"Male brain theory" and homosexuality

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One of the theories I've read before in relation to asperger's is that it's excessively "male brain" wiring present in someone with it.

Another thing noticed in the homosexual community is many people who are homosexual seem to have a similar brain wiring to the opposite sex; for example, feminine gay men, and butch lesbian women.

If the theory about brain wiring is true, could we expect to see a disproportionately high number of female aspies being attracted to the same sex, and it disproportionately low amongst males? Or is a different part of our brain responsible for sexual orientation?

Straight male here, this is a scientific question I wanted to investigate.

That doesn't seem to be the case on this site. Not only do I see more non-straight males than on most other sites I go to, but the straight ones are also much more tolerant.

I don't buy the extreme male brain theory myself. I don't think men and women are actually wired differently in that sense. I think it's just that people with Asperger's are less aware of or less interested in traditional gender roles as defined by the culture at large.

Well, I appenrently have a ''male brain'' and a lot of people assume I'm a lesbian because I have typical male interests and because I have zero fashion sense. But I'm straight. I've read in a book about the brain once that sexual orientation is decided by something in the core of the brain, not in the two hemispheres. So, and I'm just theorizing here, maybe some aspie female's brains are ''masculinized'' in the one or both of the hemispheres of the brain, but without the core of the brain being ''masculinized'', therefore the female is still straight. That's my theory about my brain anyway.

I have a fairly "male brain" but I'm a straight woman. Concerning effeminate gay men and butch lesbians, I doubt they represent the bulk of the homosexual population. They simply stand out more. I think the bulk of the homosexual population consists of men and women who conform to their gender norms.

I don't think the incident of homosexuality is higher in people with AS. I do think the incident of asexuality is higher in people with AS, and that people with AS may be a little less likely to conform to gender norms, as a large chunk of them are socially programmed.

What are the differences between male brain wiring and female brain wiring? I know that I sometimes have problems talking to other women but that could just be a social difficulty.

There are a few assumptions at work here, I think.

1) The brain has a gender type in its wiring.

Certainly there are differences in brain anatomy between men and women, and the evidence is pretty strong that there are differences in brain anatomy between straight men and gay men. (I think the jury is still out on physiological differences between straight women and lesbians, but I could be wrong.)

But it is particular structures in the brain where we see the differences, and it might well be possible that areas of the brain that are responsible for sexual orientation might be structured in one way, whereas other areas of the brain responsible for our social deficits are structured differently.

2) Brain wiring is determinative

Certainly the brain is the single most important organ in relation to the two subjects at hand: the autism spectrum and sexuality. But that does not mean that a set of genetic instructions lays down a definitive pattern of perception and behaviour for a person's entire life. The brain is not a static organ, we learn, we grow and we develop. I believe that genetics and the anatomy of the brain will create the potentials, but environment and experience will tend to reinforce or inhibit these potentials.

Now autism spectrum disorders tend to have impacts on perception, experience and learning. Since we don't perceive other people the way that NTs do, the potential for ASD's wired into us is more than likely going to lead to some presentation of aspie/autism traits--though the clinical significance of those traits can still be different. On the other hand, brain anatomy related to sexual orientation may be much more susceptible to experience and nurture because sexual orientation develops later in life than social perception.

Which brings me to an intuitive sense about gay aspies. I see two potential reasons for aspies with the physiological tendency to be gay to realize that tendency. First, we are less likely to be swayed by social pressure. Given that most aspie children are, to some degree, disconnected from their peer groups, it follows that we will develop an understanding of our individual selves and our individual places in the world that is less likely to conform with a socially imposed norm. Second, given the challenges that we face in understanding other people, we are likely to view members of our own sex as easier to understand (especially in matters of sexuality) than members of the opposite sex.

So if your brain is telling you that you are attracted to a member of your own sex; if your social upbringing has not told you that there is anything wrong with that attraction and if you feel more comfortable with members of your own sex than with members of the opposite sex, those latter two factors are likely to reinforce the first, rather than mitigate it. But when your social deficits cause you to be uncomfortable with other people, of either sex, then that discomfort can, I think, strongly mitigate your sexual attraction, whether towards the same or the opposite sex.

Very little happens in isolation in the brain.

Do you know this for a fact? Wheres the evidence that straight men and gay men have strong brain differences?



I agree with your first point, we are less likely to be influenced nearly as strongly as NTs about sexual norms. Your second point however can be vary amongst various people along the spectrum. Some autistic people find understanding the same sex easier, some understand the opposite sex easier, some find both equally as difficult. I find both sexes equally hard to understand, I sorta fall in the middle genderwise.

I don't know what to think about the overly male brain theory, since, after all, I'm a counterexample to it. I'm physically male and have AS, yet I intensely want to be female. I don't feel right as a guy at all.

If the overly male brain theory is correct, how do male-to-female transsexual Aspies exist?

Okay if you go to classes for information technology, the physical sciences, or engineering, it will stand out these areas are almost entirely male. You can probably think of a few other areas like this, and it's not because of any kind of restriction - quite the opposite - it's becoming increasingly common for there to be incentives for girls to actually get involved in these career paths.

There are also some career paths that are far more popular with girls - for example, school teaching.

It certainly did for me and it's what I studied most at college and university, as these were things I was interested in and could do well with. We had *NO* girls in our computer networks class, and at work we have hardly any girls on our IT floor.

I know I'm a definate 'extreme male brain' if there is such a thing, and definately hetrosexual. Homophobia was more or less beaten into us at school, but I've outgrown that and have some friends who are gay these days.

Aspergers means a difficulty to understand how to interact socially and there could be a lot of reasons why someone has difficulties interacting socially. The male brain theory could explain some cases of aspergers, but not all. Actually being transsexual maybe makes socially interaction more difficult since you have to interact has the wrong sex?

I'm not sure if this is exactly correct. I've observed female cousins (younger) be molded into very female little girls (when they showed interest in carpentry) being told "that's a daddy's/grampas job" by their grandmother. They stopped showing interest because they were told girls didn't do that. It's possible similar happens regarding traditionally male roles.

I just wanted to know were there any concrete brain differences, by this I mean nature and not nurture.

There must be concrete differences in not only the straight/gay male populations but also the straight/lesbian female populations because it's been found that lesbians are more likely to have a "male" ring:index finger length ratio.

I don't know that I subscribe to the "extreme male brain" theory. I think that Aspies/auties have an overabundance of potential for empathy (sensitivity to others' body language etc., as part and parcel of general hypersensitivity) that they either block out cause it's too overwhelming or that they can't put to use in the "bigger-fish"compartmentalized codified world of NT social interaction.

And empathy is stereotypically defined as a female trait.

I know some females (who are neither aspies nor lesbians/bisexual) who get very angry about the proposition that there are fewer females in technical fields because girls aren't interested in those things. There is a lot of chauvanism in those fields. I've witnessed it myself, and I'm male. I've heard girls say they dropped out because of that, not because they weren't interested or found it too difficult.

Make sure you cite correctly. I said that the evidence is pretty strong, not the differences.

The evidence is in peer reviewed, scientific journals. As for whether I know it as a fact, no--I'm not a neurobiologist, and I have not conducted direct experiments myself. But I take note of the number of studies that have been conducted, and whose results serve to further reinforce the hypothesis.



I think that these are tendencies but not hard and fast rules. Both ASDs and sexuality as spectrum conditions, and no two people are going to present identical profiles. But psychologists have made a better study of the correlation of ASDs and atypical sexual orientation than I ever could.

I'm sure most of us have probably noticed men who've got along *very* well with the ladies, and turned out to be gay. This is what is meant by having a 'female' brain, despite being male. Obviously not all gay men are like this, but there are some who fit that description very well. I would be quite baffled if someone like that was AS

AS is weird and wonderful in its myriad presentations.

Many of us learn to overcome our social deficits, or compensate for them with coping strategies. For my part, I often remark that, "children's theatre saved my life." I learned to understand projection, modulation and gesture. I learned skills to work with a scene partner.

And today, when I am in a situation that calls for these skills, I treat it like a performance.