Gay Aspergers !

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Christopher Badcock wrote has some good insight in how autism and homosexuality are related.

http://www2.lse.ac.uk/study/summerSchoo ... IR119.aspx

Seriously I think homosexuality should be banned because it is the cause of all sexually transmitted health problems, and all gays act like wimps and sissys. Ever since human civilization was created, relations were intended between a man and a woman and should only stay that way.

i hope you're joking freespirit2000

Oh dear, oh dear...

Someone isn't very aware of history, and is very misinformed about sexually transmitted diseases. If so, on what facts do you base your opinions? Or did you come up with that on your own?

You should proably change your name. "FreeSpirit" is totally wrong for you.

Well if you are a man, you should accept yourself for who you are and live, act, think and dress like a man. You should not deny how you were born or how god brought you to this earth. If you act gay and start dressing all feminine and act and talk all feminine, this just proves that you have a lack of self-esteem.

Lack self-esteem...hmmm...nope, don't think so. If I "acted" in any way, shape, or form that was contrary to how I truly felt about myself just to please others and make them like me better, whether it was feminine or not, would really provide proof to a lack of self-esteem.

I am on the feminine side, and I am gay. I'm not in the least ashamed of it, nor will I give you or anyone else the power to make me feel ashamed. I'm certain that everyone else who's contributed to this forum, on this topic, will say the same thing to you.

You are welcome to your opinions, but believe this...They will in no way shape how we live our lives.

Well, I am a man. I accept myself for who I am. To the extent that I am aware of what they mean, I live, act, think and dress like a man (but seriously, how does a man think? which particular man should I be acting like?). I do not deny how I was born or how I was brought into this world.

None of these things invalidates my sexual orientation. So you'll pardon me if keep on, "acting all gay."

I don't cross dress, and I don't think I act and talk feminine (though again, I leave it to more objective observers to make this determination). But even if I did, this would have absolutely no bearing on my acceptance of who I am.

I was born male, I was born gay (well, with the genotype, anyway), I was born autistic, and all of that has contributed to my happy, successful (and STI free) life.

What was mentioned earlier about how gay aspies may be more social than straight ones I would like to extend on. Also I would love to hear other aspies takes on it. The way I see it, the majority which would be NT Heterosexuals understand from the time they hit puberty what's going on. Fit in with the biggest group of guys/girls to attract the most mate-able opposite sex. Over time each guy and gal figures out where they rank on hierachy or attractiveness or interest of the opposite sex. They can both try to move up and down the hierarchy but there's only so far they could possibly go. They also prob bully the ones who don't fit their model that gets them laid. A HETEROSEXUAL ASPIE probably learns early on where they rank as far as interest of the opposite sex goes and depending on how stong their sex drive desire is ranks on how it would effect them but after years of trying to attain the opposite sex (especially in adolescence) the level of rejection will probably have an effect of them especially since it's argued that sex is a basic desire and one that they're not achieving but from there it's up to them what they do about it. I don't know if heterosexual aspies have that same sex drive that is the basic human need but i'm sure they have some level of it.

A Homosexual Aspie is playing a WHOLE different game. It's easier for them to get laid and fill that basic desire for sex (whether or not they can get a longer lasting relaitonship), they don't care so much about the marriage/procreation thing (at least right off the bat of what they're basic desires are), they can more easily befriend people of the opposite sex (even being a little strange is ignored if your offering something as unique as a gay guy being a girls favorite accessory and being the rarity of guys that's not a threat to them)....and all of these have to have an effect on the gay aspie most probably allowing them to be more social since they don't have the same social game and goals being played as everyone else does. As far as the relationship goes, that's a whole nother story but general social skills i'm sure would improve.

Personally for me from a young age recognizing that i was vastly different (being both gay and aspie) i realized how I could make it work to my advantage by not giving a hell whatsoever about the social games other people would play and just play my own instead. I'm wondering what everyone else's experiences were like growing up with both minorities?

i should add one other funny things thats happened throughout my life socially due to both minorities. I have always tended to befriend somewhat insecure but really good looking straight guys (they're insecurities were usually due to some intelligence or social issues as well such as ADD or whatnot but they were athletic, hot, and in good shape) and they always seemed to enjoy hanging out with me because they thought i looked up to them (which i kinda did) but it was funny because i always thought they got some human nature kinda high off of the idea that they were able to get more women than me, but while they were thinking that I was thinking how much I enjoyed hanging around them AND not so much the women

I was out in a bar with friends the other night. those smart str8 mates.
(yeah Josh and spot they werent 'players' either - weren't social masterminds lol)
guy mates yeah. those nice engineer types.

I was actually seriously trying to hook up one of my friends with a women.. a nice engineer ha..
he was complimentary to me that night. So I fought extra hard to get a women for him.

One asked me why I didnt like dancing with women.

I replied I don't like drinking.

haha moment dodged

hey I'm creating a new website Gayaspie.com www.gayaspie.com

and "growing up with both minorities"
well guess I worked out the gay bit later in life eh.
but the bluntness of AS can help. Lots of gays like honest people hah eh???

But the Gay scene, isnt it full of bitchy people?
obviously not. but I dislike bitchy people and how people "act" when they go to a gay bar.
But we all acting in someway I guess..

Dressing up is fun is that manly?

ha.. I like to dance is that manly..
I like to sing is that manly

"how does a man think? which particular man should I be acting like?"

Who makes the "man" image? the media.?.?.? TV politics hmm..
Brothers and sisters TV show

Whats the women image? "cooking and cleaning housewife" thats changed now.
has the man image changed much??
or is it still the bread maker

_ www.gayaspie.com its fresh spread the word

Overall I understand the logic (I think), but there are at least three things about your hypothesis that I'm kinda skeptical about:

1) The hypothesis is rather dependent on the notion that sexual orientation is a primary drive towards influencing the social skill outcome of the Aspie. And I don't think this is the case. Social skill acquisition can start well before the onset of puberty; it's sexuality that starts later than being social. How do you account for that?

2) The hypothesis is dependent on very distinct notions of the "heterosexual" and the "homosexual", as in 100% heterosexuality and 100% homosexuality, and at least in my opinion I think that 100% of any particular orientation is extremely rare. So while perhaps your hypothesis could explain some cases of social skill progression in some Aspies, I don't quite believe that it paints an accurate picture of the situation for most Aspies. It's a bit restrictive in my view.

3) The "100% heterosexual" Aspies very often actually don't know how they rank as far as suitability in attracting members of the opposite sex. There are countless posts in WP about guys who do absolutely nothing for themselves social skill-wise, trying to hit on the popular cheerleader girl-type at school, etc..

Instead, I think that for AS folks, sexuality is considerably more fluid, with preferences leaning towards one way or the other being dependent on age, life experience, etc.. I'd even go so far to say that most AS folks who are sexual are bisexual. That doesn't mean that they'd have to necessarily act on both liking men and women, however, nor does it mean that they'd have to like men and women equally 50/50. Circumstances can always change that will make the person re-evaluate his or her own preferences at that one particular moment. I think it is a bit restrictive for anybody to think, "I have this one particular sexual preference and that's never ever going to change."

Therefore what I think is more common is that before puberty, the Aspie may or may not acquire social skills. That much is dependent at least partly on the environment the young Aspie grows up in. And it's this early exposure to other children of the opposite sex that will determine how comfortable the child will be in socializing with members of the opposite sex as the child gets older. Essentially, it's easier to do it when you start young. Then when puberty hits, a teenage guy for instance would still be able to socialize with girls because he already had the experience doing it. He was used to it already, so it becomes more-or-less second nature. There is no more mystique about the opposite sex, and then there will be other less-social skill-oriented factors that will influence the bisexuality. In contrast, if a young male Aspie does not acquire sufficient social skills to get along with young girls, he has little understanding or experience interacting with girls. Once puberty hits, the poor social skills significantly influences and perhaps skews the guy's perceptions of girls. His hormones are raging, but he has no experience in interacting with girls as people. Coupled with the still prevailing heteronormative culture (unfortunately ), if this skew is sufficient for the guy to think that girls are just "pu**ies on legs", it's not really too much of a surprise to see how an Aspie guy would think he's 100% straight. He wouldn't really understand any other way, as he has a skewed perception of homosexuality, and thinks of girls as just sex objects. This is evident in other threads of the Love & Dating forum.

Yes, I agree with these points. (sorry stinkypuppy) Though I know it doesn't apply to every gay person with AS in the world, I think this is how things could happen a lot of the time. In my experience, this is almost exactly how my life played out. I didn't start to actually feel like I had friends until I came out of the closet. I realized that a lot of girls would think "a gay guy is a girls favorite accessory" I used this to my advantage. I was able to make friends with girls and even use them as protection from the would be gay bashers in my school. It didn't work full proof right away though. At first the girls liked me then when they got to know me I was often abandoned as a friend. This left me friendless and openly gay, which was actually dangerous in school. I watched "Will and Grace" to imitate what I should act like, effectivley making me a flaming steryotype. It took a long time to finally figure it all out, but I have no doubt that had I not been born gay, I would have less social skills. Also, getting laid is easier and that does help...however finding a meaningful relationship has so far been out of my reach.

Elaborating a little bit...I think any minority has certain steryotypes and when a person with AS see these portrayed (on tv or movies or books) they may use this as a blueprint for immitation. This is only for those people whose coping mechanism is immitation, which mine was and still is. If the person is part of a minority like gay people, they can use these steryotypes as guidelines for how to act. For example, me watching "Will and Grace" made me think that to make friends, I had to act like Jack. So I started becoming very animated and even started using quotes from the show in every day life. I analyzed the relationship between Jack and Karen and thought that's what real life friendships should be like. Naive? Yes. Effective? Somewhat. I'm starting to think that being a part of any minority can help social skills because not only do you have more of a chance to connect with others of the same minority, but you have very specific behaviors portrayed that you can immitate. Feel free to attack this idea if it is at all offensive.

Yes, I agree with these points. (sorry stinkypuppy) Though I know it doesn't apply to every gay person with AS in the world, I think this is how things could happen a lot of the time. In my experience, this is almost exactly how my life played out. I didn't start to actually feel like I had friends until I came out of the closet. I realized that a lot of girls would think "a gay guy is a girls favorite accessory" I used this to my advantage. I was able to make friends with girls and even use them as protection from the would be gay bashers in my school. It didn't work full proof right away though. At first the girls liked me then when they got to know me I was often abandoned as a friend. This left me friendless and openly gay, which was actually dangerous in school. I watched "Will and Grace" to imitate what I should act like, effectivley making me a flaming steryotype. It took a long time to finally figure it all out, but I have no doubt that had I not been born gay, I would have less social skills. Also, getting laid is easier and that does help...however finding a meaningful relationship has so far been out of my reach.

Elaborating a little bit...I think any minority has certain steryotypes and when a person with AS see these portrayed (on tv or movies or books) they may use this as a blueprint for immitation. This is only for those people whose coping mechanism is immitation, which mine was and still is. If the person is part of a minority like gay people, they can use these steryotypes as guidelines for how to act. For example, me watching "Will and Grace" made me think that to make friends, I had to act like Jack. So I started becoming very animated and even started using quotes from the show in every day life. I analyzed the relationship between Jack and Karen and thought that's what real life friendships should be like. Naive? Yes. Effective? Somewhat. I'm starting to think that being a part of any minority can help social skills because not only do you have more of a chance to connect with others of the same minority, but you have very specific behaviors portrayed that you can immitate. Feel free to attack this idea if it is at all offensive.

i like what dustintorch said and even though stinkpuppy makes some good points about not having any kind of "scientific" evidence about this....let's be realistic. I am currently 23 years old which means since puberty at 11 or 12 I have been gay (and as). Since i didn't come out til a year ago (or care about having a relationship) that gave me 11 years to

1. Not care about what anyone thought about me....men or women. I knew I was different, I knew how easy it would be to get sex if i wanted it, I didn't care about the number one thing guys seem to care about (getting laid) which means I didn't care what image I gave off to women to "attract them as my mates". The problem with this though while i could form individual friendships I wasn't able to be part of any group dynamic whatsoever.

2. Not spend so much work on how to talk to women or deal with rejection of any form by them. Sure they did reject me, but the joke was on them. I never wanted them anyway.

3. have a weird feeling of comfort knowing that while i did have this "disability" at least i didn't have to deal with all the BS my straight guy friends dealt with with women, although when i finally did come out I saw how this hurt me in the long run more than i might have thought.

4. Develop a strong sense of humor. I knew if I was straight I would be in the position to "provide" for the woman which would make me more aware of my traits if they were to show or more insecure about them. As a gay guy I can have other guys show interest or pursue and find the ones that appreciate me for me and not have to change for them.....although who knows down the line what I may have to do.

5. Go on a much better "accept me or don't" basis by being allowed to be friends with both men and women, if someone had a problem with who I was.....well I had a larger pool of people to choose from to be friends with. This also could turn into a negative though because you may develop more acquaintances and less strong friendships because you fit into SO many different groups.

There are definitely negatives to this though such as you can be picked on more and ostracized more by peers. The more insecure a person is, the more they look for a target to pick on usually one thats very different from themselves and WELL, you don't get much different than us.

Thanks dustintorch and Joshandspot for the responses! It's totally ok if you guys don't really agree with my view, but after reading your comments, I don't really see anything from your personal experiences which go against what I said.

Like both of you guys, I have historically always had a much easier time talking to women than men. However, perhaps I differ somewhat in that I did have a very decent number of friends before puberty, both male and female, so it was not terribly difficult for me to merely continue this as a teenager. It was just that as a teenager I gradually talked to women more, as I really didn't want to deal with the attitudes a lot of straight guys have about sexuality and stuff. I did know that I was attracted to men when I was a teenager, but didn't act on it or really understand it until my late 20s.

I don't mean to be condescending or sound disapproving or anything at all, but I can't help but notice that the way both of you describe your experiences about being gay teenagers could be summarized as "my being gay provided me with an identity, and an escape from society's pressures". And while I think dustintorch's description of being part of a minority is very true, I never needed my sexuality to provide me with an identity. Early on in my childhood, that identity was about being Filipino in the US. Most of my socializing outside of school was with other Filipinos, and it helped that it was always the same group of them (they were family friends). But having white and non-Filipino Asian friends at school, combined with AS (which I did not know about at the time), I was able to break away and ensure that that Filipino cultural identity did not maintain such a tight grip on me. So although I am Filipino-American by upbringing, I don't really identify strongly with that ethnic group at all anymore.

So I do think I'm being realistic. Joshandspot's hypothesis in and of itself makes sense, but my earlier reflections on it were that it seemed to depend on the notion that sexuality is a primary driver of social skills. After having read the biographical statement from both of you guys, now I think I understand where that notion comes from. As a consequence I'd have to modify what I said earlier, and it's not really social skills that seemed to be driven by your sexuality, it was the bulk of your social identity, it seems. And that's perfectly fine. But strictly speaking, that's not going to apply to every sexual AS person out there. Thus I think that a more generalized hypothesis would be needed that could encompass this particular scenario of which you guys are living examples, and other people with slightly different circumstances.