Gender...

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On the subject of gender, I truly believe that we should all be who we are, and not have to stick to predefined rules, if you are truly a male/female bodied person who is cisgendered (whatever that means in the context of your culture) then more power to you.

However, being a male bodied person that is dynamic in their identity and expression I get annoyed when people say things like "be a man" etc, first of all, that to me is a nothing phrase, based on probably outdated values and secondly, I am neither man nor woman most of the time, I just act how I want/need to, if that's "masculine" or "feminine" then so be it.

What do people here think of gender as a ever growing, shifting and dynamic thing, especially the expression of said subject?

I feel pretty much the same as you do. I really don't like the idea of "gender-appropriate behavior". It's plain sexism. It's everywhere. I'm a happily male-bodied person but I refuse to conform to the traditional gender expectations. Many people respond negatively to that but they can't say much about it because they do know they are being sexist. "Be a man" is sexist. Most people claim to support equality, fairness etc but their actions show that they don't really.

"What do people here think of gender as a ever growing, shifting and dynamic thing, especially the expression of said subject?"

You were talking about sexual identity. I'm male and identify with that sex, and like a lot of guys I find it difficult to imagine being in the wrong body. But I just read this article this morning and it describes physical brain differences in people with gender dysphoria. I know that there is a sexual di-morphism of the human brain and that some areas are larger in the male/female. So I guess it is possible for a male body to have a brain that leans toward the female brain structure. So if that makes one imagine he is the opposite sex it might be because his brain is similar to the that of the opposite gender. I'd imagine that there's something like that happening with homosexuals as well; something in the physical makeup of the brain that makes one attracted to members of the same gender.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0111672

Hope they don't mind if I copy the abstract here;

"Gender dysphoria (also known as ?transsexualism?) is characterized as a discrepancy between anatomical sex and gender identity. Research points towards neurobiological influences. Due to the sexually dimorphic characteristics of the human voice, voice gender perception provides a biologically relevant function, e.g. in the context of mating selection. There is evidence for a better recognition of voices of the opposite sex and a differentiation of the sexes in its underlying functional cerebral correlates, namely the prefrontal and middle temporal areas. This fMRI study investigated the neural correlates of voice gender perception in 32 male-to-female gender dysphoric individuals (MtFs) compared to 20 non-gender dysphoric men and 19 non-gender dysphoric women. Participants indicated the sex of 240 voice stimuli modified in semitone steps in the direction to the other gender. Compared to men and women, MtFs showed differences in a neural network including the medial prefrontal gyrus, the insula, and the precuneus when responding to male vs. female voices. With increased voice morphing men recruited more prefrontal areas compared to women and MtFs, while MtFs revealed a pattern more similar to women. On a behavioral and neuronal level, our results support the feeling of MtFs reporting they cannot identify with their assigned sex." see URL to read entire article

With all due respect Max, I wasn't talking purely about the science or sexual identity. I was talking about how gender identity and the expression of said gender may change over time either due to our own choices or what society thinks a gender should be.

I personally am fed up with everyone having to conform to this or that, whether they're in or outside of the normalcy of gender within a society. My point is that people should be themselves and no one should force them into a role, identity or expression of either that they aren't happy with.

Well I just saw the article and thought it was apropo. Sorry if I offended. And, yes, people should be free to be whatever they want to be. Problem is when you're born, you're assigned a rulebook of societal expectations that cover everything from how you must speak to where you can pee. Well there was the lady's revolution, the gay revolution, maybe identity freedom might be coming up

It's okay, you didn't offend. I was aware of the scientific aspect of sexual/gender identity but part of it is societal/cultural as well and thus I hope you're correct :3.

Of all the insults, criticism, hatred, etc. that's ever been directed toward me, "be a man" or "man up" (same thing, really) is probably the most offensive thing I've ever been told. Both men and women have said it to me.
Apparently, a "real man" is supposed to:

1. Have the body of Hercules
2. Never ever ever show any emotion other than rage, for any reason, under any circumstances
3. Have sex with at least one different woman every single day
4. Be the center of attention at all times, because he's got to be "alpha," whatever the hell that means
5. Own his own business, which he started at age 10
6. Move out on his own by age 13
7. Hunt, or at least pretend to hunt, because it's supposed to be instinct or something like that
plus many other nonsensical things.

I am the absolute opposite of "traditional masculinity," and I'm not changing for anyone or anything. The amount of hate I get for this is astounding.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwQBlNVqL-E][/youtube]

I think it's confusing as f***. I couple years ago I decided to stop being bothered by my sex, and just ignore sex and the concept of gender altogether. It has worked wonderfully and my confidence has grown because of it. Now to my dismay, there is a rising trend in placing massive significance on gender. People are talking about it constantly, creating numerous labels, trying to label everyone, and it's driving me nuts. I don't even know what "gender" is supposed to mean anymore. This has gotten out of hand.

Gender is what is between your ears, sex is what is between your legs.

Since my earliest days I have never had a problem with my gender, its the sex with which I had a problem. So I considered myself Transsexual before transitioning not Transgendered. Now I am a woman first and a transwoman second. And the only thing that makes me different to other women is my history.

That's pretty much spot-on.

Sex is determined by your 23rd chromosome pair. Gender is determined by your appearance and behavior.

Thus, an M2F transgendered person is still of the male sex, but is also of the female gender.

[opinion=mine]

Gender itself is a "spectral" state, in that a person's appearance can range from ultra-masculine to ultra-feminine, with no fixed point (behavior has a similar spectrum). A person's gender can change, depending on mood, diet, health, and other factors - sometimes on a daily, or even an hourly basis.

[/opinion]

Much easier test. If you have a plug between your legs you are male, and if a socket - female.

As for those who claim to be transgendered. In the mid/late 1990's the word transgender was coined as an umbrella term for those where there may be some confusion about their sex and gender.

In my eighteen years in the trans community I have NEVER met or heard of a transsexual person who is confused about their gender/sex. The abbreviations MtF and FtM relate only to transsexuals, ie. those who have or intend to transition.

Alison

Hmmm, at first I thought you were saying something else, this argument is usually put forward by people who deny transgender or transsexual people are the sex/gender they are.

So I understand but can't help but feel it's an over simplification, depending on how deep one goes, you can see that there can be genetic variations and that having a little tail or a sheath (latin) doesn't necessarily define our sex though for the sake of not starting an argument or wanting to hurt anyone I agree that it's perhaps best most of the time to define sex by the body and not go deeper. That could be a problem if you're intersex though..

Um, what do you mean by confused? Do you mean people know their sex/gender and thus by definition are not confused even if that sex/gender falls outside of "normal" sex/gender identities?

Last edited by InfoPunkie on 03 Jan 2015, 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

As for me though, I wouldn't transition until the technology to replace or change my body so I could have periods, get pregnant and/or give birth existed.

To clarify though: I have no qualms about people who choose or need to change their body, I don't see them as lesser human beings or not the sex represented by their body.

Life isn't a rehearsal. You only get one chance at it.

It doesn't make me overly unhappy to be in this body though and I am hoping on science and transhumanism to help us live for a long time.

I appreciate your understanding though.