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Sick of female character "desexualisation" rant

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Fnord
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03 Feb 2022, 4:14 pm

Nobody seems to have ever heard of ecchi or hentai . . . remember Internet Rule #34 . . .



theprisoner
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03 Feb 2022, 4:18 pm

This thread might be getting dangerously close to being moved to adult section...


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Fnord
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03 Feb 2022, 4:28 pm

theprisoner wrote:
This thread might be getting dangerously close to being moved to adult section...
Do you see a problem with that?



cyberdad
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03 Feb 2022, 4:35 pm

The original artwork posted by the OP is pretty tame.



theprisoner
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03 Feb 2022, 4:42 pm

Fnord wrote:
theprisoner wrote:
This thread might be getting dangerously close to being moved to adult section...
Do you see a problem with that?


No, what I see is; ecchi hentai, all thanks to you Fnord. 8O
cyberdad wrote:
The original artwork posted by the OP is pretty tame.


Yeah, this thread was pretty respectable, before Ford arrived and started showing off his Japenese fetish. Never took you for a hentai guy, Fnord. :P

:twisted: Can't deny it, It's good though...


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Fnord
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03 Feb 2022, 4:49 pm

theprisoner wrote:
Yeah, this thread was pretty respectable, before Ford arrived and started showing off his Japanese fetish. Never took you for a hentai guy, Fnord.
I have no fetish for the Japanese.

I once did a search for "Mature Anime" to get away from all those "Big Eyes, Small Mouth" tropes of which children are so fond.  Clicking on a link showed me exactly what Google considers "Mature Anime" . . . cartoons featuring impossibly proportioned women performing impossibly acrobatic sex.

None of those anime characters seem to have any particularly Asian appearance, anyway.



theprisoner
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03 Feb 2022, 5:10 pm

Fnord wrote:
None of those anime characters seem to have any particularly Asian appearance, anyway.[/color]


Well, Anime, is Japanese. That's the style.It comes out of Japan.
SO it's Asian.In my mind. Even thought the characters depicted are often very westernized.
For. e.g. Blonde or even Redhead. A decidedly non Asian trait.
For e.g. Misty in Pokemon. :heart: How cute. Loved that show as a kid.
Image


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Fnord
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03 Feb 2022, 5:11 pm

theprisoner wrote:
Fnord wrote:
None of those anime characters seem to have any particularly Asian appearance, anyway.[/color]
. . .
Image
Neither of those characters look Japanese.



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03 Feb 2022, 7:03 pm

Fnord wrote:
theprisoner wrote:
Fnord wrote:
None of those anime characters seem to have any particularly Asian appearance, anyway.[/color]
. . .
Image
Neither of those characters look Japanese.


They hardly look human in the first place. At least I've never seen a person with a tiny thorn for a nose, a pink triangle for a mouth and great big eyes that are, like, taller than they are wide. Not to mention eyebrows than are seen through the hair that covers them. Some non-euclidean wizardry right there.



Fnord
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03 Feb 2022, 8:29 pm

That is what I mean — those are the kinds of trope-laden stories kids like. I want something more . . . novelistic? Something that is not “cute” and childish.



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03 Feb 2022, 8:29 pm

Fnord wrote:
theprisoner wrote:
Fnord wrote:
None of those anime characters seem to have any particularly Asian appearance, anyway.[/color]
. . .
Image
Neither of those characters look Japanese.


Neither do 99% of Japanese anime. Only reinforces my earlier point about the prism the Chinese artists sees contemporary Chinese culture depicting "Chinese" who look strangely caucasian :lol:



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03 Feb 2022, 8:30 pm

Kerch wrote:
They hardly look human in the first place. At least I've never seen a person with a tiny thorn for a nose, a pink triangle for a mouth and great big eyes that are, like, taller than they are wide. Not to mention eyebrows than are seen through the hair that covers them. Some non-euclidean wizardry right there.


This is a false flag. Everyone knows anime characters look European even if the facial/body dimensions are not comparative.



1986
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03 Feb 2022, 8:42 pm

Quote:
Everyone knows anime characters look European even if the facial/body dimensions are not comparative.

The origin of big eyes in anime/manga lies in Osamu Tezuka, who took it from Disney's Bambi. He enlarged the eyes because it allowed him to paint a greater range and clarity of emotions through them. The "anime people look Western" is a popular misunderstanding in Western countries because art in the West is usually about representation whereas the purpose of anime and manga in Japanese society is to provide a fantasy world to which people can escape their demanding, conformist everyday lives. A kind of escapism. Thus it is not about "representing Japanese people" but about escaping to a world the common Japanese person cannot reach. To some extent, romanticised versions of life in the West fit this bill. But so do giant mecha space robots too.

Almost all women in Tokyo colour their hair too, sometimes in rainbow colors. The same in Korea.



cyberdad
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03 Feb 2022, 9:00 pm

1986 wrote:
Quote:
Everyone knows anime characters look European even if the facial/body dimensions are not comparative.

The origin of big eyes in anime/manga lies in Osamu Tezuka, who took it from Disney's Bambi. He enlarged the eyes because it allowed him to paint a greater range and clarity of emotions through them. The "anime people look Western" is a popular misunderstanding in Western countries because art in the West is usually about representation whereas the purpose of anime and manga in Japanese society is to provide a fantasy world to which people can escape their demanding, conformist everyday lives. A kind of escapism.


I can't speak for Osamu Tezuka but you are right about the animation providing a fantasy/escape

However, I completely disagree with your premise. Following WWII Asian media (cinema/culture) was heavily influenced by western media/film/fashion/cinema. Objectification theory states that media images provide the basis for men and women to objectify what they see which are largely beautiful caucasian faces/bodies. I am 100% certain this fed into Japanese/Chinese fantasies of what is beautiful.

But the proof of the pudding is in the incidence of eating disorders. Eating disorders are explained through objectification theory where girls see themselves in media images. Interestingly almost 99% of eating disorders are white and east Asian girls. In addition there is an obsession with skin lightning in east Asia. This has been attributed to cultural class systems where the wealthy are indoors but this is just a platform. Again the proof is that in Japan mixed race people are preferred as catwalk models if they have European ancestry. Any "touch" of the tar brush is disliked by east Asians.

I honestly think east Asians are too proud/embarrassed to admit to having white fever.



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03 Feb 2022, 9:27 pm

cyberdad wrote:
1986 wrote:
Quote:
Everyone knows anime characters look European even if the facial/body dimensions are not comparative.

The origin of big eyes in anime/manga lies in Osamu Tezuka, who took it from Disney's Bambi. He enlarged the eyes because it allowed him to paint a greater range and clarity of emotions through them. The "anime people look Western" is a popular misunderstanding in Western countries because art in the West is usually about representation whereas the purpose of anime and manga in Japanese society is to provide a fantasy world to which people can escape their demanding, conformist everyday lives. A kind of escapism.


I can't speak for Osamu Tezuka but you are right about the animation providing a fantasy/escape

However, I completely disagree with your premise. Following WWII Asian media (cinema/culture) was heavily influenced by western media/film/fashion/cinema. Objectification theory states that media images provide the basis for men and women to objectify what they see which are largely beautiful caucasian faces/bodies. I am 100% certain this fed into Japanese/Chinese fantasies of what is beautiful.

But the proof of the pudding is in the incidence of eating disorders. Eating disorders are explained through objectification theory where girls see themselves in media images. Interestingly almost 99% of eating disorders are white and east Asian girls. In addition there is an obsession with skin lightning in east Asia. This has been attributed to cultural class systems where the wealthy are indoors but this is just a platform. Again the proof is that in Japan mixed race people are preferred as catwalk models if they have European ancestry. Any "touch" of the tar brush is disliked by east Asians.

I honestly think east Asians are too proud/embarrassed to admit to having white fever.


I have heard that anime was influenced by Disney style cartoons before particularly for the big eyes to, as well as being influenced by western media/film/fashion/cinema after WWII. So perhaps both are true to some extent.


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cyberdad
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03 Feb 2022, 9:47 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
1986 wrote:
Quote:
Everyone knows anime characters look European even if the facial/body dimensions are not comparative.

The origin of big eyes in anime/manga lies in Osamu Tezuka, who took it from Disney's Bambi. He enlarged the eyes because it allowed him to paint a greater range and clarity of emotions through them. The "anime people look Western" is a popular misunderstanding in Western countries because art in the West is usually about representation whereas the purpose of anime and manga in Japanese society is to provide a fantasy world to which people can escape their demanding, conformist everyday lives. A kind of escapism.


I can't speak for Osamu Tezuka but you are right about the animation providing a fantasy/escape

However, I completely disagree with your premise. Following WWII Asian media (cinema/culture) was heavily influenced by western media/film/fashion/cinema. Objectification theory states that media images provide the basis for men and women to objectify what they see which are largely beautiful caucasian faces/bodies. I am 100% certain this fed into Japanese/Chinese fantasies of what is beautiful.

But the proof of the pudding is in the incidence of eating disorders. Eating disorders are explained through objectification theory where girls see themselves in media images. Interestingly almost 99% of eating disorders are white and east Asian girls. In addition there is an obsession with skin lightning in east Asia. This has been attributed to cultural class systems where the wealthy are indoors but this is just a platform. Again the proof is that in Japan mixed race people are preferred as catwalk models if they have European ancestry. Any "touch" of the tar brush is disliked by east Asians.

I honestly think east Asians are too proud/embarrassed to admit to having white fever.


I have heard that anime was influenced by Disney style cartoons before particularly for the big eyes to, as well as being influenced by western media/film/fashion/cinema after WWII. So perhaps both are true to some extent.


I think both contributed to how modern Manga/anime is stylised/created.

I was watching a documentary on the fashion industry in China where there is a massive growth in popularity of Russian girls as catwalk models. recruiters go into Russia and scout girls because Chinese market want to see western women in clothing/fashion lines. In Japan there is equal demand for not just fashion catwalks but also for European bar girls made up of female expat English teachers moonlighting as well Russian women looking for work as geishas/bar girls.

In India it's worse where now Bollywood movie producers mostly recruits European women as background dancers and in cricket cheerleaders because that's what Indian men want to see.