Having trouble with novel dialogue. ._.

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iheartmegahitt
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03 Jan 2013, 9:12 pm

I was wondering if any writers out there are successful with writing could dialogue, despite having social challenges with conversations and what not. D: This is something I've been struggling with and can't seem to fix without having someone able to understand what I'm going through. ._.

Here's an example of my dialogue:

“What's a ret*d like you doing at the school so early?” one of the bullies asked after I took out my headphones.

“I always come early so I can finish my homework...” I frowned at them as the two of them snickered.

“Are you too stupid to finish it at home?” the other boy started to laugh.

“No... I don't like doing my homework at home...” I shook my head and tried to continue with my work.

I was almost finished with doing my math homework when one of the bullies grabbed my notebook and tore it up. Tears streamed down my cheeks as I sobbed over my hard work, now in shreds.

“Why...why did you...do that?” I asked as I kept my eyes on the torn shreds of my math homework.

“I don't need a reason for anything I do!” he snickered as he placed my notebook onto the picnic table next to my book.

------

I've been told my dialogue could use work and at first, I didn't really think of it. Now I know that my dialogue sucks because well, in real life, I don't know that much about what people talk about, how they talk... stuff like that. So when I write dialogue, it comes off as being flat and kind of boring.

Does anyone know any ways to improve this? D: I know I'm probably asking the wrong people but I thought maybe at least a few people might know how to fix this.


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Evinceo
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03 Jan 2013, 10:25 pm

I think the issue is more that we don't really understand the scene-the dialogue isn't bad, but the framing prose is.

Did bullies actually rip up your math homework though? That's rough.



iheartmegahitt
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03 Jan 2013, 10:30 pm

Evinceo wrote:
I think the issue is more that we don't really understand the scene-the dialogue isn't bad, but the framing prose is.

Did bullies actually rip up your math homework though? That's rough.


lol... no. XD I kind of made that up. I need to try and think of scenarios for what the bullies do to my character... I guess starting it from how I was bullied might be a pretty good start.

I do agree though. It's really hard because I have such a hard time trying to come up with interesting dialogue. My character has a form of autism, most people would more or less relate to it being close to AS/HFA... in that degree but I'm not giving her a formal autistic diagnosis. ._. She just has it plain and simple, like I do.

Anyway, I just don't want to make the excuse of saying that I can't make good dialogue because I'm autistic. ._. It's not a very good excuse and people would most likely think of it as an excuse too, you know? I honestly don't know how to make my dialogue any better. :( I mean the rest of my story is great... but the dialogue? *blows raspberry* D:


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Harry8142
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03 Jan 2013, 10:43 pm

Hello! John Steinbeck once said that if you ever have trouble writing dialogue you should say it out loud as you write it. I think there's a webpage on it, here, I'll link it.
http://www.brainpickings.org/index.php/ ... n-writing/



iheartmegahitt
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03 Jan 2013, 10:54 pm

Harry8142 wrote:
Hello! John Steinbeck once said that if you ever have trouble writing dialogue you should say it out loud as you write it. I think there's a webpage on it, here, I'll link it.
http://www.brainpickings.org/index.php/ ... n-writing/


"Forget your generalized audience. In the first place, the nameless, faceless audience will scare you to death and in the second place, unlike the theater, it doesn’t exist. In writing, your audience is one single reader. I have found that sometimes it helps to pick out one person—a real person you know, or an imagined person and write to that one."

I also like what he says here. Mainly because i worry a lot about what my readers think and try to become better for them. He has a point here and I really like that.


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SecretAgent
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03 Jan 2013, 10:58 pm

Perhaps I can be a tiny bit of help... I love writing, even if I'm not super great at it.

First, I would suggest removing the word "the" in front of the word "school". It sounds more natural that way. Sometimes you have to switch from the reader's point of view and instead, try to imagine how things would be spoken in your character's world. Next, try to avoid overusage of a word, like where it says "them" twice in the end part of the 2nd sentence, and "math homework" twice, close together. And then, I'm not sure if it's completely proper grammar to use "with" in things like "tried to continue with" and "almost finished with".

But anyways, those are mostly just simple edit things... in general, the dialogue seems fine to me so far. Just remember to keep emotion in it. (Maybe read some dramatic books/scripts/ect. for inspiration. :)

(Sorry if my advice wasn't the least bit useful; it's a bit hard for me to just generalize writing tips. I do best with specific details of things... so please understand I wasn't trying to criticize and micromanage your dialogue sentences or anything LOL. ^_^")



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04 Jan 2013, 12:00 am

I don't think bullies would ask about homework; not generally their topic. But let's keep the action as you outlined.

Use less description, allow the reader to feel what the character feels without telling the reader what the character is feeling and thinking. Also I strongly believe that bullies don't address the victim directly in conversation. Remember the victim is an object to bullies. And, I'm thinking that someone with AS might not be conversing either; how about letting the victim be too frozen with anxiety to be able to respond verbally. Have the bullies talking to one another only. How would it sound/feel that way?

By the way never shrink from re-writing, that's how writing is improved. Let's look at the effect of keeping the dialog between the bullies only:


Removing my earphones, I heard what they were saying. “What's this ret*d doing here so early?” “She's too stupid to finish her work at home." They snickered and closed in. "Let's see what we have here, it's math homework and it's just about finished." He took my notebook and tore it.

Against my will, tears streamed down my cheeks.

"Aw, man, that was harsh; why'd you do that?" the other one laughed out.

“I don't need reasons for what I do.” he said as he placed my notebook on the picnic table next to my book.



Re-write by taking away anything that's spelling out what is already obvious. You don't need to call the abusers bullies because that's obvious; they are bullying. Allow the reader to identify them as bullies.

If you think that you don't have a good feel for how folks talk in real life; study dialog in books and movies you like. Deconstruct it to see what makes it sound immediate or interesting to you.



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04 Jan 2013, 12:20 am

Three things have helped me with my dialogue, as I struggle with the same problem. For starters, I have always loved observing people without actually interacting. People-watching, like at the park or mall or whatever give you multiple speech patterns to follow, dialect, turns of phrase, etc.

Second, I have kept a "quote book" since I was 12. I write down funny or touching or just plain weird stuff people say, either in person, on movies, in good books, whatever.

Third, I have my husband (and before him, co-workers and the family I stayed with) to run dialogue with. I tell them where I'm going with the character and then read the line. They play with it until it sounds like a person saying it rather than a computer.



iheartmegahitt
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04 Jan 2013, 12:31 pm

MountainLaurel wrote:
I don't think bullies would ask about homework; not generally their topic. But let's keep the action as you outlined.

Use less description, allow the reader to feel what the character feels without telling the reader what the character is feeling and thinking. Also I strongly believe that bullies don't address the victim directly in conversation. Remember the victim is an object to bullies. And, I'm thinking that someone with AS might not be conversing either; how about letting the victim be too frozen with anxiety to be able to respond verbally. Have the bullies talking to one another only. How would it sound/feel that way?

By the way never shrink from re-writing, that's how writing is improved. Let's look at the effect of keeping the dialog between the bullies only:


Removing my earphones, I heard what they were saying. “What's this ret*d doing here so early?” “She's too stupid to finish her work at home." They snickered and closed in. "Let's see what we have here, it's math homework and it's just about finished." He took my notebook and tore it.

Against my will, tears streamed down my cheeks.

"Aw, man, that was harsh; why'd you do that?" the other one laughed out.

“I don't need reasons for what I do.” he said as he placed my notebook on the picnic table next to my book.



Re-write by taking away anything that's spelling out what is already obvious. You don't need to call the abusers bullies because that's obvious; they are bullying. Allow the reader to identify them as bullies.

If you think that you don't have a good feel for how folks talk in real life; study dialog in books and movies you like. Deconstruct it to see what makes it sound immediate or interesting to you.


I really like this... and how you wrote it. I don't think I'll write it the same but I do love the idea. However, my character doesn't actually have AS. She has the same autistic disorder I do. It's nameless and called just autism. XD But it is sort of similar to HFA/AS... so I do like this idea. ^_^

I won't copy what you said or use what you said but... I'll try to use it in my own words. It took baby steps to explain imagery and explaining things going on around my character. I like writing in first person because it actually explores things that are in her mind or her own world... sort of like a she's writing journal.


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BlueAbyss
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04 Jan 2013, 12:45 pm

I think that my social awkwardness actually helped me with dialog. When I was doing my fiction thing, my dialog always got the most praise. The reason for this is that I tend to sit back and listen in social situations. I hear more than those trying to talk over each other. It helped me develop a good ear for dialog. But it did require me being in social situations to develop that. I'm not likely as good with it now that I'm at home most of the time. I'd have to go out more to write dialog today.

But even once you develop an ear for how people talk, you have to remember that being realistic and writing good fiction are two different things. The realism is important, but it must be in small doses, and the dialog has to have a purpose in the story, not just ramble on, however realistically.

Always read it back to yourself out loud. That helps a lot. Sometimes I used a tape recorder, read it onto tape, and played the tape back so I could really hear it.



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04 Jan 2013, 5:01 pm

Harry8142 wrote:
Hello! John Steinbeck once said that if you ever have trouble writing dialogue you should say it out loud as you write it. I think there's a webpage on it, here, I'll link it.
http://www.brainpickings.org/index.php/ ... n-writing/


Someone should have told that to George Lucas. :lol:
Seriously, though; I really should try that. My dialogue is often functional at best.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



redrobin62
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05 Jan 2013, 4:21 pm

I do what BlueAbyss does - listen in on conversations others are having. As a writer, I find this necessary otherwise all my characters would be speaking in my voice, and that's a bad thing. I "spy" on conversations in the supermarket, in waiting rooms, at my job, on the street, etc. It's so interesting how people say the same things in various ways, and this obviously stems from their history, background, level of education, ethnicity, etc. To wit:
"I'm going to the store. I'll be right back."
"I'm off to the grocers. I'll return in a jiffy."
"Don't ask me where I'm going! You'll find out soon enough!"
"I'm going to the store. When I come back, you'd better not be here."
"I'm going to the store. Would you like me to bring you something?"
"I'm going to the store. Don't ask me for nothing 'cause I'm broke."
"I'm a-holler at the Koreans. Don't worry. I'll bust you with a 40."
"I'm going up the block. You want something."
I'm hitting the store before it closes. You want something?"
I'm going to the store. What d'ya want? Make it snappy."