Wuthering Heights Reading Group

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OMG, I haven't read Manfred in 20 years, but I remember it really catching my imagination! Can't wait to reread it with HC in mind.

Does anyone in our group believe Catherine and Heathcliff had a physical or sexual relationship, or is the appeal of their relationship that it seems to be entirely spiritual in form?

Also, hmmm.... next reading group led by Redxk, for Manfred?
I read a biography of the Shelleys this summer and would be game for Byron next!

I feel that the bitterness Heathcliff feels argues for more of a sexual than a spiritual relationship. Heathcliff feels bereft of love. If the relationship were spiritual, I believe Heathcliff would feel glory in being Catherine's mate, even though they are in different "dimensions."

Nelly would be indignant if she'd missed spying on something so carnal! lol.
Let me think on that ... it's an interesting point.

Here I go again - Kindle - Byron - Manfred - $0.99
Last year I couldn't even have bought that. And now,
the big wrench - put it aside.

Please tell me again about Vols.I & II. I don't have these indicated but I certainly feel them. I think. There's the WH that I know so well and then the "2nd generation" - Heathcliff Sr. and Jr. living together etc. Was this the original publication? Or was there an outcry for 'More'? Forgive my ignorance but without Catherine Sr., it's another book altogether.

Why? No intense agony and surprise and anticipation and breathless reading so long as I'm awake, as many times as I've read it.

What chapter starts Vol.II?

I'll go check. Give me 2 mins, Clara. I think it's 15.

Yes, Chapter 14 is the last chapter in Volume I. Volume II begins with "Another week over - "

The first, 1847 editions of WH were published in two volumes along with Agnes Grey (by Anne), because it was customary for books to be sold in three volume sets. The publisher Thomas Newby and Sons did not make the corrections Emily had identified in her fair copy (revised manuscript), and several orthographic errors were printed in the publication. In 1850, after Emily's death, the second edition of WH was released. Charlotte corrected many errors (generally, of punctuation) and she combined short paragraphs into longer paragraphs with fewer exclamation marks and less challenging dialect by Joseph. She also reformatted the book to one volume, which was more common at that time. If you are reading an edition with only one volume, you know it's the 1850 version which was edited by Charlotte Brontë (along with her famous Preface, which called Emily a misguided mystic).

Post: with more deeply thematic questions, no answers and no spoilers

Ellen Dean (Nelly): Discuss her role as the primary albeit unreliable narrator of WH.

I have to remind myself she is like a sibling to Catherine, Hindley and Heathcliff. She was raised alongside them at essentially the same age. In that sense, two boys and two girls were raised at WH. Two are biological children to the Earnshaws and two are adopted, with mysterious lineage. Again, there is dualism of nature (biological children) vs. nurture (adopted children). Does Nelly's passive-aggressive behaviour toward her quasi-sister Catherine lead to Catherine's ultimate destruction? How does it contrast with Hindley's active, more overt and physical hatred of Heathcliff? Is Nelly self-interested by nature, or does she consciously manipulate the plot in support of any one person? Which person? I've read that she was in love with someone. Who would that be?

I need to find the quote, but early in the novel Nelly implies to Lockwood that she may indeed be a Linton by lineage, and that her mother was forced to work for the Earnshaws when widowed or otherwise disgraced. The statement is something like "...for us. I mean, the Lintons". Does she just identify with the Lintons because she worked for Edgar at TG, or is there more to the story? Who is this woman and what is her vested interest in destroying Catherine?

Chapter 14: SPOILER

"Existence after losing her would be hell".

"If he loved her with all the power of his puny being, he couldn't love as much in eighty years, as I could in a day. And, Catherine has a heart as deep as I have; the sea could be as readily contained in that horse-trough, as her whole affection be monopolised by him - Tush! He is scarcely a degree dearer to her than her dog, or her horse - It is not in him to be loved as she loves me, how can she love in him what he has not?"


Heathcliff makes these proclamations to his wife Isabella, regarding Catherine's marriage to Edgar Linton!

Later, he calls Isabella a slut and a slattern.

Um.... Can you even imagine hearing this rant from your spouse during your honeymoon?

I don't think Isabella's emotional abuse is cited often enough, in contrast to the psychosexual violence she endures.
I wish Nelly had removed her from The Heights, but it's her fault that Isabella is there in the first place.

This chapter is so dark and twisty I can't bear it.

Spoiler about chapter 13-
That chapter really was so disturbing with how it revealed Heathcliff's true nature. I was naive enough to think that he would at least treat her civilly. Or that he would at least be a little flattered since someone admired him. Isabella never mistreated him since the beginning of the story, there was absolutely no reason to resent her for anything. Thinking of her life in Wuthering Heights is really scary, especially considering that she had a child too.

"Now, was it not the depth of absurdity - of genuine idiocy, for that pitiful, slavish, mean-minded brach to dream that I could love her? Tell your master, Nelly, that I never, in all my life, met with such an abject thing as she is - She even disgraces the name of Linton... I have no pity! The more the worms writhe, the more I yearn to crush out their entrails! It is a moral teething, and I grind with greater energy in proportion to the increase of pain".


It's extremely hard for me to read these passages. He is a gaslighting psychopath with illusions of grandeur, incapable of empathy, reason or remorse. Isabella's confinement makes me physically ill.

Yes, i was shocked by that passage as well, it's such an unfounded cruelty. There's no reason to despise her, but it's like he doesn't have the emotional capacity to not despise anything or anyone that isn't Cathy.

Heathcliff is deluded; he doesn't seem aware of his hypocrisy or projection. He chose to marry Isabella to orchestrate this charade, but he fails to admit his pleasure at the gain. The writhing worm is truly himself, because he cannot own the riches of Thrushcross Grange which he so desires, in retaliation against Edgar and Hindley. Isabella and Catherine are both stepping stones in his psychopathic game of revenge.

Again, spoiler-y post for the whole of the book!

Yes, his plan of revenge definitely comes from an inferiority complex. I admit that i didn't think he would plan everything so carefully and hurt so many people.He had many chances to stop what he's doing but he chose the wrong path every time, i don't think he deserves redemption even by the end of the book. Also, while i wasn't a big fan of Catherine Earnshaw, her daughter turned out to be my fav character. I was relieved that she and Hareton were able to break the chain of abuse in the end.