Is it bad I still like metal and punk at my age?

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Sweetleaf
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23 Aug 2017, 9:31 am

b9 wrote:

i am mystified at the musical appreciation many people have for "metal" music.

to me it is like a mood or attitude style of music.

it's like a an emotional screaming protest at some tortuous feelings that plague the mind of it's inspirators.

it's just so raucous sounding, and i am young enough to have been exposed to heavy metal in my teens, and i heard it as a hodge podge of angry sounding sonic iterations of some dark mood.

there is little melodic complexity in heavy metal music because there is no room for delicacy of performance.

usually it is just 3 chords that are screeching renditions of some sort of teenage angst.

whatever.

i like bright, multilayered compositions that are considered more from a melodic point of view than a "wipe your soiled toilet paper in someones face" kind of music.

i did try to play some metal songs on my piano, but it's boring to play in a flat piano sounding way.

i will post shortly a heavy metal song i covered just as an experiment, and ....well yeah.

heavy metal fans will tell me i missed the point entirely i am sure.

Well that is a ridiculous perspective, there are lots of different styles of metal and thousands and thousands of metal bands. I don't get the impression from most metal that it is 'wipe your soiled toilet paper in someones face' type music...are you sure it's heavy metal you have heard? That sounds like something people who haven't bothered to really look into what metal is or the different styles says...not someone who really took the time.

I mean listen to this and tell me it, doesn't have melodic complexety...and is 3 chords of teenage angst:

That is more inspiring than angsty...lol

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Marknis
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23 Aug 2017, 10:30 am

b9 wrote:

Your points are very ignorant and are so old that they shouldn't even exist anymore.

Listen to vocalists like Bruce Dickinson, Ronnie James Dio, and Rob Halford. They do not scream but rather use wide ranged opera inspired vocals. A lot of their lyrics are a far cry from what you are stereotyping them as.

For example, Iron Maiden's Number Six (The Prisoner):

"Not a prisoner, I'm a free man
And my blood is my own now
Don't care what the past was
I know where I'm going"

That sounds more hopeful and empowering than pessimistic.

3 chords? Seriously? Couldn't you detect more than 3 chords in Master of Puppets? Either you are confusing early punk music with metal or you are just ignorant.

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23 Aug 2017, 11:10 am

Sweetleaf wrote:

That is more inspiring than angsty...lol

I can accept people saying metal isn't their cup of tea and it's too intense for them but when they say it's all "screaming and yelling" as well as "weird guitar noise", I have to speak up. It's usually rednecks and gangster rappers who've only heard something like Korn and by extension think all metal must be the same. The thing is Korn don't even consider themselves metal. People who think it's "weird guitar nose" need to actually see how the guitarists play to realize it takes a lot of coordination to play a lot of metal riffs.

funeralxempire
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23 Aug 2017, 3:52 pm

Hopefully we'll both still like metal and punk when we're borderline senile. :lol:

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guitarman2010
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23 Aug 2017, 8:46 pm

I'm 33 and still like those genres.

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funeralxempire
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24 Aug 2017, 3:54 pm

b9 wrote:

Metal (and other fast, guitar-based music) usually isn't very suitable for playing on keyboards.

Metal typically is more complex than just three chords, but even metal bands/songs that do only rely on very simple riffs often arrange them in far more sophisticated compositions than typical of pop/rock/folk/verse-chorus-verse pablum.

As for melodic complexity, it very much depends on the subgenre, melodic (anything) metal and power metal tend to have fairly interesting melodies and harmonizing. That said, since certain intervals create odd-sounding harmonics when distortion is added this tends to encourage artists towards using root+fifth or root+fourth (or either +octave) instead of 'full' chords which turn to mush with distortion. A second guitar can harmonize with the first one playing notes with intervals that would sound harsh or muddy if only one guitar was sounding them.

Personally I can't stand bright, fluffy waste of sonic energy music, but different strokes and all. Maybe you find Insect Warfare unlistenable, but I likely find what you prefer unlistenable.

b9
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24 Aug 2017, 11:03 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

b9 wrote:

i am ...blah

That is more inspiring than angsty...lol

ok then. i will say that i must not understand the true meaning of metal. the song you posted was indeed melodically complex and well executed and written, and i would have described it more as like a "rock opera" than "metal"

i liked the song you posted and i played it last night on the piano (3 tracks) (while listening to it on headphones and tuning a metronome to the tempo), and i must admit that while i can play some of the notes on the piano, my rendition is completely lacking emotion or energy. i can also not play as fast as i had to try to play in some bits and i just kind of failed to iterate it well.

so i guess i can explain it in that my favorite instrument is piano, and if piano has no place in a composition, then i do not really click with it.

i always thought "metal" was like "punk".....(oh god here comes another bone of contention i guess), and when i was little i listened to the sid viscious thing "god save the queen" and i hated it.

and all the different varieties of metal are perplexing. there is "death metal" and "whatever" metal and stuff, but in my mind "metal" means harsh clanging metallic sounding stuff.

i am a bit ignorant i guess.

thanks for posting that song. it has educational value for me in that my interpretation of "metal" has been widened.

by the way, if you are interested, this is how i approximated the song on the piano. press stop at the end (if you listen for that long)
https://www.soundclick.com/html5/v3/pla ... 19599&q=hi

b9
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24 Aug 2017, 11:31 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

b9 wrote:

"teedlety dee"

Metal (and other fast, guitar-based music) usually isn't very suitable for playing on keyboards.

i know.

funeralxempire wrote:

Metal typically is more complex than just three chords, but even metal bands/songs that do only rely on very simple riffs often arrange them in far more sophisticated compositions than typical of pop/rock/folk/verse-chorus-verse pablum.

well you see, that is what you get from certain types of musical styles. arrangements to not result in compositions. arrangements are styles of chordal expressions including tempo.
compositions are what is arranged by arrangers.

there really is no accounting for taste.
that is especially true as far as music is concerned.
my mother used to like frank sinatra's type of music. good grief. i tried to show her other types , but she could not see the sense in them. she used to like bing crosby and dean martin stuff. no thanks.

but she must have had some imaginary world that that music transported her to or else she would not have enjoyed it.

same with people who like elvis presley's stuff. i can't listen to him because he has nothing about his voice or music that remotely grabs me.

the beach boys likewise i have no taste for.

but the millions of people who liked it must have been transported somewhere in their minds by it.

funeralxempire wrote:

As for melodic complexity, it very much depends on the subgenre, melodic (anything) metal and power metal tend to have fairly interesting melodies and harmonizing. That said, since certain intervals create odd-sounding harmonics when distortion is added this tends to encourage artists towards using root+fifth or root+fourth (or either +octave) instead of 'full' chords which turn to mush with distortion. A second guitar can harmonize with the first one playing notes with intervals that would sound harsh or muddy if only one guitar was sounding them.

you are trying to sound smart with what you say. i can tell that because what you say is very woolly and vague.
no one can ever be "taught" how to listen to music by verbal instruction.

funeralxempire wrote:

Personally I can't stand bright, fluffy waste of sonic energy music, but different strokes and all. Maybe you find Insect Warfare unlistenable, but I likely find what you prefer unlistenable.

oh well. as you said "different strokes".
if you consider that everything i like to be unlistenable, then you only like what i do not like.

what a coincidence.

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25 Aug 2017, 4:24 pm

b9 wrote:

there really is no accounting for taste.
that is especially true as far as music is concerned.
my mother used to like frank sinatra's type of music. good grief. i tried to show her other types , but she could not see the sense in them. she used to like bing crosby and dean martin stuff. no thanks.

but she must have had some imaginary world that that music transported her to or else she would not have enjoyed it.

same with people who like elvis presley's stuff. i can't listen to him because he has nothing about his voice or music that remotely grabs me.

the beach boys likewise i have no taste for.

but the millions of people who liked it must have been transported somewhere in their minds by it.

There's a reason pop music has wide appeal, even if for others it's unlistenable. Art that appeals to the lowest common denominator will appeal to enough people that it will always be more popular than music that appeals to different sorts of elitists, since the elitists won't agree on what's good even if they mostly agree on what's bad.

b9 wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

you are trying to sound smart with what you say. i can tell that because what you say is very woolly and vague.
no one can ever be "taught" how to listen to music by verbal instruction.

My apologies if I was talking over your head. I make no attempt to 'teach you' or convince you to appreciate it. I'm explaining (in a very generalized way) what makes certain types of arrangements unworkable for distorted guitar. I'm explaining why something happens, not making any attempt to persuade how you feel about the results.

b9 wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Personally I can't stand bright, fluffy waste of sonic energy music, but different strokes and all. Maybe you find Insect Warfare unlistenable, but I likely find what you prefer unlistenable.

oh well. as you said "different strokes".
if you consider that everything i like to be unlistenable, then you only like what i do not like.

what a coincidence.

Shocking, two people who like different things about music like different music. It's almost like we experience the noises differently. :lol:

Sweetleaf
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25 Aug 2017, 11:00 pm

b9 wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

b9 wrote:

i am ...blah

That is more inspiring than angsty...lol

Glad it was mind opening, but yeah metal is a pretty varied genre..that is one reason I like it. I of course enjoy some of the harsher metal with harsh vocals, but I also like melodic guitar and keyboards and some bands even incorporate some of both. I mean one reason I think I like it is because some of the skilled musicians I have heard in metal music are simply impressive...like as a kid I kind of liked classical music, and some metal sounds kind of like that except, played with rock instruments with awesome vocals. I myself certainly lean towards more symphonic/melodic metal and I also really like folk metal...I do like some thrash metal, death metal, and black metal though I certainly even then enjoy the more melodic/symphonic types.

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techstepgenr8tion
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25 Aug 2017, 11:10 pm

I think people, especially in their 20's, can fall for this illusion that maturity = Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, something mid or early Gen X 'cuz that's what adults listen to'. It's more like people just listen to what they grew up with and when you're 40 and still listening to metal occasionally someone in their 20's might think that's the mark of maturity. It's a moving target, which is good news!

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b9
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26 Aug 2017, 11:34 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

b9 wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

b9 wrote:

i am ...blah

That is more inspiring than angsty...lol

anyway, there are so many varieties of metal i found out after looking into it a bit.
read the wikipedia thing on "list of metal genres". good grief.

can you tell the difference between all types of metal (you that is) without being told?

anyway, i played it on the piano but it is too hard for me to fully iterate. it does not sound good.

https://clyp.it/lrfgu214

b9
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27 Aug 2017, 1:29 am

funeralxempire wrote:

b9 wrote:

there really is no accounting for taste.

your description of popular music as being appealing to the lowest common denominator is revealing of your elitist blindness as to what makes music popular.

apart from sexiness of the performer (which is paramount these days), it is because it is understandable and likeable by the majority of people. that is not an easy thing to compose.

popular music appeals to the core musicality that is possessed by everyone.

for example. i will post a "pop" song by billy joel which is not possible to compose except for genius.
here...

lyrics:
Well you went uptown riding in your limousine
With your fine Park Avenue clothes
You had the Dom Perignon in your hand
And the spoon up your nose
And when you wake up in the morning
With your head on fire
And your eyes too bloody to see
Go on and cry in your coffee
But don't come bitchin' to me

Because you had to be a big shot, didn't you
You had to open up your mouth
You had to be a big shot, didn't you
All your friends were so knocked out
You had to have the last word, last night
You know what everything's about
You had to have a white hot spotlight
You had to be a big shot last night

.................

that is genius in my opinion and it was widely popular.
......................

b9 wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

you are trying to sound smart with what you say. i can tell that because what you say is very woolly and vague.
no one can ever be "taught" how to listen to music by verbal instruction.

funeralxempire wrote:

i understand about harmonics and distortion. and for that reason i consider your prattle as vague and woolly. sorry.

b9
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27 Aug 2017, 1:53 am

here is a very low common denominator song which i had heaps of fun playing. i just want to say that popular music is far from stupid (unless it relies on sexy video's to market it (video killed the radio star))

https://clyp.it/mwbt33ej

traven
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27 Aug 2017, 2:28 am

playback & fooling around

traven
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27 Aug 2017, 2:44 am

does humor belong in music?

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