Hey, Baby-Boomers! D'ya like Led Zepplin?

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Fnord
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15 Jan 2019, 9:37 am

Do you like Led Zepplin? Maybe you won't after you read this...

Jimmy Page (Led Zepplin): Rape of a child. In 1972, Jimmy became obsessed with a 14-year old girl. He followed her to a bar one night and raped her. She fled to a different bar. He followed her there, and sent a friend over to tell her that Jimmy was going to have her whether she liked it or not. The friend then kidnapped her, took her to the Led Zepplin compound and literally thrown into Jimmy's bedroom. That was the beginning of several years of sexual slavery. She was kept under lock and key, because Jimmy was afraid that he would be deported back to England or imprisoned if the authorities found out that he had raped a minor.

Had this happened today, the media would be screaming for his castration, to say the least!

(As a side note, I have to wonder why baby boomers think that the testosterone-laced, drug-fueled "music" of bands like Led Zepplin is so great. In the Los Angeles area, there are still FM radio stations devoted to nothing but "Boomer Music". Personally, I like a more eclectic mix, with an occasional piece of hard rock.)



Astroecho
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23 Jan 2019, 7:36 am

It appears that David Bowie got her first... https://www.thedailybeast.com/david-bow ... pe-problem. If any of the sites are to be believed he's 72 now and going out with a 26 year old.
Im shocked that so many got away with so much, but then again it seemed that lots of people were abusing their positions. :(



magz
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23 Jan 2019, 8:43 am

Quote:
In Ghana, Mali, Tanzania, Jamaica and the United States, at least one in seven women aged 20-24 had had sex before their 15th birthday

From: https://www.guttmacher.org/journals/ips ... -countries

I take it's illegal. But US is among the leading countries in under-15 female sex. So the law is evidently ineffective. Why?
Something causing such a moral outrage and yet so common.

I would like to listen to the stories from the groupies' perspective. Never knew any to tell me what she thougth about it.


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Magna
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23 Jan 2019, 8:56 am

Fnord wrote:
Do you like Led Zepplin? Maybe you won't after you read this...

Jimmy Page (Led Zepplin): Rape of a child. In 1972, Jimmy became obsessed with a 14-year old girl. He followed her to a bar one night and raped her. She fled to a different bar. He followed her there, and sent a friend over to tell her that Jimmy was going to have her whether she liked it or not. The friend then kidnapped her, took her to the Led Zepplin compound and literally thrown into Jimmy's bedroom. That was the beginning of several years of sexual slavery. She was kept under lock and key, because Jimmy was afraid that he would be deported back to England or imprisoned if the authorities found out that he had raped a minor.

Had this happened today, the media would be screaming for his castration, to say the least!

(As a side note, I have to wonder why baby boomers think that the testosterone-laced, drug-fueled "music" of bands like Led Zepplin is so great. In the Los Angeles area, there are still FM radio stations devoted to nothing but "Boomer Music". Personally, I like a more eclectic mix, with an occasional piece of hard rock.)


Lori Mattix. You can read about her. Was it right that he had sex with an underage girl? Of course not. According to what I've read she was a rock groupie at the time and it was consensual. Again, does that make it right? Not given her age.

This would be part of an interesting debate on whether we shouldn't separate a person's art from the person. Or in which cases should we and shouldn't we. William S. Burroughs was a total loser in many ways in how he fled rather than face shooting his wife in the head (even if it really was accidental), and I think he had a penchant for underage boys if I recall correctly. Many people like his work in spite of it.

I'll will continue to like the music of Led Zeppelin, the band.



Fnord
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23 Jan 2019, 9:12 am

[sarcasm]

"But the girl was a whore and a junkie! That makes everything alright!"

[/sarcasm]

:roll: No, it doesn't. Yes, the art and the artist should be judged separately. Certainly, Led Zepplin's music is timeless.

But at the end of the day, an adult male had sex with a female child.

Here is the link to the original article, which includes similar revelations about musicians from the same era. There are even women who brag about their back-stage escapades with entire rock-and-roll bands (i.e., this article on "Sweet Sweet Connie").



kraftiekortie
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23 Jan 2019, 9:17 am

There's nothing wrong with a 72-year-old man going out with a 26-year-old women. They're both adults. And it happens all the time. And it's legal.

A grown man having sex with a 14-year-old. Different story. Not legal.



Magna
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23 Jan 2019, 10:13 am

I have mixed feelings personally about separating the art from the person as to when, what degree, etc. While I can separate the art of the entire band of Led Zeppelin and still enjoy them, I personally can't do it with Roman Polanski and his films. I think it's wrong to see other artists in Hollywood sticking up for the guy.



Fnord
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23 Jan 2019, 10:25 am

Magna wrote:
I have mixed feelings personally about separating the art from the person as to when, what degree, etc. While I can separate the art of the entire band of Led Zeppelin and still enjoy them, I personally can't do it with Roman Polanski and his films. I think it's wrong to see other artists in Hollywood sticking up for the guy.
Yet J.Page and R.Polanski both committed similar crimes -- sex with a child.

Personally, my opinions of their art has not significantly changed, as I was never really a fan of either artist.



Magna
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23 Jan 2019, 10:31 am

Fnord wrote:
Magna wrote:
I have mixed feelings personally about separating the art from the person as to when, what degree, etc. While I can separate the art of the entire band of Led Zeppelin and still enjoy them, I personally can't do it with Roman Polanski and his films. I think it's wrong to see other artists in Hollywood sticking up for the guy.
Yet J.Page and R.Polanski both committed similar crimes -- sex with a child.

Personally, my opinions of their art has not significantly changed, as I was never really a fan of either artist.


Led Zeppelin is a band made up of four people. Roman Polanski is a single person. I'm guessing that has something to do with it for me.



kraftiekortie
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23 Jan 2019, 10:39 am

I like Bob Dylan as an artist. I believe he deserved the Nobel Prize.

As a person is another matter.

I believe in separating the person from the art.



Astroecho
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23 Jan 2019, 4:04 pm

This is an interesting map...age of consent around the world followed by a list of countries and age of consent
. It appears if he were in Japan or Spain we wouldn't be having this conversation! http://chartsbin.com/view/hxj



magz
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24 Jan 2019, 7:00 am

Astroecho wrote:
This is an interesting map...age of consent around the world followed by a list of countries and age of consent
. It appears if he were in Japan or Spain we wouldn't be having this conversation! http://chartsbin.com/view/hxj

Yup, age of consent is an arbitrary line for use of the law.

I don't live in the US but from what I gathered, in many states the age of consent is 18 and, well... do people really keep to this? The popular culture shows quite a different picture, what is the reality?


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ASPartOfMe
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24 Jan 2019, 7:27 am

If I were unable or unwilling to seperate artists from thier art especially pop music artists and especially since this is directed at baby boomers classic rockers I might as well not listen to any music or or bother with movies for that matter. Rockers having sex with minors was rampant, aquentience rape was not considered rape and teenage boys looked up to the rockers specifically because of the reputation that they had underage groupies waiting for them in every city. And as Fnord pointed out this mentality fueled the sound and the lyrics of the music, that is why music critics coined the term Cock Rock.

My not listining to them does not mess up thier careers or help thier victims in any meaningful way, it only denies me enjoyment, so most often I do seperate the artist from the art. But not always. There are exceptions, I just can not bring myself to watch a Jane Fonda movie because she visited opposing solders during wartine and sat on guns used to shoot at American planes. That is not logical. I have watched and listened to peoples whose political actions I find terrible, this happened well over 4 decades ago, the war is long over, we have relations with Vietnam, and she has apologized for it a number of times.

Oldies and Classic Hit stations even in this #MeToo era still regularly play “Young Girl” by Gary Puckett and the Union Gap. I am defiantly not the pro self censor type but if I was a program director I would never play that song even though the protaganist successfully resists the urge to have sex with a minor because it’s “way out of line”. Ringo’s “Your Sixteen Your Beautiful(And You’re Mine) would also be banned on my hypothetical station.

As for Jimmy Page the sheer viciousness of what he did probably will cause me not to listen to his solo work but not Zep as a whole.


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Fnord
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24 Jan 2019, 9:49 am

@ASPartOfMe: That all makes sense to me. To put a political slant on it, the speeches of JFK and MLK can still be inspiring, even though both were (allegedly) womanizers who (allegedly) cheated on their wives.



Astroecho
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24 Jan 2019, 2:57 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
If I were unable or unwilling to seperate artists from thier art especially pop music artists and especially since this is directed at baby boomers classic rockers I might as well not listen to any music or or bother with movies for that matter. Rockers having sex with minors was rampant, aquentience rape was not considered rape and teenage boys looked up to the rockers specifically because of the reputation that they had underage groupies waiting for them in every city. And as Fnord pointed out this mentality fueled the sound and the lyrics of the music, that is why music critics coined the term Cock Rock.

My not listining to them does not mess up thier careers or help thier victims in any meaningful way, it only denies me enjoyment, so most often I do seperate the artist from the art. But not always. There are exceptions, I just can not bring myself to watch a Jane Fonda movie because she visited opposing solders during wartine and sat on guns used to shoot at American planes. That is not logical. I have watched and listened to peoples whose political actions I find terrible, this happened well over 4 decades ago, the war is long over, we have relations with Vietnam, and she has apologized for it a number of times.

Oldies and Classic Hit stations even in this #MeToo era still regularly play “Young Girl” by Gary Puckett and the Union Gap. I am defiantly not the pro self censor type but if I was a program director I would never play that song even though the protaganist successfully resists the urge to have sex with a minor because it’s “way out of line”. Ringo’s “Your Sixteen Your Beautiful(And You’re Mine) would also be banned on my hypothetical station.

As for Jimmy Page the sheer viciousness of what he did probably will cause me not to listen to his solo work but not Zep as a whole.

I wish WP had a like button. I'd never really thought of lifestyle of artists and not liking their art before this thread.



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07 Feb 2019, 2:45 pm

Yeah, Jimmy Page...I heard about that nasty stuff years ago. Not a good chap.

I never care for Led Zepplin to much, although I admit they did great music. It just wasn't my cup of tea.


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