommend the "glare, turn around, and walk away in complete silence" reaction, which usually conveys disgust (walk away slowly, posture straight, so that it doesn't look like a retreat). Actually, I would recommend that over punching *or* slapping, but since I can't be quite sure you would stop hitting people entirely, at least I can warn you about the small but real chance that you will do real harm when you intended only to express your anger.

I am fairly small myself (Not height, but I have no mass whatsoever.) I try to remain nonviolent, but speaking to them does nothing and walking away just adds to the problem. I am not strong enough to make the people in question lose their balance, and I know the areas to avoid, so severe injuries are much less likely with me than others.
(and the textbook I mentioned was a very light paperback one, only used because the other person was violent. Otherwise, I wouldn't have used it.)

One thing I hear a lot from my gay friends is "I hate gays." It makes no sense. They are gay. I am gay. What exactly are they saying? Gays are b*****s, gays are backstabbers, etc. One friend says he can't go out to dinner if his friends are bringing a "new gay," because he can't handle it.

I've never gotten this.

I don't understand why anyone willingly applies labels to themselves, especially when those labels are becoming increasingly divisive. The whole thing has become like some exercise in sexual taxonomy, in which there are now levels of subdivisions with each classification. Why can't people simply be individuals and express themselves in terms of what they want/like/are instead of continually inventing more and more labels to pin on themselves?