I guess Behemoth is in trouble...

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Sweetleaf
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18 Jan 2018, 3:50 am

funeralxempire wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

Anything that pisses off Nazis is all right by me....

well in this case its more right-winger fundies in Poland it has pissed of not nazis per say.

Further, wouldn't Behemoth's membership be considered to be right-leaning, just a different neighbourhood than the Nationalists they've inflamed? I don't follow them very closely so I might be assuming only on the basis of black metal's general lean towards the right. (And yes, I'm familiar with RABM)

I mean there certainly are Behemoth fans who are more right wing, but not sure that is the majority. Either way they are rather anti-establishment about religion....so I'd figure the only right wingers that would enjoy them are those who aren't fundies and like things like freedom of religion and freedom of expression.

I am pretty far to the left and Behemoth is one of my favorite metal bands.

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Sweetleaf
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18 Jan 2018, 3:54 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

magz wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

magz wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I don't think I've heard anything by Behemoth, but if they're pissing off Nazis and other right wing fanatics, then I might just take a listen.

I think we are having a serious problem here if national symbols become associated with "nazis"...

Whose national symbols? I don't recognize those as symbols of my country.

Behemoth is Polish. The coat of arms of Poland:

The Rzeczpospolita Niewierna design:

This is exactly why they have been charged.

It's similar but not the same thing, I mean sure maybe it offended some peoples sensibilities, but that they could get two years in prison over it is ridiculous?

Of all the stupid things to be sent to prison for!

I just don't get the uproar I mean I have seen numerous shirt/album designs that depict an image similar to a flag or national symbol...don't see what is so bad about it.

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funeralxempire
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18 Jan 2018, 5:03 am

Sweetleaf wrote:

By 'membership' I meant the band members, not the fan base.

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Sweetleaf
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18 Jan 2018, 5:10 am

funeralxempire wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

By 'membership' I meant the band members, not the fan base.

Ah, well I know the vocalist Nergal is a Satanist, can't recall him mentioning any particular political view though, as for the other band members I don't even know. I know they are not fans of the right wing party in Poland....this isn't the first time they have gotten some legal trouble for offending religious/nationalistic sensibilities.

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funeralxempire
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18 Jan 2018, 5:24 am

Sweetleaf wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

By 'membership' I meant the band members, not the fan base.

Ah, fair enough. If they've never expressed any political opinions beyond being anti-censorship and being opposed to the party that's tries to crack down on them for offending their political sensibilities, it's hard to place them anywhere on the political spectrum.

I wouldn't assume they can't be on the right though, Varg Vikernes offends Christian conservatives in Norway, but he's still generally lumped on the right. Not that he's relevant to Behemoth.

Sweetleaf
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18 Jan 2018, 5:39 am

funeralxempire wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

By 'membership' I meant the band members, not the fan base.

Well varg is kind of a piece of s**t, turns out he's a bit of a white supremacist and not really anyone, anyone wants to associate with outside of white supremacists and the few non-white supremacists who can stomach listening to some of his stuff on the basis of him being a rather significant figure in black metal, he doesn't talk about that in the lyrics but he has expressed those veiws outside of that plus he murdered someone to.

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magz
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18 Jan 2018, 5:55 am

TBH "left" and "right" are pretty messed up here.
The leading party is said to be "right" but their views on economy are socialist as hell. But they are <whatever English idiom for being ridiculously serious> about national symbols and the catholic church. So Behemoth is a pain in the ass for them.

The part I don't like most about it is that national symbols are no more joining the nation because some leading party supporters abuse them on "patriotic outfits" that are actually used to express political views. Behemoth is mocking them. But as the "patriotic outfits" wearers support the leading party, their sensibilities are more taken into account than those of others.

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Kraichgauer
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18 Jan 2018, 6:40 am

Sweetleaf wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

magz wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

magz wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I don't think I've heard anything by Behemoth, but if they're pissing off Nazis and other right wing fanatics, then I might just take a listen.

I think we are having a serious problem here if national symbols become associated with "nazis"...

Whose national symbols? I don't recognize those as symbols of my country.

Behemoth is Polish. The coat of arms of Poland:

The Rzeczpospolita Niewierna design:

This is exactly why they have been charged.

It's similar but not the same thing, I mean sure maybe it offended some peoples sensibilities, but that they could get two years in prison over it is ridiculous?

Of all the stupid things to be sent to prison for!

I just don't get the uproar I mean I have seen numerous shirt/album designs that depict an image similar to a flag or national symbol...don't see what is so bad about it.

That's to be expected from nationalists and fascists who deify the state.

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funeralxempire
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18 Jan 2018, 4:09 pm

magz wrote:

They can be right wing nationalists while supporting economic policies that aren't hyper-liberal, deregulated capitalism. That's effectively what the NSDAP and Italian fascists supported, and they're by most definitions the most 'right wing' political parties one can refer to.

Sweetleaf wrote:

I'm just using him as an example of an atypical right winger who manages to offend plenty on the conservative right, to support the idea that if Behemoth's members don't discuss politics in their lyrics or in interviews that their ability to piss off the right in their home country doesn't mean that they must be on the left (not that you claimed or implied that).

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