Child with perfect pitch but difficulty reading music

Post Reply New Topic

Yeah, i have wondered about working with a different instrument too. It may be a good idea for him.

I never took violin lessons but can pick up my daughter's violin and play by ear with minor instructions from her as to holding the bow, etc. I wish i would have had the opportunity to take violin lessons as a child because i think i could "make it sing." Maybe i will teach myself with her violin in time.

I wanted my kids to take piano for the way it helps with visualizing where the notes are, etc. But DS is asking to take violin lessons like his sister. Maybe we will pursue that one too. But in time...$$ is also an issue as violins are not cheap.

Discussing music tends to bring out the best in people, the most coherence and sensibility in people.

I've enjoyed this discussion immensely. I can't contribute to it, though, owing to lack of knowledge.

I've just been exposed to the great aspects of the people present.

Your comment has rung a terrific bell with me!

Madame Chrétien, the wife of one of our Prime Ministers, spent years introducing music to Canadian schools. Each school got a piano and some instruments, a music teacher, etc. The expense was paid by the government, which was persuaded by the presentation of statistics re music -vs- violence, and how music wins out every time.

Now we have the US President trying to reduce violence, especially in the schools. Is this not the time to bring music into the schools, all schools everywhere? I'm serious. There seemed to be no solution but there is! Oh surely you've seen the 60 Minutes episode covering a man who just started up a band for children, and how it bloomed, etc. I'm not sure money would even be required to begin, given the generous nature of musicians.

Okay, we've found the solution to violence in the schools. Now what do we do?

I might have missed it in several of the well thought replies but why does ot matter?
I say this having played for years..i can 't read miusic and don't know theory, but i know good sounds and bad, which it sounds like your kid does too.
If you or they want to start with piano, they make some electronic keyboards that play songs and the keys you should hit to play them light up. It's a nice way to get the coordination and develop a memory of what area makes what sound, but after that, they can play songs by listening to the notes and replicating, or creating their own masterpieces, again, based on what sounds good - not what they're Supposed to do. (Which, i think in the end can result in far more creativity and a good outlet thasn rote "rules".

I also..i never wanted to learn to read or theory. My brain lives in math and logic and to learn that would take the spirit away from playing and made it another formulation that follows logic and set methods. Having the ability (coordination) plus instinctive timing and the eventual instinct of what comes next in what you're doing, keeps it a 'pure', emotional release and joy.

For some, theory and reading help them and they are able to then use the knowledge as a tool; but it's not the only way.

Someone mentioned it being needed to talk to other musicians..this is true and has been a deficit when i play with others and they say blah blah in key blah.
I have no idea what they're talking about and it wasn't until playing for years that i even couod follow them saying, oh, its c e f and translate it to my hands. But - i instead just say..okay, you start.. I listen and hear where they are and can jump in that way.

So it can create a bit of a loss in conversations About music..when playing together.. But, if you play alone, it doesn't matter. And, if you play with others, there are workarounds.

I think you definitely have the right approach in terms of keeping options open. Yes it's true that most pop stars are not musically literate, but remember they are a minority of paid musicians. There are a few exceptions, but in general I would say if you are serious about making a living off music you absolutely must be able to read. If you want to teach, be a session musician or play in the pit in musicals (and if you are living off music you will be doing all of these), reading ability is not negotiable, even for guitarists. I believe that to be a good musician you need to BOTH have a good ear and be able to read, I know a lot of people won't agree with me on this, but that's what I believe, I have seen too many talented musicians who are limited by their non-existent reading ability.

Whether to get students to read music is the number 1 contentious issue amongst guitar teachers, and many people have very strong opinions about this. Obviously, I am in the camp in favour of reading. When I get bombarded by questions as to why I teach kids to read, my answer is 'why not?'. You have nothing to lose, there are no drawbacks and many, many benefits to being musically literate, all those cries of 'don't learn to read, it'll destroy your creativity' are complete bulls**t, how do you explain all the great classical composers? The music in your head isn't going to magically disappear simply because you are literate.

There's no rush, just take it one step at a time, if it starts getting stressful, take a break from it for a while. I think what may be beneficial is instead of just getting him to try and sight-read, try and get him to write down music that he has written. He might write down a lot of rhythms incorrectly depending on how complicated they are, but that's okay, just focus on the pitches for now. That's what I did, I can tell you from experience that it's quite nostalgic cleaning your room and finding a song you wrote when you were 7. I have come across music I had written as a child or as a teen that I didn't even remember. It was only when I began teaching that I realised how unusual it was that I was writing songs in notated form from a young age.

In adolscence I was on the cusp of being ready to join an orchestra when I gave up practicing all forms of music out of frustration with "band" and depression. Having an overly rigorous theoretical approach and no outlet to ENJOY making music killed it for me. I began to hate making music. To resent it. It became a duty.

I wonder if you can find him a piano teacher that works with children routinely and also has a true passion for music--someone who is not content handing out "assignments" but also inspires your son to ask "why" and "how" music works. Is there a university near you whose music department would have good advice?

Have you considered other methods of learning? Video? Audio tapes about music? Youtube videos?

Have you considered exposing him to stories about young musicians like him who had natural talent but truly unlocked their full potential by learning the things he struggles with? Inspiration is so important.

Does your son see an OT? They may have some science-based insight on how to make this easier for him.

Have you considered hiring a teacher that has adapted Sinichi Suzuki's methods to the piano? You might try contacting your localollege or university's music department to see if they know of anybody that uses that method.

Personally (and no, I'm not a pianist), I'd rather have a student at that age start with book 1 of Bartok's Mikrokosmos. Bartok packs a lot of pedagogy in each song (or lesson, if you prefer) in that series of books.

Music theory IS the "how" and "why" of the way music works.

The difference, I believe, is in how it is taught. Theory can be taught as something boring that one "must" know, or it can be taught by discovery. Music theory can either be diminished to a bunch of facts and scale fingering patterns, or it can be a beautiful structure upon which music hangs.

Music theory is no more boring than Legos. Does the fact that Legos have particular pieces in particular colors squelch anyone's creativity? NO. Neither does knowing what a chord or a scale is or understanding some basic patterns in connecting these things together or understanding different rhythms squelch a kid.

Now, if someone were to *force* a kid to make a hundred of the exact same design using Legos by following a step-by-step guide, that would be boring. Music should not be taught that way, either. Music theory should be taught by discovery, as in "Let's see what else we can do!" Just like Legos can be used to form all kinds of structures the mind can imagine.

If music theory is anything, it is HARD. Not boring. It is like math. Again, it can be boringly taught by rote or it can be taught with a sense of wonder because it connects us to the BEYOND.

A lot of the problem with theory is that many musicians have learned it because they were required to, and they never fully understood it or enjoyed it. Ask them to teach it to kids, and it's more of the same....Memorize this. Why? Because I said so. What does it mean? I don't know. You just need to know it.

Did you consider another instrument for your child?
For piano, you need to read a lot of notes at a time.
For violin or cello, you have to read much less notes at a time, and your perfect pitch is a great value.

I'll try not to derail the thread any more than I already have (sorry about that, I was not intending to turn this into a theory/no theory debate), but I'll just point out that being aware of the basic rules of music theory doesn't mean you have to stick to them. I know a few student composers, and they are not even taken seriously if all they do is simply follow traditional harmony rules. I have received top marks on several uni composition assignments specifically because I broke the rules in an interesting way. Think of The Planets and the Rite of Spring for example, many of the greats of the last century are pieces in which the composer intentionally broke the rules. Heck, even some Beatles songs do this, such as Michelle. The only minor inconvenience that I can think of as a result of knowing your theory is that it becomes much more difficult to appreciate pop music, as you come to realise that the vast majority of it is very unoriginal and uses the same old overused rhythms and chord progressions that can be traced back to the 50's, or possibly even all the way back to Pachelbel's canon. However I think most people with a good ear realise that on their own anyway.

At the beginning level I think it is best to keep reading and theory separate for the time being, introducing theory in small doses as is relevant to the music being learned. For example, if a piece is in G Major, I will teach the student their G Major scale, but I won't bombard them with all the information about the structure of a Major scale, and how it differs from other scales. I have come across people who do this and I can see how people can be put off reading and theory altogether as a result. I have my students read written music, but I let them take as many shortcuts as they want, for example writing in letter-names or fingering numbers (although I get them to do this themselves rather than doing it for them). I print out their sheet music in colour, giving a different colour to each string, that way students can add numbers if necessary and it is just like reading a guitar tab, but they are still looking at the 'real' music and learning their rhythms, articulations, etc.

I have had a few students who still struggle even with all this assistance and I've had to give up on having them read music, however quite interestingly, all of these cases have been students who were transferred to me having been learning for several years without any theory whatsoever, I once had a group of kids who didn't even know their letter names, they had just been playing basic rock riffs from tabs, without even knowing what notes and chords they were playing. At their first lesson I asked them to show me what they had been doing to get an idea of where they were, I then asked them to 'play a E chord' and they couldn't, even though there was one in the song they had just played, they had been playing it without knowing that it is known as a E chord.

Saxnerd, i think i probably started this as a theory-no theory debate in my original question. i can see there are pros and cons to both sides of it. It sounds like some basic knowledge is good for almost any musician, but not necessarily a necessity for all types of music. Although knowledge of theory and some basic music reading skill makes you a more versatile musician. As i said earlier, i am gaining a lot of good insight from this discussion. I would have probably gone farther in music if i had been allowed to switch to a different instrument at some point, and been encouraged in my playing by ear and creativity. But that is water under the bridge and i will do my best not to make the same mistake with my kids.

Was it Mark Twain who said that, once a steamboat captain learned to navigate every rock and current in the river, the beautiful poetry of the landscape was gone? I don't think music has to be that way though; if anything, learning how the parts fit together into a whole will make it more beautiful and give it new dimension.