Adding a third gender option

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Only one aspect of gender is binary: sex. One's either male or female.

Though not always... there are people with XY hormones who appear totally female.

But even ignoring such and granting your point, that's only one aspect of gender. Gender is NOT just what genitals and chromosomes and such one has. It also has to do with mental traits, and one's place in society.

While your statement is logical in the physical sense, I find it simplistic in the real world where some people do not psychologically relate to being one sex or the other for whatever reason. I see no reason on a board such as WP to deny such people the third option. WP is a support site for people who aren't neurologically typical. From what I've read in the adult forum over the last couple of years confused sexuality appears to be a common aspect of Aspergers anyway for a number of people. It seems rather crass to insist that all members must declare what genitals they have dangling between their legs (or not). Why do it? Is it just so everyone can apply some sexual stereotypes to their posts?

You missed the hormones and the intersex posibilities, Sorry to break your bubble but gender si so so very VERY Analog.

XX males: resulting from an exceedingly rare mutation in which one of the "X" chromosomes actually contains genetic material from the Y chromosome. Always sterile (contrary to your claim that they can reproduce).
XY females: A non-functioning Y chromosome leaves you with, in effect, an X0 individual. These are female, but sterile.

So yeah, both of those are actually still exceedingly rare chromosomal abnormalities similar to the ones I already addressed, rather than hormonal issues. To change gender via hormones would be extremely difficult and would have to be intentional, plus the results would be disastrous. None of the cases brought up are "intersex." You haven't shown gender to be analog in the least. There are two cases (male and female) and if either case is obtained in a nonstandard way (something other than XX vs XY) the result is almost invariably sterility.

Look, it's not even possible to argue this on the biology. You are simply wrong on those issues. Tallyman and Mysty are making much better points by referring to the societal/cultural aspects that go along with gender.

To respond to their points: I understand that a lot of people do not fit into "traditional" gender roles, and I'm not proposing trying to force people into them. I just disagree with your claim that fitting into a particular set of societal expectations is what defines your gender. You can still be a woman and like football. You can still be a man and like to cook. Defying traditional gender roles does not change the fact that one is either male or female. It is not necessary to let your biological gender define your identity. But that does not change the objective fact that you are either male or female.

I'm going to respond to Tallyman's post in more detail. I think the issue we're having is that I regard gender differently than other posters on this thread do, in the sense that I don't frame gender in the context of social relationships. To do so I think unnecessarily muddles the issue.

See, by my conception of gender this is as absurd as saying that in the real world some people do not psychologically relate to being mammals. We are mammals and that's that, it is nothing more or less than a physiological fact.


Sexuality≠gender. A gay man is still a man, a lesbian is still a woman. Not falling neatly into society's usual expectations is pretty much the norm for Aspies, but an atypical human is still a human.


OK, so I can see you making a good case for allowing an "undisclosed" option (or leaving that field blank). At no point have I promoted sexual stereotypes or tried to judge WP posters on such stereotypes. Again, Aspies tend to defy stereotypes.

Actuly the devolpemet is aboth gentic and hormala, and on rare instances can produce herms, or intersex, I'm soryy but you are still wrong. Oh so very analog

Actuly the devolpemet is aboth gentic and hormala, and on rare instances can produce herms, or intersex, I'm soryy but you are still wrong. Oh so very analog

Of course the development is largely hormonal, but what do you think directs the production of hormones? Genetics, of course. It is, in principle, possible to artificially alter hormone levels, which would probably simulate the outcome of the chromosomal disorders already mentioned. Anyways, there are no documented cases of hermaphroditic humans, and "intersex" is just the term given to those with chromosomal abnormalities that prevent them from developing normal, functional reproductive organs.

You are ojectively wrong on the biology. I know you're not going to admit that, but there it is. In any case, this debate is not about people with Klinefelter's syndrome or whatever else. It's about (XY) men who want to call themselves women, and (XX) women who want to call themselves men, because they feel uncomfortable with the gender roles laid out for them by society.

How about Lola, for a third option?

not every candidate for Lola is a Lola, though, Sid. Lola was a very special person.

I thought "Lola" meant lolita as in female jail bait?

I think it would be this.

the mothers environment can affect it as well,

no, not the heroine of Vladimir Nabokov's novel, TallyMan, but I think our Cockney friend is suggesting in The Kinks song of "Lola", an account of a confused romantic encounter with a transvestite.

Merle