Do orchestras tend to have too many instruments?

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I've come back to this as I've just run into one of the reasons orchestras are so huge. Specifically, all the duplicate wind instruments: 3 trombones, 4 oboes etc.

I'm trying to teach myself orchestration too. I started arranging one of my piano pieces for a late Haydn-style orchestra, which has two each of flutes, oboes, clarinets, bassoons, horns and trumpets. Within 20 bars, I was desparately in need of a third horn.* I had this gently pulsing horn harmony in my head, but with only 2 horns I couldn't have them play all three notes of the chords. Nothing else blends well enough with them for it to work. I was also fiddling around with getting quiet harmonies in the flutes and clarinets to sound balanced, which would have been easier if a) I could beef up the flute parts with two extra flutes or b) I could just use 4 clarinets and forget about the flutes.

I'll just have to start again with a nice big late-Romantic orchestra. I expected the small orchestra to be easier.
But when we write for orchestra today, we have all these sounds in our heads that date from later than the 18th century. (Like my horn chords, which are so 1860s!) They only work with the huge collection of wind instruments of the Romantic orchestra.

*oo-er, Missus.

A late Nineteenth Century composer, I believe it was Berlioz, thought that modern orchestra was too small. He thought that an orchestra needed at least 800 instruments.

Oh okay.

Well I am coming up with my own little fake orchestra, that is not real but just instruments in a program for a movie project sore.

However, so far I only 14 different types of instruments. I can have more than one of those 14, but should I have more types?

Aren't you the same person who's been asking how you should write your stories?

The size of your orchestra is your choice. It's based on how you want the music to sound. We can't answer these kinds of questions. The whole point of creating stories and music is to create what you want. It's weird that you keep asking us what your artistic creations should be like. That's 100% your decision, not ours.

However,if you want the music to sound a specific way that you chose, and you want to know which instruments or how many instruments you need to create that specific sound, that is something other people can tell you.

I guess that means you can have solos for all kinds of strange instruments, without worrying where the orchestra is going to find people to play them. Duduk? Hammered dulcimer? Contrabass saxophone? Easy! And if you want 12 French horns for just a few seconds, why not? (My aims are different- my ambition is to write a symphony, so I'm sticking to conventional orchestral lineups.)

One helpful book I have gives a common orchestral setup as follows:

3 flutes (one of whom can switch to piccolo instead.)
3 oboes (one switching to cor anglais)
3 clarinets (one switching to bass clarinet)
3 bassoons (one switching to contrabassoon)

4 horns
3 trumpets
2 tenor trombones
Bass trombone
Tuba

Kettledrums (usually 1 player with 2 drums)
Percussionists (usually 2 players, playing triangle, cymbals, bass drum, xylophone etc)
Harp

Violins 1
Violins 2
Violas
Cellos
Double Basses

Oh okay thanks, that's interesting.

When it comes to deciding the instruments, how do you decide which is better to use between brass or strings in some cases? For example, a Tuba and Double Bass both sound good, but how do you pick which one, if you only need one?

Or, a viola and a French horn both sound good, but how do you pick which one, if you only need one?

If you're going for a comic sound ... use a tuba. If you're going for a serious sound use a string bass.

A big funny thing (like a clumsy fat man, or a hippo, on screen) -use a tuba.

If I'm ever rich I'm going to pay someone to follow me around playing tuba. Hopefully it will serve as motivation to lose weight, but if not I'd hope at least that some people find it funny.

Oh okay, but aren't tubas also used for serious music as well, such as in this example?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yly0LYj ... 18C7F2B493

Funny that you mention that. I was just thinking about how I wish I could hire this guy to follow me around, and announce my presence...at work at the inventory counting company...say.

"In a world...where life and death depends ...upon ...counting 2000 candy bars an hour at Seven-Eleven...one man stands alone. Mr. Naturalplastic!"

Just to make every mundane thing I do all day sound like I am... the Terminator!

Last edited by naturalplastic on 05 Oct 2020, 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I am not giving you any more advice unless you promise to give me a cut of the royalties from this movie that your scoring!

or sousaphone

Yes. Named for John Phillip Sousa. It's the portable marching band equivalent of the tuba.

And yes...there is something comical about the sound in that scene.

Is it the KKK that is choosing to you use that comedic sounding instrument? Wouldn't they want a more serious sounding instrument to punctuate their point?

https://www.colorlines.com/articles/vid ... ity-ensues

Oh okay, so it was just someone following them.