i Think gays should marry, but not have kids

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Do you think gays should be able to raise kids?
Yes 92%  92%  [ 120 ]
No 8%  8%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 130

joshkuthak
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09 Jun 2011, 8:54 pm

Before anyone calls me homophobic I am a 15 yr old homosexual. I feel that gays have every right to marry and we should all fight for that right, but i dont think a gay couple should raise children. You see, its just that i dont think it is a good environment for a child, I mean theyll go to school and try to make friends, and when they want to invite them over or have birthday parties and both the kids and parents see that the kid has gay parents, then they may never show up to that kids place again. i know what you may be thinking, "well thats their fault, society needs to be more accepting and if they see good kids being raised by gays then maybe they will start accepting" but lets face it, they wont be accepting, and the kid shouldnt have to grow up being teased and bullied because of that, since their only an innocent child. I have nothing against gays and i am gay myself, but im only thinking about the child.



Last edited by joshkuthak on 09 Jun 2011, 10:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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09 Jun 2011, 9:18 pm

Racism means being against someone because of their race - I think you mean homophobic.

There's no reason why they'd never show up to the home of a child with homosexual parents again, if they're prejudice then that's their prejudice not a problem with the homosexual couple - by that reasoning black people, women, Jewish people, autistic people or any other group seen as a minority or that faces prejudice in wider Western society shouldn't be allowed to raise children.

There's no reason why people wouldn't be accepting, maybe it's different where you live - here very few people would have a problem - but then that again doesn't mean a homosexual couple shouldn't have children, prejudice doesn't just vanish and people shouldn't lay down and take prejudice. If a child is bullied or teased then the parents take care of that, homosexual parents are just as capable of this than parents of any other sexual orientation.

I'm fine with homosexual couples having children, although on the condition that they can give the child role-models who are both male and female - that's exactly the same as I'd want to see from heterosexual parents. Being raised by a single mother I had no male influences in my life, and I believe based on my experience that children should have male and female role models.


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DarrylZero
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09 Jun 2011, 9:23 pm

I edited your quote...

joshkuthak wrote:
Before anyone calls me racist I am a 15 yr old interracial person. I feel that interracial couples have every right to marry and we should all fight for that right, but i dont think an interracial couple should be allowed to raise children. You see, its just that i dont think it is a good environment for a child, I mean theyll go to school and try to make friends, and when they want to invite them over or have birthday parties and both the kids and parents see that the kid has interracial parents, then they may never show up to that kids place again. i know what you may be thinking, "well thats their fault, society needs to be more accepting and if they see good kids being raised by interracial couples then maybe they will start accepting" but lets face it, they wont be accepting, and the kid shouldnt have to grow up being teased and bullied because of that, since their only an innocent child. I have nothing against interracial couples and i am interracial myself, but im only thinking about the child.


Same logic. Try replacing "gay" with "autistic," "disabled," whatever. It's all the same thing.



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09 Jun 2011, 9:46 pm

DarrylZero wrote:
I edited your quote...

joshkuthak wrote:
Before anyone calls me racist I am a 15 yr old interracial person. I feel that interracial couples have every right to marry and we should all fight for that right, but i dont think an interracial couple should be allowed to raise children. You see, its just that i dont think it is a good environment for a child, I mean theyll go to school and try to make friends, and when they want to invite them over or have birthday parties and both the kids and parents see that the kid has interracial parents, then they may never show up to that kids place again. i know what you may be thinking, "well thats their fault, society needs to be more accepting and if they see good kids being raised by interracial couples then maybe they will start accepting" but lets face it, they wont be accepting, and the kid shouldnt have to grow up being teased and bullied because of that, since their only an innocent child. I have nothing against interracial couples and i am interracial myself, but im only thinking about the child.


Same logic. Try replacing "gay" with "autistic," "disabled," whatever. It's all the same thing.


You beat me to it. This is sort of like the attack to prevent theory that the U.S. used to justify Vietnam and Iraq. You can't be proactive about things that are outside of your control.



joshkuthak
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09 Jun 2011, 9:46 pm

Bloodheart wrote:
Racism means being against someone because of their race - I think you mean homophobic.

There's no reason why they'd never show up to the home of a child with homosexual parents again, if they're prejudice then that's their prejudice not a problem with the homosexual couple - by that reasoning black people, women, Jewish people, autistic people or any other group seen as a minority or that faces prejudice in wider Western society shouldn't be allowed to raise children.

There's no reason why people wouldn't be accepting, maybe it's different where you live - here very few people would have a problem - but then that again doesn't mean a homosexual couple shouldn't have children, prejudice doesn't just vanish and people shouldn't lay down and take prejudice. If a child is bullied or teased then the parents take care of that, homosexual parents are just as capable of this than parents of any other sexual orientation.

I'm fine with homosexual couples having children, although on the condition that they can give the child role-models who are both male and female - that's exactly the same as I'd want to see from heterosexual parents. Being raised by a single mother I had no male influences in my life, and I believe based on my experience that children should have male and female role models.

yeah sorry i misworded that. And i agree with you entirely that a child needs male and female influences which quite frankly a homosexual couple cant give, i was actually going to write that on here but i thought that would really upset people on here. i agree with you a child needs male and female influences



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09 Jun 2011, 9:48 pm

You may be well intentioned, but your logic is circular, and therefore self-defeating.
You advocate discriminating against gay couples because you're worried their kids may be discriminated against.
If discrimination is the problem you shouldn't make it the core of your solution. That's counterproductive.

Also, to say they shouldn't, and to say they shouldn't be allowed, are different arguments.
Even if we suppose they shouldn't, how is it any of the government's business to interfere?


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joshkuthak
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09 Jun 2011, 9:50 pm

DarrylZero wrote:
I edited your quote...

joshkuthak wrote:
Before anyone calls me racist I am a 15 yr old interracial person. I feel that interracial couples have every right to marry and we should all fight for that right, but i dont think an interracial couple should be allowed to raise children. You see, its just that i dont think it is a good environment for a child, I mean theyll go to school and try to make friends, and when they want to invite them over or have birthday parties and both the kids and parents see that the kid has interracial parents, then they may never show up to that kids place again. i know what you may be thinking, "well thats their fault, society needs to be more accepting and if they see good kids being raised by interracial couples then maybe they will start accepting" but lets face it, they wont be accepting, and the kid shouldnt have to grow up being teased and bullied because of that, since their only an innocent child. I have nothing against interracial couples and i am interracial myself, but im only thinking about the child.


Same logic. Try replacing "gay" with "autistic," "disabled," whatever. It's all the same thing.

Umm, i suppose, I still dont understand why you would need to change it to interracial.



joshkuthak
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09 Jun 2011, 9:57 pm

Fatal-Noogie wrote:
You may be well intentioned, but your logic is circular, and therefore self-defeating.
You advocate discriminating against gay couples because you're worried their kids may be discriminated against.
If discrimination is the problem you shouldn't make it the core of your solution. That's counterproductive.

Also, to say they shouldn't, and to say they shouldn't be allowed, are different arguments.
Even if we suppose they shouldn't, how is it any of the government's business to interfere?


Sorry i accidentally wrote be allowed, i didnt mean the government should get involved thats just a misstype. Well, Im not advocating discrimination i would, i would love it if i could come clean and not have to be put through heck by society, would love it if this world could exist without it,im only thinking about the children, I mean, its not them whos gay so why should they have to go through the same problems as their homosexual parents.



Last edited by joshkuthak on 09 Jun 2011, 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AngelKnight
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09 Jun 2011, 10:05 pm

joshkuthak wrote:
Before anyone calls me racist I am a 15 yr old homosexual. I feel that gays have every right to marry and we should all fight for that right, but i dont think a gay couple should raise children. You see, its just that i dont think it is a good environment for a child, I mean theyll go to school and try to make friends, and when they want to invite them over or have birthday parties and both the kids and parents see that the kid has gay parents, then they may never show up to that kids place again. i know what you may be thinking, "well thats their fault, society needs to be more accepting and if they see good kids being raised by gays then maybe they will start accepting" but lets face it, they wont be accepting, and the kid shouldnt have to grow up being teased and bullied because of that, since their only an innocent child. I have nothing against gays and i am gay myself, but im only thinking about the child.


In addition to the potential logic issues others have mentioned, you may wish to consider that there do exist parts of the world where a child being raised by two men or two women is likely not to be ostrasized for it by the majority of that child's neighbors.

For another logic issue, try:

AngelKnight misquoting joshkuthak wrote:
Before anyone calls me racist I am a 15 yr old minority. I feel that minorities have every right to marry and we should all fight for that right, but i dont think a minority couple should raise children. You see, its just that i dont think it is a good environment for a child, I mean theyll go to school and try to make friends, and when they want to invite them over or have birthday parties and both the kids and parents see that the kid has minority parents, then they may never show up to that kids place again. i know what you may be thinking, "well thats their fault, society needs to be more accepting and if they see good kids being raised by minorities then maybe they will start accepting" but lets face it, they wont be accepting, and the kid shouldnt have to grow up being teased and bullied because of that, since their only an innocent child. I have nothing against minorities and i am a minority myself, but im only thinking about the child.


(Disclaimer 1: Yes, I'll go there, in public, to demonstrate a point. I'm a minority in the US, and in fact I had the motherloving s**t [1] beat out of me at age 6 by a quartet of 14-year-olds, basically for being different (in this case, obviously by bloodline; I'm East Asian and the 4 kids ... weren't.) So I know of what I speak in regards to a worldview like the above with regard to race/bloodline.)

I think the point some people have in mind is that this sort of thing is a concession of defeat, in an arena of life where surrender is death (Disclaimer 2: my words, not anyone else's).

[1] Mmm, filtered views. Nice, and fair enough.



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09 Jun 2011, 10:29 pm

joshkuthak wrote:
Bloodheart wrote:
Racism means being against someone because of their race - I think you mean homophobic.

There's no reason why they'd never show up to the home of a child with homosexual parents again, if they're prejudice then that's their prejudice not a problem with the homosexual couple - by that reasoning black people, women, Jewish people, autistic people or any other group seen as a minority or that faces prejudice in wider Western society shouldn't be allowed to raise children.

There's no reason why people wouldn't be accepting, maybe it's different where you live - here very few people would have a problem - but then that again doesn't mean a homosexual couple shouldn't have children, prejudice doesn't just vanish and people shouldn't lay down and take prejudice. If a child is bullied or teased then the parents take care of that, homosexual parents are just as capable of this than parents of any other sexual orientation.

I'm fine with homosexual couples having children, although on the condition that they can give the child role-models who are both male and female - that's exactly the same as I'd want to see from heterosexual parents. Being raised by a single mother I had no male influences in my life, and I believe based on my experience that children should have male and female role models.

yeah sorry i misworded that. And i agree with you entirely that a child needs male and female influences which quite frankly a homosexual couple cant give, i was actually going to write that on here but i thought that would really upset people on here. i agree with you a child needs male and female influences


But a homosexual couple CAN give that - if a single woman adopts she can give a male influence via a male friend or brother, if a homosexual male couple adopt they can give a female influence via female friend or sister.


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09 Jun 2011, 11:38 pm

So, you're against gays having kids because you're afraid of the prejudice. Well, the only way prejudice can be effectively defeated is if people have enough exposure to those that are the objects of discrimination and bigotry. Afterall, prejudice--like other forms of hate--is begot by ignorance. If these kids that you speak of are exposed to homosexuality, then that's one step closer to acceptance. You are only exacerbating the problem by hiding. If it's their social well-being that you're concerned about, I'm not sure you want kids to be exposed to bigotry.

It's really all about the exposure; in complete contradiction to your pessimistic opinion. People can learn how to be more accepting towards others once they have been exposed. I grew up in Chicago, one of the most gay-friendly and minority-friendly cities in the US. Now in Chicago, you'd have a hard time finding a local who is a bigot. We've all grown up around each other, and we've all learned to accept differences. If we didn't learn tolerance, we couldn't live in such close proximity. So yes, it is totally possible that people can learn to be accepting. Now if I grew up in some middle-of-nowhere town, I'd have a much harder time accepting people because I was never exposed. By not exposing others to your lifestyle for fear of discrimination, you're really making the whole situation worse for everyone.


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10 Jun 2011, 3:07 am

Okay, first of all, a child's upbringing can be cause for ridicule by his peers in just about any sense of the word. What if a child is teased by his peers because he has poor parents? Should parents who are below the poverty line be disallowed from raising children because that child might be teased because of his economic situation? Or what about children whose parents belong to minority religious faiths? Or children who are raised in otherwise unconventional ways?

Some children's home situations are better off than others, but, the thing is, as long as a child's needs are being met and that child is not suffering from any abuse at the hands of his guardians, then the government has no business taking that child away from his home.


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10 Jun 2011, 10:00 am

It would be unconstitutional to prevent any one group from raising children. In theory it may help individuals lead easier lives but it is a form of discrimination. We need to understand that we can't dictate anyone else's lives.

A girl I know had a kid when she was 19. In my opinion, she is way too young and unfit to raise a child (that's for other reasons though, which I won't get into). Does that mean there should be a law preventing women from having children until they are of a certain age? No. There is no way to regulate another person's actions without an oppressive, discriminatory law- we can only hope for the individual's best intentions.

In regards to gay couples raising children, I don't think having gay parents is really any different from having straight parents. I have a number of friends who have gay parents, and it's all worked out for them. If anything, I find them all to be very loving, healthy, compassionate individuals. Besides, gender roles don't necessarily apply to an individual's sex - a parent can have both female and male influences. As long as a child is raised with unconditional love, I think everything will work out.



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10 Jun 2011, 10:07 am

joshkuthak wrote:
You see, its just that i dont think it is a good environment for a child, I mean theyll go to school and try to make friends, and when they want to invite them over or have birthday parties and both the kids and parents see that the kid has gay parents, then they may never show up to that kids place again.
There was a similar argument on WP that had to do with spectrumite parents having kids. The guy was trying to say that it would be cruel to bring an autistic/aspie child into the world because the kid will be made fun of and won't have any friends. I certainly had both of those problems, but that doesn't mean I would rather not be born. I certainly enjoy lots of things about my life, as do many other aspies.


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10 Jun 2011, 1:31 pm

I actually know people who say that interracial couples shouldn't have kids for the same reasons you mention. Oddly enough, the interracial people that I know are some of the most well-adjusted people I know.

I don't want kids myself, but it has nothing to do with being gay.



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10 Jun 2011, 2:28 pm

You don't defeat prejudice by giving in to it.