So.... yeah. Me and my stupid gender issues....

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So, ok. Normally, I'd be loathe to even so much as mention this to anyone I know, even those closest to me, yet here I go making an entire topic about it. I guess this forum just strikes me as a place where I can actually do this.

Oh man, where to even begin with this.

I guess the first point is.... I know I have SOME sort of gender issue. Specifically, for quite awhile now, I've had this rather intense desire to.... well, become "androgynous" in appearance, and such as that.

Now, I know some people are going to say "Well what you look like isnt important, it's what's on the inside that counts! " and assorted variations thereof. But one way or another, this IS important to me, and it's a fact that isnt changing. Believe me.... I often wish it'd go away!

I am male, and in all honesty I'm a bit on the girly side to begin with; while alot of adult males are kind of "angular" with flat planes and such, in terms of their body structure, I am.... well, definitely not that. And even before this whole issue appeared to me, I'd occaisionally get mistaken for a girl by random people. ANd note, these are people looking directly at me; not like, mistaken for a girl from behind, or some such as that. In all honesty, it makes me feel pretty good whenever that happens (though I still manage to get embarrassed at the same time). I'm also not exactly "manly" in terms of my personality either.

I do indeed generally attempt to make my appearance more femmy, so to speak, though again, what I'm truly after isnt becoming a full-on girl, but an androgynous appearance. Like an "I cant tell what gender that person is by looking at them" kind of thing. And it's.... so FRUSTRATING. I never quite feel that I achieve what I want, and worse, I dont know how to go about improving it. Finding help with this sort of thing is nigh-impossible.

And heck, even just expressing it isnt easy. I usually only get the occaisional chance to do it: Me being a geek and all, I'm into anime/gaming, and conventions and cosplay. For those that dont know, "cosplay" is the act of dressing up as a character you like while at a convention. Very fun, to me anyway. But of course I cant just be NORMAL about this, now can I. I tend to choose either really girly boys as my character, or actual female characters. And then I'll spend silly amounts of time trying to get the look right, with makeup and all (and I dont know much about how to use that stuff), and I'll become absolutely paranoid about getting laughed at... every time. Amazingly, I dont think I've *ever* been laughed at, which is wierd, because alot of guys wearing similar outfits do get giggles at conventions. One way or another, I end up feeling pretty good while doing this, even if I dont think I quite have the look down just right.

I dont get to express/explore this much on a daily basis (as in, non-convention daily life) as I'd like. I might mess with makeup a little.... and wear clothing that's slightly off, for a male anyway.... but that's generally as far as I'll go. And not because I'm worried about parents flipping out or anything. My father is about as accepting of stuff as is possible; frankly, he's almost TOO accepting. I know he'd be supportive if I brought this issue up, but the very idea of doing so just slams me with too much embarrassment.

And I get frustrated by this whole issue. I get frustrated if I just cant quite figure out how to improve the look; I get frustrated if I see someone ELSE that IS managing it, where I'm not quite doing it. I can get pretty depressed about all of this.... half of the time, it's nothing but trouble, but it's a thing I've just sort of accepted that it's there. At the same time though, I get frustrated because I dont know WHY it's there. Why do I want an androgynous appearance so incredibly badly? I've never quite been able to figure it out, which is really bothersome. And thefact that it seems so bloody WIERD is also aggravating. It's like.... why do I want this strange thing? But I'm not going to try to deny that it's there, either.


And I'm not even entirely sure where I'm going with this whole rant. Part of it is a chance to vent a bit. Like I said above, I dont exactly know many people that I can really talk with this about. A few friends know about the issue, but that doesnt mean I sit there and discuss it with them. Here on this forum..... I can at least ramble about it a bit, and see what responses I may get.

Anyone else have any similar issues, or even just general advice or comments? Any such things are appreciated.

Hey there, I can definitely relate to what you are saying, except that I am female bodied.

I have intense feelings that my physical sex is wrong, but I wish that people would consistantly think I was male rather than androgenous. I have more "male" characteristics that most females, strikingly so. I grow a patchy beard on my entire lower face (which I am currently growing for fun, but I have always kept nicely groomed), I wear guys clothes or unisex at the worst and have since around age 8. I even buy my underwear in the guys department, and I have since seventh grade. Even my mannerisms, speech, personality are masculine. I remember in school the boys would pick me on their team first and they would say "because she's a boy too" or something to that effect.

Right now I'm quite androgenous (or I can look feminine if I try), but I'm not satisfied. I was okay with it until I was in my mid-20s, but like every other coping strategy it is starting to wear thin.

I know that I am lucky in that I am able to freely express myself, and I generally live and think of myself as male. I am married, and my husband is accepting of who I am. I still sometimes feel like I am a freak, and that I am sick for feeling the way I do. But then I realize that what is sick, is society looking at our genitals and basing our future on what they look like out of the womb.

Thanks for the reply; it's nice to meet someone else that can immediately understand this sort of thing, instead of just giving me strange looks, lol.

Your situation does sound fairly similar in ways to my own.

And I agree, it does kinda suck that society looks upon these things the way they do, but.... not much can be done about that bit, unfortunately.

I was flipping through New York magazine the other day and saw this article on model Andre Pejic, who is very androgynous. Thought you might appreciate it.

http://nymag.com/fashion/11/fall/andrej-pejic/

Admittedly, I see something like that, and.... usually, it just makes things worse. It's kinda like.... having the thing I want waved at me, but I dont quite know how to achieve it myself.

I've seen others similar to him before, and seeing them tends to merely make me more frustrated at my own inability to get what I'm after.

And it's not like a "Oh woe is me, I dont look like a supermodel" sort of thing. I tend to have some confidence in my appearance in general; I know I'm good-looking (for how self-centered that sounds, oi). And I must have SOMETHING of what I seek, some potential, or I'd never get mistaken for a girl, ever.

And that's frustrating too. I know it's POSSIBLE for me to get what I want. I dont know HOW to do it. Argh.

I don't know that I am androgynous. I am a lesbian, and lean heavily towards the male side, yet don't deny I am a female. I wear womens underwear, bras of course, and womens jeans because they fit me better. but other than that, I am all male. I have the mentality of a man, other than the fact that I don't think about sex every five seconds, and haven't had sex with a woman in 6 years, and with a man in 10 years. I feel like I am a miss-mash of both sexes. I dress like a man, but am a woman, too. I haven't worn a dress of any kind since I was 16, and when I wore that dress I was forced, for a funeral. before that I hadn't worn a dress since I was 6 or 7. I have never worn make up and my hair is cut very short (when I get it cut I get it an eigth of an inch on the side and the back, 3/4 an in on the top).

my male-ness used to drive my mother nuts, but she has since accepted it.

So you want to be seen as neither gender? This is called "genderqueer" by most, and it is common. Many people become gender-queer because they want to be gender-fluid. They want to be free to seen as a man and a woman depending on what they are feeling that night. Or they don't feel comfortable being "put in a box" by the societal expectations of gender.

Some want a gender-neutral appearance because they don't want to be "sexualized" by other people attracted to a particular gender. Some actually have a brain structure or brain activation pattern that reflects neither gender or both genders.

A large chunk of the time it is simply something they identify as and they cannot put their tongue on it. From reading the rest of your post, I am pretty sure that this is something you identify as; it makes you feel comfortable.

That or you could just be a cross dresser. Nothing wrong with that either. I always found it interesting.



For myself, I had gender issues. I am transgender so I was born with a male mind but a female body. At first, I decided to be genderqueer, but I realized I was having physical and emotional pain based on my body. I needed to transition. I also felt more comfortable in the male role and being perceived as male.

I am dressed as a male and look male almost 80% of the time. My confidence has gone up, and I have really grown as a person.

I would recommend you look up articles on how to cross dress or how to present oneself as gender-neutral or gender-ambiguous. There are lots of videos on youtube.

My comment is about your thread title.

You have gender issues, to be sure. But they are not stupid. They may frustrate you--they may even infuriate you. But they are not stupid.

You are the unique person that you are in part because of your self-identity. Whether that is male, female or some imprecise "other" it is still you.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but thanks for your words, they really helped me today.