do you like heavy metal music?

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Sweetleaf
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01 Mar 2012, 2:58 pm

RushKing wrote:

SanityTheorist wrote:

That being said death metal (although I enjoy dark tranquillity and In Flames) is crap. So is black metal, etc. I really think they need at least occasional clean vocals and distinguishable lyrics at least 90% of the time.

Why do the lyrics need to be distinguishable 90% of the time if you can look them up?

That is easier with death metal, because with black metal a lot of the bands don't have lyrics posted on line and if you buy a black metal album there is a good chance the lyrics will be written in viking runes or a nordic language. But I find it more satisfying to focus on the atmosphere/mood the music creates and the sorts of feelings/pain/emotions being experessed rather then what the lyrics specifically say.

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VictoriaR
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26 Mar 2012, 5:48 pm

It is one of my favorite music genres.

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27 Mar 2012, 7:02 pm

Yes, I love metal, but as other people have suggested I'm not really a fan of death metal or black metal with their unintelligible lyrics.

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abacacus
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27 Mar 2012, 8:07 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

Deathcore and screamo are not even metal for one....and though Death Metal is not my favorite I hardly think it's crap, though I might agree most death metal bands are crap the genre itself isn't though because I've heard good death metal. As for Black Metal it is one of my favorite kinds of metal especially depressive black metal so I fail to see how it's crap.

Deathcore aint metal is it? And who appointed you to be the almighty decider eh?

Care to explain what's not metal about it? And don't even start about breakdowns. Invented by Cannibal Corpse, Suffocation, Dying Fetus, etc.

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Sweetleaf
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27 Mar 2012, 8:34 pm

abacacus wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

Well think about this death metal and deathcore aren't the same genre....ones metal, ones death metal influenced hardcore. Those are death metal bands not deathcore. I am rather obsessed with metal so I've done lots of research on the various genres, and why metalcore and deathcore are not types of metal just influenced by it.......basically that would be like calling thrash metal punk, and calling punk thrash metal.

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abacacus
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27 Mar 2012, 9:21 pm

Death metal and death core are different. So are death metal and black metal. Both are still metal.

Deathcore would be MUCH more accurately described as hardcore influenced death metal. The hardcore elements tend to be much slimmer than the death metal elements (death growls, high as all hell tempo, blasts, double kick, heavily distorted and downtuned guitars, etc). Hardcore is a punk genre, and you won't find very much punk in deathcore unless you want to go in to skank beats, which are also heavily used in both death metal, thrash metal, black metal... I think you get the point.

Also, if you want to go in to genres defined by what was the basis of what, death metal isn't metal either. It's classical with rock elements thrown in and the tempo cranked to eleven. Even the vocals began WAY before metal music was around, with religious monks and traditional music styles.

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Sweetleaf
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28 Mar 2012, 1:18 am

abacacus wrote:

From my understanding its more like death metal influenced hardcore....as they say if it has core in it than its probably not metal, yes hardcore is a style of punk and deathcore is not the exact same as hardcore punk but its more influenced by metal rather then it being metal influenced by hardcore. Things like metalcore is the result of mixing metal and hardcore. But yeah thrash metal is punk influenced metal.......metalcore is metal influenced hardcore, though I cannot say it sounds much like actual hardcore as I don't really listen to that.

Not that its that big of a deal, I just am quite into metal and kind of adament about (insert term)core is just that, not metal as metal genres end with the word metal......death metal, black metal, folk metal, thrash metal, heavy metal, goth metal, doom metal, glam/hair metal ect. and there is quite a range of variation between those. then with the metal influenced hardcore type stuff you have things like deathcore, metalcore, grindcore and probably others I'm not into any of that as deathcore and grindcore sound like how i imagine it sounds if you try and grind up rocks in a blender if you ask me but to each their own.

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abacacus
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28 Mar 2012, 2:15 am

Go tell a bunch of metalheads at a grindcore show their music isn't metal, see how long it takes them to throw you off of something :lol:

The origins of metalcore and deathcore were indeed much more punk, and early metalcore is indeed much more punk than metal. But, give the song Devolver by Whitechapel a listen and tell me what punk you see in there. Metal all the way, baby.

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Sweetleaf
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28 Mar 2012, 2:23 am

abacacus wrote:

Go tell a bunch of metalheads at a grindcore show their music isn't metal, see how long it takes them to throw you off of something :lol:

The origins of metalcore and deathcore were indeed much more punk, and early metalcore is indeed much more punk than metal. But, give the song Devolver by Whitechapel a listen and tell me what punk you see in there. Metal all the way, baby.

I disagree with whitechapel being metal, unless they've changed some since I heard them because they sounded like metalcore to me...I admit it was a long time ago. But I am a freaking metalhead and most other metalheads I know or have talked to do not consider metalcore or deathcore metal genres. I mean I like death metal, well good death metal...........can't stand deathcore though.

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abacacus
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28 Mar 2012, 2:25 am

A lot of people think that black people are inferior to white people too, doesn't make it so.

Also, if you can't hear the difference Whitechapel (deathcore) and metalcore (which is more along the lines of Parkway Drive or All That Remains) you must have some hearing damage or something :lol:
HUGE difference in sound.

Edit:
Here's the song I mentioned, Devolver.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScSSfOca8b0[/youtube]

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Sweetleaf
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28 Mar 2012, 2:30 am

abacacus wrote:

HUGE difference in sound.

Where did I say anything about superiority, I just don't like deathcore...but that's not why I don't think its metal, and I really don't care if people like it or not its just not something I like to subject my ears to.

Also I don't enjoy deathcore or metalcore, so of course I am not an expert on telling them apart as I don't typically spend much time listening to music I don't enjoy. I still know if I am hearing metal or something of the core nature. But yeah how are Parkway Drive or All That Remains Metal? metalcore and metal just aren't the same genre. But I can always agree to disagree with no hard feelings after all it's just music classifications.

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Sweetleaf
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28 Mar 2012, 2:33 am

and against my better judgement, I will listen to that tomorrow.....I want to save it for a time when I am not headed to bed, If I listen to it now I might never wake up in the morning as it could get stuck in my head as I sleep and make my head explode. :twisted: ...but maybe I will like it who knows.

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abacacus
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28 Mar 2012, 2:40 am

It's a very ticky subject with me what with being in a deathcore band. I've received enough metric tonnes of s**t from metalheads at shows to instantly go on the offensive whenever people start talking about" core isn't metal". It's disrespectful in the extreme to the musicians and what they create.

The whole black people mini rant wasn't about superiority, just about how peoples thoughts are not necessarily fact.

Parkway Drive and ATR are metal by their use of:
Screamed/growled vocals
High tempos
Blasts and double bass in their music
Distorted and often down tuned guitars

All of which are also major hallmarks of death metal, some of which are staples of thrash, black metal, progressive metal (think Symphony X), power metal, folk metal, doom/drone metal, the list goes on.

None of them are the same, just similar. They all fit under the umbrella of extreme metal, which in turn is a subgenre of metal, which is a subgenre of rock, etc.

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Sweetleaf
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28 Mar 2012, 2:53 am

abacacus wrote:

It's a very ticky subject with me what with being in a deathcore band. I've received enough metric tonnes of sh** from metalheads at shows to instantly go on the offensive whenever people start talking about" core isn't metal". It's disrespectful in the extreme to the musicians and what they create.

Why is it disrespectful to not see deathcore as a form of metal?...and I can't help it if I don't like the music deathcore bands play.

The whole black people mini rant wasn't about superiority, just about how peoples thoughts are not necessarily fact.

Parkway Drive and ATR are metal by their use of:
Screamed/growled vocals
High tempos
Blasts and double bass in their music
Distorted and often down tuned guitar

All of which are also major hallmarks of death metal, some of which are staples of thrash, black metal, progressive metal (think Symphony X), power metal, folk metal, doom/drone metal, the list goes on.

None of them are the same, just similar. They all fit under the umbrella of extreme metal, which in turn is a subgenre of metal, which is a subgenre of rock, etc.

Last I checked those aren't all requirements for metal maybe death metal also though the way the bands you mentioned scream/growl the vocals sounds quite different then what I hear in black metal and death metal...But yeah metal is not the only genre that can have those features.....and not all of them are even required for metal the only one that really is, is distorted and often down tuned guitars.

So deathcore and death metal share some features...that would make since considering death metal is an influence in deathcore. Kind of like Punk and thrash metal have some simularities because thrash metal is the oldschool sound of metal mixed with the quicker tempo and attitude of punk more or less. At least that is the impression I've gotten from books and documentaries about metal. So yeah music influences music...even music from another genre. I mean blues influenced metal but obviously blues and metal are far from the same thing.

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abacacus
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28 Mar 2012, 3:06 am

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Sweetleaf
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28 Mar 2012, 3:19 am

abacacus wrote:

It's not disrespectful that you don't like it, it's disrespectful when you say it isn't metal because you're essentially saying "Yeah, you guys wrote it and put a lot in to it but I know more about than you do." It's like if someone came up to you and said weed caused your arms to fall off. It's utter bull.

So metal is the only genre that's good? I mean my favorite band is Pink Floyd and they certainly aren't metal...I like them just the same though.

They sound different due to different techniques being used and different processing. Screams and growls come in many different forms, everything from Mongolian throat singing down to Glen Bentons animalistic grunts are screams/growls. Now if I took one of Bentons grunts, duplicated it, and processed them differently they'd sound very different. I could make one sound like it just came out of a Deicide song, and the other sound like Phil from Whitechapel. EQ makes a big difference.

Sounds an aweful like its not too ridiculous to say...deathcore is more of a combination of death metal and hardcore, rather then a genre of metal I mean there is death metal so why would there be another genre of metal with death in it? But musically its the two combined.

Metal is not the only genre to have those features, but can you name two more? Blasts are *very* rare outside of metal (even in jazz, which is where the blast beat was invented), as is double kick over 160 or so let alone the insanity some people crank out like 270 BPM. As far as screams not being essential to metal, that entirely depends on which kind of metal. Power metal, no not really. Death metal? Oh yes. Find me a death metal band with cleans as lead vocals.

Death metal is not the only kind of metal....black metal has that, and no I don't know of any non metal genres with blasts specifically but I am pretty sure double bass shows up in more than metal. Also I know of a Death/Doom Metal band like that called Novembers Doom, they have growling vocals and clean vocals same vocalist for both it varies between songs or they have both in the same song. Its actually quite cool when different sub-genres of metal are combined.

As I said earlier, death metal is not the influence it is the base. The influence comes from hardcore and early metalcore.

Just to be pedantic, blues is under the rock umbrella which also includes all types of metal. They are more closely related than you think.

So death metal in your opinion.......is hardcore influenced death metal? I guess I just don't see why a form of punk needs to influence metal twice. I mean death metal more or less came out of thrash metal hence the reason thrash metal and death metal have some similarities so why would they then need to influence death metal with hardcore? I guess I just think it makes more sense the other way around....as that way there is hardcore and then they decide to incorporate features of death metal into it and thus create deathcore, which is similar to death metal but not death metal. Or one could say deathcore is a combination of death metal and hardcore then they both equally influence each other an no one can debate. lol

Rock does certainly cover a lot.......but typically if someone says rock I don't assume they mean metal specifically, but yeah technically it does fall in that category.

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