Anti-trans bigots: "Puberty blockers are child abuse"

Page 6 of 9 [ 131 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,939
Location:      

10 Jan 2020, 10:25 am

magz wrote:
... With the current technology, one needs to be born with more or less functional testicles to produce sperm, more or less functional ovaries to produce ova and more or less functional uterus to carry the child - current medicine can't implant any of those to a person not born with one, it can solve numerous problems with them, but not create them.
<* ahem *>

Link: Uterus Transplant: Second baby in US born from womb of deceased donor



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,939
Location:      

10 Jan 2020, 10:55 am

Bradleigh wrote:
... fake evidence ...
Ahh ... the battle-cry of those who make up their own 'facts' when reality does not suit their narrative. Trump has taught you well, young padawan.

Image



magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

10 Jan 2020, 11:34 am

Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
... With the current technology, one needs to be born with more or less functional testicles to produce sperm, more or less functional ovaries to produce ova and more or less functional uterus to carry the child - current medicine can't implant any of those to a person not born with one, it can solve numerous problems with them, but not create them.
<* ahem *>

Link: Uterus Transplant: Second baby in US born from womb of deceased donor

Thanks, I didn't know it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uterus_transplantation
Quote:
Uterine transplantation starts with the uterus retrieval surgery on the donor. Working techniques for this exist for animals, including primates and more recently humans.[43][44][45][46][47][48] The recovered uterus may need to be stored, for example for transportation to the location of the recipient. Studies on cold-ischemia/eperfusion indicate an ischemic tolerance of more than 24 hours.[44]

The recipient has to look at potentially three major surgeries. First of all, there is the transplantation surgery. If a pregnancy is established and carried to viability a cesarean section is performed. As the recipient is treated with immuno-suppressive therapy, eventually, after completion of childbearing, a hysterectomy needs to be done so that the immuno-suppressive therapy can be terminated.

Not really well established for now but who knows where it goes in the future...


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,939
Location:      

10 Jan 2020, 11:39 am

Just another off-topic opinion, but I have to wonder if men would be more likely to request a testicular transplant to restore their libidos than to produce more babies.



uncommondenominator
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Aug 2019
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,402

10 Jan 2020, 1:48 pm

Fnord wrote:
So? Is this supposed to be one of those "Echo Chambers" where everyone agrees with everyone else and no dissenting opinions are tolerated or even permitted?

Image


Is this the kind of 'discussion' you want?


Strawman argument. Nobody is suggesting that. However, you want to have your cake and eat it too. You can disagree all you want, but people can also still disagree with you as well. You seem to want to be able to say what ever you want, however critical, but to not be criticized or questioned in return. You don't get to fight others and defend your point, and then turn around and claim you were merely presenting information as a neutral party. You weren't that neutral when you were singing the praises of how doctor-y and professional and scientific your sources were - until it was pointed out that they weren't. Then, suddenly, you became, in your mind at least, the neutral advocate, merely passing along a thing they found.

Anyone have anything else to add, that *is* on topic?



magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

10 Jan 2020, 2:53 pm

uncommondenominator wrote:
Anyone have anything else to add, that *is* on topic?

That when I imagine this, the situation would have to be drastic for me to agree on such treatment for my child.
IRL, I don't know any child coming close to require this, despite knowing tomboys and girly boys - they seem okay raised more or less agender.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,989
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

10 Jan 2020, 4:44 pm

Fnord wrote:
If puberty blockers are being administered to preserve the child’s health and/or save the child’s life, then it is no more abusive than any vaccination.

If, however, puberty blockers are administered merely to prevent physical development — keeping a promising young gymnast in the body of an 8-year old well into her teens — then that is abusive, especially if the drugs are giving without the child’s consent and/or against the child’s wishes.

Trans-genderization? I don’t know. Is the child diagnosed with some form of dysphoria, or do the parents simply want a child of the opposite gender without going through childbirth again?


From what I have seen on a couple documentaries about transgender kids, it seems a lot more like the child identifies as their preferred sex and are distressed that their sex doesn't match. And that is what the parent is presented with. It can certainly be a difficult thing as its also possible for children to just go through phases. So the whole treatment part can be difficult because it has to be done with caution the treatments to change their sex are more or less irreversible in some ways, but also the sooner its started the better it works. Also the sex change treatment means they won't be fertile so having children of their own would be out of the picture.


_________________
We won't go back.


Bradleigh
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 34
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia

10 Jan 2020, 6:45 pm

Fnord wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
... fake evidence ...
Ahh ... the battle-cry of those who make up their own 'facts' when reality does not suit their narrative. Trump has taught you well, young padawan.

Image


When did I use fake evidence? The last post I made after yours was pointing out that you accusation was a non sequitur and made an apt comparison to another awful organization after presenting more evidence in a previous post how awful the one you brought up earlier.

Also, if this is the way you are going to act, getting butt hurt, and acting like I am some follower of Trump, you can go pleasure yourself. I want to say more, but I don't think this website allows me to use the more colourful Australian language.


_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

11 Jan 2020, 5:57 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
It can certainly be a difficult thing as its also possible for children to just go through phases. So the whole treatment part can be difficult because it has to be done with caution the treatments to change their sex are more or less irreversible in some ways, but also the sooner its started the better it works. Also the sex change treatment means they won't be fertile so having children of their own would be out of the picture.

You more or less presented my own thoughts on why it's not obvious either way.
A 11yo typically still can't decide weather they wants to become an astronaut or a movie star. Some may even hope for a letter from Hogwarts. It's not the age to make big, life changing decisions... yet if puberty blockers weren't administered at that age, they wouldn't really work.

Having an option to raise my children agender, with sex reduced to reproductive abilities (my culture allows that), I almost certainly wouldn't go the way of puberty blockers for my child.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


firemonkey
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,692
Location: Calne,England

11 Jan 2020, 6:25 am

It's a complex subject , and a Mickey mouse outfit like the ACpeds brings nothing to the table . How does one differentiate between what for some may be a passing phase, but at the time is held with strong conviction , vs a child for whom it is not a passing phase?



uncommondenominator
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Aug 2019
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,402

11 Jan 2020, 11:59 am

magz wrote:
uncommondenominator wrote:
Anyone have anything else to add, that *is* on topic?

That when I imagine this, the situation would have to be drastic for me to agree on such treatment for my child.
IRL, I don't know any child coming close to require this, despite knowing tomboys and girly boys - they seem okay raised more or less agender.


Anecdotal. Just because you've never met them doesn't mean they don't exist. Your imagination is more correct than you think, though. It generally IS a fairly unique and drastic situation where such action is taken. You wouldn't see it all the time, cos it IS rare.

One of the problems with this discussion is (in general, not just here) it's treated like it's a lot more prolific than it really is - as though parents are just deciding on a whim left and right by the thousands to tamper with their kids hormones for lulz - when really, it is a rare situation that isn't decided upon lightly, nor upon passing or questionable reasons.

It's usually a very difficult decision made with the help of multiple medical professionals after a great deal of research and discussion over a long period of time. It's not something you just read about on a tuesday and take the kids in for a hormone shot on a friday cos it seemed like a good idea at the time. Yet people at large seem to keep talking about this subject as though it's some new diet parents are experimenting with for kicks, or the Gender Squad is going to march through the town un-gendering everyone's kids by pouring hormone blockers into the well, and enforcing mandatory non-gender classes for everyone starting in pre-school, to make sure they know gender is bad.

Making it seem like an everyday thing is just a tool to make it look scarier.



magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

11 Jan 2020, 4:29 pm

I never claimed drastic situations don't happen... but they must be quite rare and I'm still not convinced about unavoidability of them on the cultural level.
Biological sex can't be changed with current medicine. So what aspects of gender expression are so desired that are not directly linked to biological sex? Aren't they all culturally defined? Can't we rather open up our culture to broader self-expression than treat healthy bodies with serious interventions?


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,939
Location:      

11 Jan 2020, 4:53 pm

magz wrote:
... Can't we rather open up our culture to broader self-expression than treat healthy bodies with serious interventions?
Just because we can does not necessarily mean we should. The UK's NHS misidentified autistic kids as gender-confused, and gave puberty blockers to as many as 150 back in 2017-2018.

Link to LifeSiteNews article.

Thousands of deaths have been linked to drugs used as puberty blockers for gender-confused kids.

Link to LifeSiteNews article

LifeSiteNews.com is a non-profit Internet service dedicated to issues of culture, life, and family. It was launched in September 1997. LifeSiteNews Daily News reports and information pages are used by numerous organizations and publications, educators, professionals and political, religious and life and family organization leaders and grassroots people across North America and internationally.



firemonkey
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,692
Location: Calne,England

11 Jan 2020, 6:23 pm

Years ago I was insistent I wanted srs . At one point my dx was schizophrenia with disorder of gender identity . When it became increasingly likely I'd never get the green light for proceeding towards it, I was upset .

I had the choice of continuing tilting at windmills , and getting more and more stressed, or coming to terms with it .

I now wonder how much of what I felt was an autistic obsession , or a psychotic obsessive delusion . The fact is I'm a rather dysfunctional man , and would have been just as much a dysfunctional person as a woman .



firemonkey
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,692
Location: Calne,England

11 Jan 2020, 6:27 pm

^^

Quote:
These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage conservative causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy. See all Right Bias sources.

Overall, we rate LifeSiteNews far right biased based on story selection that always favors evangelical Christianity and Mixed for factual reporting due to a few failed fact checks.


https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/life-site-news/



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,939
Location:      

11 Jan 2020, 6:46 pm

Simply pointing out whether someone is left or right wing isn't winning the argument, because opinions don't change facts -- facts change opinions; or at least the should change opinions, if the person holding those opinions is rational. The Leftist/Liberal Media won't cover facts like those presented on LifeSiteNews because those facts simply don't fit the Leftist/Liberal opinion of what they believe should be true.