Trans-inclusive language question

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Recently I've been considering the idea of adding a monthly chat for "autistic women and nonbinary people" to the list of Groups led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group (APLeG).

Last night, on Twitter, I ran into someone advocating that the term "women and nonbinary" be replaced by "marginalized genders," or "people of marginalized genders," to be inclusive of trans men and transmasculine people. So I did some Googling to see if other people were advocating this too, and came across this, this, this, this, and this.

It would be fine with me for the new group name to clearly include trans men and transmasculine people, but there's one big problem I see with naming the group "Autistic people of marginalized genders."

Theoretically, "marginalized genders" includes cis women, but it seems to me that most cis women will not immediately recognize that term as including them and thus will not be attracted to the group.

Does anyone have any other suggestions for a group name that clearly includes all women and all trans and nonbinary people?

I was thinking "women and marginalized genders," which is theoretically redundant, but I think it's necessary to mention "women" explicitly. Or perhaps just "women, nonbinary, and trans"?

[Note regarding my own gender identity: Throughout my adult life I've thought of myself as a gender-nonconforming (cis) woman. When I was little I was very much a tomboy and wanted to be called by a masculine name, but then, by gradeschool age, I concluded I was neither a typical girl nor a typical tomboy, being interested in neither dolls nor sports. As an adult, I've been told that I'm very "butch" in the way I talk and move. Had I grown up in today's world, I would likely think of myself as "nonbinary," but not "trans."]

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 05 Aug 2021, 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Are trans-women and trans-feminine men welcome in the group?

By default then, is it for everyone except cis men?

Yep, that's the idea.

Here in NYC at least, the local support groups tend to be very much dominated by cis men, and this situation tends to be self-perpetuating, alas.

Is adding nonbinary neccessary? I mean, it's going to end up being dominated by cis women anyway, in similar way like standard groups get dominated by cis dudes.

I'm guessing enbies basically have to make their own support group to feel safe.

Mona,

When you say the groups tend to be "dominated by cis men", do you mean there are far more cis men in attendance - or that the cis men who attend tend to dominate the conversation?

I am not sure what the current politics even is in saying "autistic people", I remember years back talking to someone over the difference of saying one is autistic and that one has autism.

Maybe rather than specify "of marginalised genders" it could be "marginalised by gender", or "marginalised in gender". That might leave it open to cis men getting involved, but I kind of wonder if that group at worst could be a few cis men with autism that think they marginalised because they are men and are angry against women for whatever reason, and at best you get some people who might be questioning.

I think autistic cis men could be marginalised without being "angry at women". They're autistic, after all. Autistic men aren't treated with much respect in the media, in social services, or anywhere lately. Maybe the cis man is a racial minority. Maybe they have other disabilities. Maybe they've been victimised in a crime. It's hard to judge who is or isn't marginalised, but of course this is Mona's group and it's her choice to have gender minorities. I'm just not sure what I'd call it so that it sounds inclusive of everyone except cis men.

I hope your group goes well Mona.

Obvious disclaimer that I am a cis man.

I think both you and this Twitter user have good points. You seem to recognise that their preferred term is in some semantic sense “more inclusive”, but I think you’re right that in practical terms it’s not immediately clear what “marginalised by gender” means, which might particularly be a concern for people with other marginalisations (learning difficulties or speaking English as a foreign language, for example).

Perhaps calling it “women and trans” with a description saying “for all people marginalised by gender” would strike a good compromise? It becomes clear what you are talking about and also helps spread the more inclusive term.

The idea of having both a relatively short name and a somewhat longer accompanying description is probably a good one.

But "Women and trans" doesn't include all nonbinary people, not all of whom identify as trans.

Both, but primarily the former, to the point that many women (and, I would assume, nonbinary and trans people of all genders too) are afraid to attend for that reason.

Perhaps the latter is necessary too, but I see no reason to exclude nonbinary people from a predominantly women's group.

MAP

Marginalised Autistic People.

It's also your initials MP, and you can say "Get on the MAP".

Lol -- I'm half asleep and giddy.

Honestly even though I'm not your target audience, I think you may be over-thinking this, I don't think you need to be quite so hyper-specific, and the language you're attempting to use is a moving target, constantly shifting.

To answer your question from the other thread, I wasn't directly involved in the women's group portion of my social group for obvious reasons, but from what I heard what happened what that a transwoman joined, got the other women to agree to change the group from just a "women's group" to a "women and trans" group, and then the group was overwhelmed with transwomen to the point where the cis-women were so outnumbered they stopped attending. This was in Seattle, where we have a higher than normal trans population, so your experience may vary, but that's how it went for us.

I feel like I'd be hesitant to go to a group that thinks cis women and trans people inherently have common interests, because in practice no matter what language they use, such groups tend to end up being "women and people we misgender as women".

Resulting in an inevitable conflict between "Us" and "Them".