The flow of story writing

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Wanna be story writer here. I do have a bit of a problem with making my stories flow. I guess by that I mean I have problems describing things in detail. I don't want to be anything like Tolkien but I find that description seems to draw the reader in. I'm certainly drawn in by it.

I also have problems when people talk. You know how when someone says something then you write 'said so-and-so' or you'd make it sound a bit more descriptive.

Please tell me I'm not the only one that struggles with this?

Last edited by pensieve on 14 Apr 2010, 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

I read somewhere that in story dialogue, the best word to use is 'said' (goes completely against what the teacher told us in school ).

I don't have problems with description or dialogue per se, but getting them to join together is difficult, especially if I am consciously trying to do it.

I find I write best when I have just woken up (especially if I was dreaming) and am not fully awake.

I often have problems with the flow of stories. I think my stories are pretty choppy, but others who read them say my style works well. I have the opposite problem with detail, though. I think sometimes I put in too much. Like most of us, I tend to notice a lot of very small details and I insert things into my stories like the way rain runs in rivulets down glass or the sound of insects calling or the way grass feels brushing against someone's ankles when it hasn't been cut recently. Sometimes, I think I insert too much of this sort of thing, but again, others tell me it's what they like about my writing. I also tend to research heavily about anything I'm putting a character through in a story, so I occasionally get a kind of pedantic tone to my writing -- which is okay if I have a character for whom that's normal or who is an expert in the subject, but I have to watch it sometimes. I've deleted gobs of this sort of rambling.

The upshot of all of this is, I do have some advice for you about dialog:

Who's your favorite author, published or unpublished? Sit down with one of their books or stories and pay really close attention to how they handle dialog. What words does your favorite author use most frequently to describe dialog? "Said" is the most commonly used word in dialog, but what words are used most after that? The word "said" can get repetitive if it's over-used; I know it annoys me to see it too often in a story. Besides, it's boring to write the same word over and over. This is a great place to toss in emotional cues, like: "Linda snarled visciously," or "Ted teased gently." In a one-to-one conversation, how long to they go before they drop in a "said Joe, with a sideways glance" just to remind the reader of which character is speaking? Where do you think they goof it up? Everyone goofs it up sometime; even the best writers have the occasional wooden line.

Now, go through some piece of dialog that you've written and apply what you've noticed. You may find that your own dialog formula prettly closely matches theirs'. That's fairly normal; we all tend to emulate what we like. Where it doesn't, see if you can't polish it up a bit and see what happens. Eventually, you will find your own flow. It's just a matter of learning to trust your voice.

Hope this helps.

"Well," I interjected, "You could probably make a case for avoiding repetition, I "

"Not So!" she interrupted. "Said is perfectly acceptable."

"That may be, " I replied, "But you want to convey more than mere dialog"

"Indeed?" she murmured.

'Why in some cases, you could even dispense with it altogether"

"Is that so?"

"Why not? Most people can follow a conversation in real life, why not on the page?" I pointed out.

"Well, you're not entirely avoiding them."

"Imagine we use them as signposts, to occasionally remind people of who's talking?" I pointed out.

"Oh, very well" she sighed. I smiled.

"And that's how you mix it up" I chuckled...

Thanks pakled. That was great.

I think I should sit down with some books. I'm reading Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows now and just love how J.K Rowling makes me want to read more and more. My sister said she's not even a good writer but she seems good enough to me. There's also Australian fantasy writer Ian Irvine who is super descriptive.
I think tomorrow I will have to force myself to sit down with some books and study them.

Thanks for your help too pschristmas. I do have a problem with writing detail despite having a habit of getting stuck on details. I suppose I should just hold an object in my hand and try to describe it in all the ways I can.

Dialogue and descriptions are easy. It's "going somewhere" that I have a problem with. Someone might read a chapter of mine and say, "Okay... so the point was...?"

I tend to have the same problem too. I have the basic outline of the story in my head, such as the major plot happenings and whatnot, but it's the space inbetween that bothers me.

I was so much better at story writing when I was younger.

The important factor with writing is that speech flows with ease.

Having someone write like this "How about we go this way" said Mary. Can be very sleepy material, and depending upon the audience could be too basic for an adolescent or adult book, but could be well suited to a child or tween book, it really depends, if you were using that basic sentence construction in an adolescent story, interject some action into the story which makes it more interesting like this.

Mary was walking alongside Ginger, her life long best friend. Mary turned around and proceeded to walk backwards as she watched Ginger nonchantly, flipping through a school library book, how she was able to simulatenously multitask always fascinated Mary, she never seemed to misbeat, Mary with a half smile, turned herself around as she continued to walk forwards she was approaching a fork path, Mary stopped and smiled as she surveyed the situation ahead, after a few seconds she shouted out to Ginger who was still dawdling in the distance reading her book at the same time "How about we go this way" pointing to the path on the left, Ginger muttered something in the distance, paying no attention to the sitation in front. Mary knew this was not there usual path but felt like a change of direction.

That text above contains not only speech but motivation as to where the characters destination is, where and who the characters are in context to each other and setting the scene which is also important, this also adds in a bit of mystery which makes the reader want to continue to read on, who knows where this path will take them, will it be dangerous, will they see they future etc.

Your only limit is your imagination.

Hope this helps

I tend to have issues with the big picture of storylines... I can write dialogue decently, but I imagine it would have more purpose if I actually constructed a plot.

I usually start with the 'big picture'...half the fun is seeing how it goes from Chapter 1 to 'the end'. Sometimes they take on a life of their own, and you just hang on and keep typing to find out what's next...

The flow is working a whole lot better. Now I have to cut some of my descriptions. I'll save the lengthy descriptions for important areas of my story.
Now I'm just a bit nervous to have it proofread.

That can happen to me too. I just get carried away, but I can notice it before it gets out of hand. It makes for very long chapters though.


Oh yes, I like to write a summary as though reading off the back of book. Then I fill in the details with chapter headings. Sometimes I think I prepare a bit too much but it works for me.

"It works for me."

Exactly. If you do actually write after all that, mind you, then you're not preparing too much. You do what works for you. I read a wonderful quote in a book about plot yesterday... let me find it.

"There are three rules for writing a novel. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are." - Somerset Maugham

Distilled, it's that you have to do what works for you. Anyway, I have trouble with description, too. I usually get caught up in dialogue, oddly enough, and this sometimes results in the story being told though it. I find words for descriptions get stale because I don't much like to use the longer or less common ones even though I know them. As soon as I start that, I get all nerdy sounding and my stuff reads like an instructions packet. Or like my brother's political rants. I also have a real problem with action and plot. What a specimen, hm? I should write? But it's fun. I once read that The Lord of the Rings came about because Tolkein wanted to tell a story. I'm no Tolkein, but I have wanted my whole life to tell a story, and I suck at it. But given time and work and careful examination, I might just be able to put one together. Imagination I've got. Stories coming out my ears. Just not out my mouth. So I must write.

What's working best for me is thinking out ideas when I can and writing for a s long as I can, whatever comes along. It's helping because I have trouble giving my characters conflict. I guess I just want them to be happy. But if I just sit and write, sometimes things just happen. A couple of nights ago, one character was completely at a loss about how to broach a tricky subject when she started feeling dizzy and had to go lay down. Poor kid had the flu. Seeing as how she's from another planet, that could get ugly... plus, she doesn't know he's seeing someone.

Yeah, that's conflict, but I want something more exciting. I figure I'm happier writing entertaining stories that great novels. Oh, I plan to do it right. First, they have to feel like real people, or as close as someone like me can manage. I hate a shallow action story with flat characters. And I don't want to write those ultra-sleepy fantasy novels that have no shared ideas with people of our world, ones where all the names have too many consonants and all the animals are hostile and there's some local drink everyone has all the danged time. And no chosen one.

That's not to sell Rowling short. She is very good at telling a story. Very readable, very accessible, with good plots. Another is Terry Pratchett. Funny fantasy with great plots and great characters and the amazing ability to actually make you worry about what will happen when it's all so silly. Death is a very funny guy in his books.

I'm going to throw in a sample of dialogue, too, because I feel like showing off. Heaven help me if it actually stinks.

Here's something I wrote after the thing I mentioned... a friend of the girl (who is from another planet, long story I hope to publish someday, and the guy mentioned is also the boyfriend, but he doesn't remember that...) with the flu is talking to her husband that night in bed. You'll see that you can suggest ownership of a phrase not only through "he/she said," but also by using a descriptive phrase next to the dialogue, or through what the speaker is saying... some phrases just make no sense coming from one speaker but clearly suggest the other:

“He what?”

“He has a girlfriend,” whispered Anna mournfully.

“Ho-ly crud. Are you gonna tell her?” asked Rain faintly.

“Y’know, I don’t think so, not yet. I don’t want her under any additional strain right now."

“No, I guess not. She is technically from another planet, so one of our flus might hit her pretty hard…”

“Yeah… I hope she’ll be okay, it’s not like she can go to the hospital.”

Rain sighed deeply. “I’ll get right on it, okay?”

“Please. She needs the fake records if she gets any sicker. I doubt they’ll know she’s from another planet but they just might
decide she’s here illegally and deport her to wherever they think she came from.”

“I’ll check with Eddie in the morning. But what about this guy? You think he’s going to remember her?”

“I don’t know, Rain! He seemed attracted to her. He saved her from a creep in the checkout line and got all steamed up when
she told him about her boyfriend.”

Rain snorted with laughter. Anna punched him in the ribs. Rain yanked the blanket up over his chest with a cry. “It’s not funny,” she said.

“It will be when this all gets cleared up. Imagine, he’s competing with himself! Maybe he’s getting jealous, maybe that’s why he got so upset. Then he’s jealous of himself, too. How can this not be funny?”

“Easily, resoundingly, my love,” she said, putting one arm around him to stop herself from punching his ribs again. She gave him a squeeze instead. He let out a small squeak of pain and she loosened her grip.

“You’re a scary woman,” he said, putting his arms around her.

“You knew that when you got me,” she whispered, raising her face to his.

He kissed her lightly and said, “Knew it? It’s one of my favorite things about you.”

“What are the others?”

“It’s a long list. Let me show you.”

“Quietly… Cat needs her sleep.”

“Ha! She sleeps like a rock! But don’t worry. I’d rather not have anyone hear…”

Anna giggled.

Done. It's fairly cheesy, but it was just a first draft.