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07 Dec 2007, 12:10 pm

I think there are two types of mathematical art (That I can think of, maybe more exist?).
Visual - Beautiful images generated by mathematical systems, algorithms etc
Mental - A proof or construction can give ideas which produce something that can only exist inside the imagination



2ukenkerl
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07 Dec 2007, 12:20 pm

hyperbolic,

You are living up to first impressions.

Perhaps some people that are adept at math figure it so simple that. to use Angelus-Mortis's term, they consider others to be "not much more than morons". Angelus-Mortis WAS admittedly diplomatic in allowing some others to escape that moniker.

Math is far from magic, and nobody claimed it to be. It IS in fact, at least at the simplest level, something that makes science less of an art. By doing so, it makes it appear LESS like magic.

BTW There IS a difference between not being good, and not being able to comprehend. It is ironic that you accuse people like Angelus-Mortis of being "almost pompous", and you have outdone any image that can convey!



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07 Dec 2007, 2:33 pm

I liked math fine until I got past fractions. After that, it's like you're speaking another language to me, and I suddenly understand how it is to be a low functioning autistic.

And that's not by choice or lack of interest. It just is. I can handle mathematic concepts just fine, and the logic that is involved in math, but if it is in regular math form, something in my brain just doesn't connect. I think that it's like whatever is the way that makes sense to 99.9% of the population is NOT the way that makes sense to me. So I have to go the hard way to get the same answer that everyone figures out via an easier pathway.

To my credit, I've made it through music related physics and Calculus, but I had to fight every step of the way to make it through. I also took Finite Math in undergrad, and slept through it. It was all logic statements. It was great. Made perfect sense to me. A lot of the other math geeks in the class didn't understand it at all either. It was a magical moment.


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marshall
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07 Dec 2007, 3:17 pm

Angelus-Mortis wrote:
It may seem like magic to some people, but that's not the true essence of math. If you would continue to call math magic, then it means you either don't understand it, have no desire to understand it, and possibly fail to see what makes math so beautiful. But not everyone pursues math, and ignorance of it doesn't make life any less interesting. That's all relative to what you find interesting.


Maybe magic isn't the right term but I find it mysterious, in a good way. If all mathematics was intuitively obvious it would be trivial and boring. The fact that higher level math is hard is what makes it interesting.

I can definitely understand why many people don't like math though. It can be extremely frustrating and draining when you are being graded on it. Often it's like a switch, you either understand something or you don't. I often spend hours and hours just thinking about some mathematical concept until I'm satisfied that I understand it. I realize most people don't have the patience for that because they have more of a life than me. :lol:

I like to learn math on my own for fun but I gave up on taking math classes because it's just way too much for me to handle. I don't have as much patience as I used to.



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07 Dec 2007, 3:49 pm

I'm horrible at arithmetics, but I love the idea of theoretical mathematics and I love the feel it gives to see how mathematical ideas and concepts just solve all right and perfectly smooth.

In my opinion it's the worst thing ever the mathematics is for most people all about numbers and arithmetic. This made my maths classes from day 1 in school the most horrible thing ever.

I wish my friends and teachers would get that I do think mathematics is amazing and that I just can't work right with numbers, which makes the whole experience hopelessly frustrating.

I although thought I was nuts (at maths) until I, the arithmetical-idiot, solved a complex theoretical exercise whereas I fail at doing so-called simple arithmetic five minutes later.



hyperbolic
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07 Dec 2007, 10:24 pm

2ukenkerl wrote:
hyperbolic,

You are living up to first impressions.

Perhaps some people that are adept at math figure it so simple that. to use Angelus-Mortis's term, they consider others to be "not much more than morons". Angelus-Mortis WAS admittedly diplomatic in allowing some others to escape that moniker.

Math is far from magic, and nobody claimed it to be. It IS in fact, at least at the simplest level, something that makes science less of an art. By doing so, it makes it appear LESS like magic.

BTW There IS a difference between not being good, and not being able to comprehend. It is ironic that you accuse people like Angelus-Mortis of being "almost pompous", and you have outdone any image that can convey!


Quote:
BTW There IS a difference between not being good, and not being able to comprehend. It is ironic that you accuse people like Angelus-Mortis of being "almost pompous", and you have outdone any image that can convey!


What is ironic about me pointing out my impressions? I can think of all of my math teachers in high school (except for one), including one who one day let lose a small, baffling tirade against me and my mother, a couple of my math professors in college, and various friends and people in class and out who have been, in my opinion, slightly pompous about their mathematical abilities. There are SOME who are good at math who have definitely not been pompous about it, such as the free tutors at my college who have helped me a lot. I was only pointing out a trend I noticed that included Angelus-Mortis up until, of course, she decided to break that trend.

Quote:
Math is far from magic, and nobody claimed it to be. It IS in fact, at least at the simplest level, something that makes science less of an art. By doing so, it makes it appear LESS like magic.


Nobody is claiming that math is magic. I was saying that math seems like magic to those who do not understand it because for them math is like magic in that the answers are a mystery. They don't know the secret to the trick.

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BTW There IS a difference between not being good, and not being able to comprehend.


I definitely agree with you--some people are just good at math and can comprehend it. Others can comprehend it but are not so good. Math is an certainly an interesting subject when you look at its history and some of the key concepts, such as the the area under a curve (integral calculus) or the Pythagorean theorem.



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12 Dec 2007, 8:21 pm

Basic math has almost no beauty to it; this is why I consider more advanced math as purity.

Beyond the beauty and purity of numbers, I found it confusing when I quarrel over the solution to an advanced math problem.



Angelus-Mortis
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13 Dec 2007, 6:57 pm

marshall wrote:
Angelus-Mortis wrote:
It may seem like magic to some people, but that's not the true essence of math. If you would continue to call math magic, then it means you either don't understand it, have no desire to understand it, and possibly fail to see what makes math so beautiful. But not everyone pursues math, and ignorance of it doesn't make life any less interesting. That's all relative to what you find interesting.


Maybe magic isn't the right term but I find it mysterious, in a good way. If all mathematics was intuitively obvious it would be trivial and boring. The fact that higher level math is hard is what makes it interesting.


That is what's so interesting about it. Though it's not the beauty of the "magic" from being posed with a challenging problem that makes it beautiful; it's the process of finding a solution and acknowledging that it might not be the only solution. In other words, knowing why it works, not knowing the solution itself.

Quote:
I can definitely understand why many people don't like math though. It can be extremely frustrating and draining when you are being graded on it. Often it's like a switch, you either understand something or you don't. I often spend hours and hours just thinking about some mathematical concept until I'm satisfied that I understand it. I realize most people don't have the patience for that because they have more of a life than me. :lol:


I normally enjoy taking tests and exams in math more than I think I would. Though it's not for being graded on it, it's for the challenge of doing interesting problems. Which is why I try not to worry too much about how I"m going to be graded on my presentation of the solution.

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I like to learn math on my own for fun but I gave up on taking math classes because it's just way too much for me to handle. I don't have as much patience as I used to.


That's actually another thing about math though. It does require some patience to understand, even if you're simply reusing stuff you've already learned. When you understand how it works though, you'll learn to appreciate the beauty of a tool in mathematics even more than you did when you might have believed it to be trivial or simple.


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marshall
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13 Dec 2007, 10:48 pm

Angelus-Mortis wrote:
marshall wrote:

Maybe magic isn't the right term but I find it mysterious, in a good way. If all mathematics was intuitively obvious it would be trivial and boring. The fact that higher level math is hard is what makes it interesting.


That is what's so interesting about it. Though it's not the beauty of the "magic" from being posed with a challenging problem that makes it beautiful; it's the process of finding a solution and acknowledging that it might not be the only solution. In other words, knowing why it works, not knowing the solution itself.


I agree. But it isn’t even always about solving problems. With topics such as topology, the process of finding precise definitions that agree with intuitive notions is interesting in itself. Often it turns out there are multiple definitions that seem to support the same intuitive notion, yet on closer inspection there are subtle differences. One example of this is the various definitions for the “dimension” of an object. Some definitions, such as Hausdorff dimension allow for fractional dimensions while others, such as topological dimension, only allow integer dimensions.

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Quote:
I like to learn math on my own for fun but I gave up on taking math classes because it's just way too much for me to handle. I don't have as much patience as I used to.


That's actually another thing about math though. It does require some patience to understand, even if you're simply reusing stuff you've already learned. When you understand how it works though, you'll learn to appreciate the beauty of a tool in mathematics even more than you did when you might have believed it to be trivial or simple.


My problem is that I can’t multitask. If I take a higher level math class it ends up taking all my time at the expense of other things. I'm in a science program, not a math program.

I think the reason I take so much time is that I do way more work than the average student. I always have to do the proofs “left up to the reader” and such, even if they aren’t assigned. I can’t stand having little details left out of the logic and being forced to “accept” certain theorems without seeing a complete proof. I’m really anal retentive about it.



Angelus-Mortis
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15 Dec 2007, 12:24 pm

Well, that kind of mentality might help you succeed if you were to major in mathematics. Few people ever are that obsessed with such details.


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diver3000
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16 Dec 2007, 6:52 pm

just saw that topic and the first thing that came into my mind was the "demoscene" -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demoscene

It's more "coding art", fractales, plasma, etc...



Samarda
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27 Oct 2011, 6:12 pm

Look up Jason Padgett , he's an notable savant who works in Mathematical Art.
He does it all by hand with a pencil and ruler!



Abgal64
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28 Oct 2011, 3:59 pm

I love mathematical and abstract art, especially when it has a crisp, clean yet elegant feel to it. I here are some types of mathematical art that I particularly enjoy: this, Islamic interlace patterns, Teotihucano thin orange ware, Inka strip patterns, Tiwanaku architecture, Hawaiian kapa cloth, Indigenous Californian basketry, Western hard-edged painting, Tshokwe sona sand drawings and contemporary and African fractal art.

In my own paintings, I use tessellations, fractals, geometric figures and ratios extensively; even when I paint representationally, the background is usually decorated with mathematical and abstract art. I am also teaching myself how to do kirigami and it is very calming.


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Abgal64
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31 Oct 2011, 7:17 pm

Samarda wrote:
Look up Jason Padgett , he's an notable savant who works in Mathematical Art.
He does it all by hand with a pencil and ruler!
Indeed he is a magnificent artist; his work is superb!


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