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Neuromancer
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27 Apr 2007, 4:53 am

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I both write and publish. .


Your comments about writing a book are very instructive, and you also recomend writers to ask some people to read it.

After the book is writen and commented by some people, what is the next step? How to publish it?


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27 Apr 2007, 10:31 am

I went for self publication, which is common, a publisher has to sell about 10,000 copies in the US to turn a profit. There is editing, cover art, $3 to $5 a copy for printing, and then writers think they should be paid. So it is at least a $50,000 gamble, and there are lots of new writers. A lot of bad books get published.

Doing your own editing and cover design, having a minimum of 1500 printed, most printers charge the same for 500, 1000, or 1500, you pay for the setup, then machine time and paper and ink are cheap. It still cost $10,000.

Selling 1500 from a dead stop is hard. Web marketing is new and great. Several online booksellers will list, run the creditcard, for 15% to 20%, they do not promote.

Squire here is going that route, Through my Eyes, my life with Aspurger's, which I bought and it is a great book. Squire has done at least one TV interview, mentions his book here, is getting some local press, which is all good. Aspurger's is a good limited market, 2,000,000 in the US. It does cross into other markets, teachers and other people who work with aspie kids.

It's marketing problem is it is not general interest, but few are, Quilt Making only appeals to some. The books still sell well within their limited market, if squier sold one book to 1% of the Aspurger population, he will sell 20,000. The problem is getting to the market, until a few months ago I had never heard of Aspurger's. So TV interviews, squire being 14 and a published writer is a bigger selling point, a little professor tells the world about Aspurger's.

Once he sells out the first printing, proving the book sells, a larger print run, and he can stock the shelves at Borders, Barnes&Nobel, and get more customer contact, which sells, and even better, touring for book signings.

He has a small but high demand market, several good marketing angles, and book signings, writer speeches, make the local news. It is work. It does sell books.

Some books sell themselves, I sell several on ebay, they are for small markets, would never be worth shelf space in a bookstore, but I have the world for a market, and a few sales pay for the means of production. They paid for me to publish.

Thomas Jefferson said, "Freedom of the press means owning one."

I tried to desktop publish for ten years, then the machines caught up, and a used HP LaserJet 5000 is a workhorse of a machine. I have a book I wrote, 271 pages, and the copy shop wants $22.50 a copy, I print it for $3. Another $4 gets them spiral bound with the good vynal covers front and back, and it is a book, for $7.

It is where I am on my book, not done. It is still a manuscript, it needs editing, being set up as a book, fonts chosen, and pictures. What I have is something I can send out for comment. It is hard to proof read your own work, as you made the errors, and have read over them many times, let other eyes find the faults, I am more than face blind.

I have an attachment to my work, I would rather self publish and maintain all rights. A book sold is gone, I look forward to a second edition, when I can afford good color and slick paper. It is a screen play, I am story boarding it, and it would be best done as animation.

So far each step has paid for the next. The work is in creating the story, and the added effort to self publish is minor. It is learning, and the book is only part of my vision of the work. We no longer just bang on a typewritter and drink, stories are written for current and future media. Books are now written with screen rights being the big payoff. The closer to the final goal, the more skilled the storyteller.

Mine is an Epic, I started in the 1980s with an Ovetti Electric, and have been through a half dozen computers since then. Good printers did not become available used till 2003. LaserJet is not waterproof, but some of the HP 5000 series can make offset masters, which run on a real press, and are good for 1500 copies. The more prepress work done, the better the product, and lower cost.

New writers, or people like me who put it all in one story, should self publish. New writers are sellable if they got a book done, and sold out the first printing. Writers need those TV spots, a scrapbook of print reviews, and working writers groups, getting to know book reviewers, speaking at creative writing classes, book clubs, (lots of bored older women, who would like to get to know you better) and the first book is just a means of building a name as a writer.

After a fair amount of book and self promotion, you are a name, and a second book, can be sold with the proven first which makes a good package to market to publishers. Publishers look for writers who will promote the work, tour for book signings, self promote, and they will aid you for you have common goals.

Just how to go about it has to do with what you write. Poetry and short stories work best in Literary magazines, romances, science fiction, detective stories, in paperback, and big novels in hardback. Your work has a market segment, and it is worth it to learn how many books sell in what fields, who publishes them, and what bookstores sell them. The more you know the less dumb things you will say.

It helps to track down other writers. Most people do not want to mention what they get paid, but if you are buying lunch and drinks, they will let out a lot. Writers are a poor misunderstood lot, so someone who has read their work, and buys drinks, is seen as smart. It is the path to other introductions. The same can be run on book reviewers, they are so wise and well read, and also like lunch and drinks.

Publishing and marketing is a small government, a dictatorship, lobby, introduce yourself, and do not anger the generals. Some of them are rich older women who want to discover writers, to show at parties, show up clean and sober, sip a half glass of wine, pretend to enjoy your self, and leave early, so your hostess can take credit for your existance. Do it right an she might invite you for a private lunch.

The more you know the less it costs. Who prints the books, where do they drink after work, a few rounds of beers can get your book printed for half of just walking in the door. The world is a racket, be a player. If you want to meet someone, do not just call them, find out who they know, that might be easier for you to meet, and like the rich lady general, an introduction from her will be treated with respect.

When I go after someone I buy a notebook, and write down everything I learn about them. For a writer it would include everything they have in print, dates, total sales, a guess at income generated, who they know, their publisher, ex publisher, wives and ex wives, patrons, enemies, age, education, for a little knowledge goes a long way. If you learn they really hate another writer, and say his work is so bad it should have never been printed, you have made a friend.

Once you have an overview of the book market, the players, and have worked the crowd to become known, you can settle down and write. The strangest thing is who buys and reads your work, find out why, write for them. Find the formula that works for you and your readers. Your brain is not a good judge of flattery, as soon as you can write down what happened, comments, for their real meaning takes time to sink in. From bits and pieces learn your demographic, and who is who in that market segment.

Writing is an art, selling books is a business. The better you are at the second, the better your chances at the first. You may find that all the romance writers have the same agent, who has a brother in law who publishes them all. Then investagate the agent, learn everything you can before arranging an introduction. Some rich lady may own most of the publishing company, you want to meet her.

If it is for sale, do not marry your work, some editing jobs it is hard to see what you wrote, but they are paying, so let them, and write more just like they butchered the last. They do know what sells for them, and in the choice between great art and money, they are in business. Read what they publish, it will tell you what they want. When you deal with a publishing house learn what writers they publish, who their agents are, know the playing field.

I started calling myself a Publisher when I sold a stack of books taller than myself. I am good with machines and would buy an HP Platemaker, a version of the 5000, and let some printer run them. I am art impaired, but most good artists are money impaired, so it works out. I have a photographic background, I can figure out four color process, and software does color seperation now.

From what I save on art and pre press work, I can afford high quality paper, hardback covers, and present my work, not just the cheap mass produced book format. Cutting out the middle men means cutting in artists, embossed covers, art quality paper, and if I break even I did it, and future editions can be mass market.

Some printers are artists, the same for bookbinders, learn the trade. It will cost more than glossy paste board, but if you support the arts they will support you. If your printer also does the best art books, you might have a small job and still be a patron of the arts. Meet the man who rebinds collectors rare books in Moroccan leather, with marbled endplates.

Learn, learn, learn, write, write, write.



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27 Apr 2007, 12:31 pm

Inventor wrote:
I went for self publication, which is common, a publisher has to sell about 10,000 copies in the US to turn a profit. There is editing, cover art, $3 to $5 a copy for printing, and then writers think they should be paid. So it is at least a $50,000 gamble, and there are lots of new writers. A lot of bad books get published.

Learn, learn, learn, write, write, write.


I learned again a lot of you said, very thanks!
And you gave me so many ideas despite great scale differences among our countries, it is to say, I mustn't even dream with the book amounts you mentioned, anyway costs here would be very much lower than those above.

I am, in fact, thinking in look for the big editors, and I thought fun your advices although they won't be ofgreat help for me because once I open my big mouth I will say what should be said, thus all those strategies won't hold.

Even though, this idea of presenting myself at a cute way sounds good, although I will prefer the editors don't be old ladies but young ones.

Well, it is ok, in fact I believe I wrote a very aspie book, and that is the only kind of book I would be able to write, what puts me at a great companion ship. :D

After all, I don't succeed in this tryes I will come to read all this again and think in publishing it myself, what is really much cheapper here.

Thanks again, your comments were again of a great help :!:


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27 Apr 2007, 1:41 pm

Neuromancer,

I have the same, I wrote for years before I ever heard of Aspurger's, and guess what! We can not get away from it, but we do have a market, and it will sell outside of the aspie market.

I love Rio. New Orleans is a second class carnaval, always wanted to see Rio.

True you have a smaller market, but small works get published in 27 languages.

Older women control most of the money, so play the game, and they will introduce you to the younger who just love writers.

I know there is a differance between our countries, Brazil has fun, music, love, art, dancing, girls, real girls, girls that cause broken necks by walking down the street. The food is great, when our university went to study geology in Sete Lagoas, Minas Gerias, they brought home pictures of lunch.

El Colossis del norte has a market for books, but do not look forward to lunch. I have never met a Brazilian who was not homesick within hours of coming here, and we are the most international of American cities.

We are only a boat ride apart, lots of books are published offshore, not only better prices, but better quality, Rio is more like Europe in culture and skill, with South American prices.

Besides myself, I am promoting aspie writing, because I know we are great. I sent a copy of squires book to Australia, it is a good introduction for kids, parents, teachers, and I will help with marketing if I can. When the first printing sells out we could make a Brazilian offer.

Same to you, your work edited into English, printed in Rio, can be sold in America. With mine that makes three, and KBABZ has a lot of story that will become a book. I think aspies are natural writers, and it will cross sell in the NT world as art. Together we can become an international publishing house.

I also sell prints, and am working the artists here, we have some great ones with not a drop of business sense. Aspie and artist? What do you expect! The market is there and we can get our share. The great thing is once the flow starts, NTs can be hired for the over social and boring parts. Lots of English Major girls who want to work with the talent.

I have a deal with Greece on motorcycle parts, my ebay sales are worldwide, and this new economy is just getting going. Since we are full time aspie, we should be making money from it. Aspie House has a future. We are Neuro-Ethnic. Aspies are readers, we got a deal.



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27 Apr 2007, 3:22 pm

Inventor wrote:
I love Rio. always wanted to see Rio.

True you have a smaller market, but small works get published in 27 languages.

study geology in Sete Lagoas, Minas Gerias, they brought home pictures of lunch.
.


Hi again Inventor.
Have you been in other places here than Minas? New Orleans has a great music, hasn't it? isn't it among more fun places in US?

This idea of publishing for the world seems really good.

And... I was thinking... if I have to edit myself how to distribute it? This seem to me the great problem about myself editing the book, even knowing that anyway few volumes will be printed, I think 3 000 printings here is a dream...

well, I will now look for editors adress!! !


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27 Apr 2007, 4:38 pm

Neuromancer,

I never made it to Brazil, just some geology students, and someone I met from Seate Lagoas.

It is one of those places, "I went for the weekend and that was 22 years ago, New Orleans of old was like that, passing through, stopped for a beer, ten years went by.

Now it is over, Katrina flooded our hole in the ground, and the government killed all hope. We live in the ruins. Not much music, not much joy.

Portugese is a small language, not much book market in Spanish, Europe and America do buy translations. It is said the differance between Americans and Mexicans is Mexicans can learn a second language. Some South American writers have made a name here.

Here you can break in with web marketing and hype. Book stores want 50% and they want to pay in one to two months, so filling the shelves costs. I would think aspie writer/artists, web based, we need a web site, leave links about.

Like me, I think it will take some time to have a finished product, but aspie writers and artists should stick together. I would like to know what you find out about your production costs.

We can start the Aspie Review and hype our own. Books are books and selling is selling, better less sales at a high margin with low overhead, and low cost market entry.

I have no idea of marketing your work without reading it. Where does it fit, market sector. I like art, but business pays for it.



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27 Apr 2007, 6:09 pm

Probably, after Katrina, New Orleans seems like here.
I think Brazilian books are only selled in Brazil, not even in Portugal.
I really don't know about costs, but I would estimate something less then half the price there, but I am blind about it.
I've been looking editors web site here and they ask for the originals by mail (not e-mail), well I will send some, but many of them seem verynot professional even very big ones, with web site out, well...
And they ask for about 4 months to read it, what will generate me a great ansiety.


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27 Apr 2007, 10:42 pm

Neuromancer,

First things first, file a Copyright. Produce a manuscript, one side printed, double spaced.

Put it in English and I will read it.

Step at a time it seems endless but moves forward. Learning and doubt take up a lot of energy.

Being a writer is like being an aspie, there you jolly well are.

The thing to do is the next step, and the next, and do not be sure of the future and what you do not know.

Orphio Negro was a big hit movie here, Bosa Nova, Samba, culture plays in our dull lives.

This is your planet and your world market.



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28 Apr 2007, 3:04 pm

Inventor wrote:
Neuromancer,
First things first, file a Copyright. Produce a manuscript, one side printed, double spaced.
Put it in English and I will read it.
Step at a time it seems endless but moves forward. Learning and doubt take up a lot of energy.
Being a writer is like being an aspie, there you jolly well are.
The thing to do is the next step, and the next, and do not be sure of the future and what you do not know.
Orphio Negro was a big hit movie here, Bosa Nova, Samba, culture plays in our dull lives.
This is your planet and your world market.

Hi! wow, I am still not thinking in translations :-) let me first notice how people here will get it! I liked the old Orphio Negro didn't see its remake. And I like bossa nova that is fashioned again after 50 years! :-)
very thanks for your offer of reading the translation that I won't be able to do by myself, but it is to earl to tihk in it.


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29 Apr 2007, 8:13 pm

I could never write a novel.



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07 May 2007, 8:27 pm

Neuromancer,

I never heard Orphio Negro was remade, I liked the original and the music of all the south came to New Orleans with the boats. We are the third largest city in Honduras.

Keep pounding those keys!

jimservo,

You never know until you try. Motorcycles and writing have been the best things in my life.



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07 May 2007, 10:43 pm

I write although I've yet to get published. It would help if I put more effort into publishing, which I intend to do someday. LOL.

I recommend getting a hold of a book called Self-Editing for Fiction Writers, by Renni Browne and Dave King. It's a very helpful primer for writing readable fiction, as well as for impressing on you what editors want (both authors are editors as well as writers).

Another thing is make a notebook with character sketches, drawings, any tidbit or clipping that inspires you about your book, fragments of dialogues or descriptive passages, whatever. Many successful authors did/do this, from Dostoevsky to JK Rowling. Carry that notebook with you obsessively (of course, also be wary of misplacing it - be vigilant!) so it's there whenever you want to jot down an idea. it's not just good for recording and keeping your ideas straight, but also whenever you're feeling uninspired. Just go back to the notebook and ruminate over it.

Once you start writing, assuming you're up to date and are doing this on a computer, print out hard copies of your work every so often. Stop writing for a couple of days (ideally you should be writing as much as you can every day) and then look at those hard copies, reading them like a reader and not a writer. Have a red pen on hand and make notes and corrections (and of course be sure to tranfer that to your digital copy - I know this sounds labor intensive, and it is. It's just something seeing it on paper vs on screen can make you see things in your writing you didn't see before). If you find yourself disliking certain things and aren't sure how the fix them, just mark them and come back from time to time. Or ask other writerly sorts for input.

Accept from the start that there may be times you have to make big chances and rewrite big sections. Sometimes more than once. Don't worry - it happens to the best of writers. Just ask Hemingway.

Having said that, don't delete or discard your original drafts after big changes. You may want to reference those later, or even cannibalize them for a different section or for another story.

Lastly, check out this site - How to Write a Novel in 100 Days or Less. While I'm not necessarily saying you should follow that regime day by day or utilize every scrap of advice they offer, at least this can give you additional ideas on how to get it done and assure you that it can be done.

Good luck!



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09 May 2007, 12:29 am

I'm a long time writer, and like the others have been saying...write, write, write...even if it's total shite the first time you can always edit. I would also set it aside at intervals and come back with a fresh perspective and continue to write/edit. Find a word processor that allows you to write in small chunks, or scenes. I have two word processing programs, One to just write the other to spell check and grammar check. The first is called Ywriter, (a free word processor, useful in writing in small chunks) the other is Open office (a free word processor that works just like word) There are also sites to where other writer's gather, one to which I belong is a site called Forward motion. The site was founded by a well published writer. Also find music that inspires what you write, it can help get through the difficult parts.

If you can get it to work properly for you, voice recognition can be a great aid to writing as you can let your words flow. I use it to re-enter text I have as hard copy, if i lose the data. It also allows me to see how everything "sounds" or if it doesn't flow well. With this however, you may have to hand edit as sometimes it will miss hear a word or two. It also helps with pronunciation and speaking.

Sorry for being a bit zealous, Writing is one of the ways I escape and prevent major melt-downs, and I am passionate about writing. Please forgive any run-on sentences or bad grammar, I'm used to my spell/grammar check....