Any tips on how to write an good villain?

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GreenTechnoFox
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14 Mar 2013, 12:16 pm

What makes a villain likable or enjoyable to your audience?

So far my villains roster includes:

1.A giant sized eighteen year old who has the mind of an eight year old

2.A psychic dictator who also has funded many educational and welfare programs.

3.A former slave and now a field marshal in an army, who is gifted with the power of cryokinisis as well as basic knife combat skills and stratigy.

4.A nine year old size shifting giant

5. clone who has to the power to absorb the anger of his opponent and boast his own psychic attacks.

5. Oh and psychic special forces that act like Spetznaz.



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14 Mar 2013, 12:18 pm

GreenTechnoFox wrote:
What makes a villain likable or enjoyable to your audience?

So far my villains roster includes:

1.A giant sized eighteen year old who has the mind of an eight year old. She is good in cooking food and destroying cities.

2.A psychic dictator who also has funded many educational and welfare programs.

3.A former slave and now a field marshal in an army, who is gifted with the power of cryokinisis as well as basic knife combat skills and stratigy.

4.A nine year old size shifting giant. He is good with playing the guitar and also destroying cities.

5. clone who has to the power to absorb the anger of his opponent and boast his own psychic attacks.

5. Oh and psychic special forces that act like Spetznaz.



Stargazer43
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14 Mar 2013, 12:22 pm

I would say that the keys to a good villain are 1.) giving him a reason for his madness, and 2.) not making him purely evil. For #1, a back-story describing how the villain ended up how he did works well, I'd say probably include some sort of traumatic/defining moment in his life. For #2, no villain should be evil simply to be evil, always give them a reason for what they do. And realize that no one is pure evil, so if you can show positive traits and actions as well it adds more depth to the character. And if the reader has to actively question whether the antagonist is truly in the right or wrong, then you know you've got some good stuff there!



GreenTechnoFox
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14 Mar 2013, 12:27 pm

Stargazer43 wrote:
I would say that the keys to a good villain are 1.) giving him a reason for his madness, and 2.) not making him purely evil. For #1, a back-story describing how the villain ended up how he did works well, I'd say probably include some sort of traumatic/defining moment in his life. For #2, no villain should be evil simply to be evil, always give them a reason for what they do. And realize that no one is pure evil, so if you can show positive traits and actions as well it adds more depth to the character. And if the reader has to actively question whether the antagonist is truly in the right or wrong, then you know you've got some good stuff there!


I see. Well the only two villains that are evil to be evil are the clone and the nine year old. The clone was bread to be a weapon so his motivation is he is just doing what he was created to do. The child likes being evil, but consider if you where only nine years old, could become fifty foot tall at will, and where raised by people who taught you to use your powers to benefit yourself. You would be evil too I suppose. Also there is not any religion in my story so the characters alignment are strictly up to the plot.



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14 Mar 2013, 12:58 pm

These qualities make the best villains, in my opinion:

1. Greed. The villain wants more. It doesn't matter what, but villains usually want more power over others, whether this power comes through wealth, resources, knowledge, or destructive force, the villain always wants more.

2. Conceit. Villains operate under the belief that they deserve more than anyone else. They may express this openly, or only through their actions.

3. Contempt. Laws, customs, and the needs and wants of others simply don't matter to villains. They will go about their business as if these things do not exist, or that their existence is irrelevant to their plans.

4. Tenacity. A villain who keeps coming back no matter how many times you think he's been defeated makes for a more interesting story-arch than a series of progressively more powerful monsters.

5. Adaptability. They will enter into any relationship - personal, corporate, or political - to achieve their goals. They will assume different roles and identities, or completely drop out of sight for years, just to regroup their forces. They will learn new things from their mistakes and the mistakes of others, as well as from the tactics and technologies of their enemies and vassals. Even when the villain is reduced to wandering the streets, he must still adapt to his situation in order to rise above it.

6. Intelligence. It is not the weapon system that wins wars, but the tactical superiority derived from the villain's intelligence that directs it. It is one thing to destroy an enemy's homeworld by dropping an asteroid on it, but it is quite another for a villain to convince the enemy that it is his or her best interest to hand over rulership of that planet and serve as the villain's vassal - defeat takes many forms.

7. Schadenfreude. The villain always derives pleasure from the misfortunes of others. A smile, a smirk, and a sarcastic comment is all it takes for a villain to convey the idea that you are just one more ignorant peasant that is out of your league in trying to defeat someone so grand as the villain must be.

My favorite villain, by the way, is "Baal", one of the Gua'uld characters from Stargate-SG1. He was all of these thing, and more.

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"Your defeat was inevitable. Now, serve your new god..."



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14 Mar 2013, 1:19 pm

If you ask me, the easiest thing in the world is to write a super-evil villain. That's why there's so many of them.

If you ask me, if you want your story to be more than popcorn... have a villain that if the tables were turned could be perceived as the hero. Say...

Mankind's getting overpopulated. The villain is the secretary general of the UN, who seizes control as a "one-world government", and institutes all sorts of draconian measures such as forced sterilizations after the first child, forced relocation to city-enclaves for the purpose of rewilding, etc. He's forced to massively revoke human rights in order to do this. Martial law is instituted. Our hero finds himself fighting for freedom against this oppressive regime and for the right to some unregulated babymaking.

So who's the hero? The man who instituted necessary measures to save our species and planet, or the terrorist who feels like his right to make lots of babies is more important than forcing the population down to a reasonable level?

I dunno, that's the best thing I could come up with off the top of my head. I like that kind of gray zone, like in Deadwood where Seth's lawful goodness often times endangered the town and Al's moral adaptability often saved it.



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14 Mar 2013, 1:24 pm

Fnord wrote:
These qualities make the best villains, in my opinion:

1. Greed. The villain wants more. It doesn't matter what, but villains usually want more power over others, whether this power comes through wealth, resources, knowledge, or destructive force, the villain always wants more.

2. Conceit. Villains operate under the belief that they deserve more than anyone else. They may express this openly, or only through their actions.

3. Contempt. Laws, customs, and the needs and wants of others simply don't matter to villains. They will go about their business as if these things do not exist, or that their existence is irrelevant to their plans.

4. Tenacity. A villain who keeps coming back no matter how many times you think he's been defeated makes for a more interesting story-arch than a series of progressively more powerful monsters.

5. Adaptability. They will enter into any relationship - personal, corporate, or political - to achieve their goals. They will assume different roles and identities, or completely drop out of sight for years, just to regroup their forces. They will learn new things from their mistakes and the mistakes of others, as well as from the tactics and technologies of their enemies and vassals. Even when the villain is reduced to wandering the streets, he must still adapt to his situation in order to rise above it.

6. Intelligence. It is not the weapon system that wins wars, but the tactical superiority derived from the villain's intelligence that directs it. It is one thing to destroy an enemy's homeworld by dropping an asteroid on it, but it is quite another for a villain to convince the enemy that it is his or her best interest to hand over rulership of that planet and serve as the villain's vassal - defeat takes many forms.

7. Schadenfreude. The villain always derives pleasure from the misfortunes of others. A smile, a smirk, and a sarcastic comment is all it takes for a villain to convey the idea that you are just one more ignorant peasant that is out of your league in trying to defeat someone so grand as the villain must be.

My favorite villain, by the way, is "Baal", one of the Gua'uld characters from Stargate-SG1. He was all of these thing, and more.

Image
"Your defeat was inevitable. Now, serve your new god..."


Hm let me see.

1.Greed: Well one of my villains wants to learn, but greed is mostly an non-existant concept of my villains. More like they want more conflict.

2. Well they do not have the mindset of "I deserve more," rather "I suffer more."

3.Now allot of my villains do partake in this action. Especially they two giant ones mentioned above. They step on soldier like they where grapes. Although my main villain faction does believe in setting up laws to protect their people.

4. That is almost a given trait of my villains. My morally grey anti-villains believe if they give up they will all die. One of my villains is so out of touch with the world around her she believes it is all a game. The main bad guy faction in my story have taken attacks on their home planet by the supposed good guys before they even entered the story. So they are sort of like how Russia fought back against the fascists in WW2.

5.That is often very present in my stories. One example is the psychic dictator I mentioned above. He often likes to make allies and in public appears pretty nice and friendly.

6. That is the name of the game of my good villains. They win by playing on the enemies viewpoint of them as weak. They have better technology then the heroes, and even seem to be barely unshakable in the upper echelons of their leadership loyalty wise.

7. That is a big theme of my villains. Even my most lovable bad guys like to see things break. I have my nine year old villain once attacked a city with a giant sized magnifying glass just so he could watch people burn like ants.



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14 Mar 2013, 2:15 pm

GreenTechnoFox wrote:
1.Greed: Well one of my villains wants to learn, but greed is mostly an non-existant concept of my villains. More like they want more conflict.

Then he is just a "Bully".

GreenTechnoFox wrote:
2. Well they do not have the mindset of "I deserve more," rather "I suffer more."

Then he is an angsty bully.

GreenTechnoFox wrote:
3.Now allot of my villains do partake in this action. Especially they two giant ones mentioned above. They step on soldier like they where grapes. Although my main villain faction does believe in setting up laws to protect their people.

These two are monsters, not villains.

GreenTechnoFox wrote:
4. That is almost a given trait of my villains. My morally grey anti-villains believe if they give up they will all die. One of my villains is so out of touch with the world around her she believes it is all a game. The main bad guy faction in my story have taken attacks on their home planet by the supposed good guys before they even entered the story. So they are sort of like how Russia fought back against the fascists in WW2.

She is likely a psychopath of some sort. Indifference is not contempt.

GreenTechnoFox wrote:
5.That is often very present in my stories. One example is the psychic dictator I mentioned above. He often likes to make allies and in public appears pretty nice and friendly.

It's one thing to adapt to a situation, it's another to adapt others to you.

GreenTechnoFox wrote:
6. That is the name of the game of my good villains. They win by playing on the enemies viewpoint of them as weak. They have better technology then the heroes, and even seem to be barely unshakable in the upper echelons of their leadership loyalty wise.

Villains should not necessarily be better than the heroes, they should just think they are.

GreenTechnoFox wrote:
7. That is a big theme of my villains. Even my most lovable bad guys like to see things break. I have my nine year old villain once attacked a city with a giant sized magnifying glass just so he could watch people burn like ants.

Again, this is bullying, not villainy.

These characters are little more than embodiments of natural forces, and not characters. Any good villain - one that people actually like - is as well-developed and fleshed out as any character. They should be counter-points to the protagonists, and not just childish freaks of nature trying to break things.

A true villain is not just a gun-toting punching-bag for the hero, or a fire-breathing superchild, but a constant irritant; a background cause for all that goes wrong in the hero's world.

Is there a new drug on the street? Has a shipment of nuclear materials gone missing? Are people disappearing, only to reappear with new identities and no memory of their previous lives? Is someone buying up all of a certain commodity? Has there been a string of 'incidents' involving covert military operations in a domestic urban environment?

Does all of this tie together? Who is behind it all? Why? What do they want?

Comic-book bad guys come and go, but a good villain lasts forever.

Tauriq Moosa wrote:
It's time we take back the villain. It's time we destroy his boring, cackling face, his sharp teeth, his banal "evil for evil's sake", his consistent outlining of his plans to quivering minions or tied up heroes in shadowed fortresses. We're better than this, which means our villains can be, too.


And from the Wisegeek Website:

Quote:
A great literary villain is not any one thing; some are moustache-twirlers or evil geniuses, some are darkly complex, tortured souls, while others are amoral crazies who act wholly on impulse. There are many ways to write a literary villain, but a unique characteristic often binds the truly memorable anti-heroes together: they are at least as complex as the heroes.

...

For the most part, the best literary villains remind us that they, too, are human. No matter how twisted or dark they might be, they are not so different than you or I. The paths that separate the hero from the villain are complex and uncertain, and great writers are often able to accurately depict not only the evil done, but the humanity abandoned.


Here is the best description of "How To Create a Credible Villain in Fiction" that I have ever read.



GreenTechnoFox
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14 Mar 2013, 2:39 pm

Fnord wrote:
GreenTechnoFox wrote:
1.Greed: Well one of my villains wants to learn, but greed is mostly an non-existant concept of my villains. More like they want more conflict.

Then he is just a "Bully".

GreenTechnoFox wrote:
2. Well they do not have the mindset of "I deserve more," rather "I suffer more."

Then he is an angsty bully.

GreenTechnoFox wrote:
3.Now allot of my villains do partake in this action. Especially they two giant ones mentioned above. They step on soldier like they where grapes. Although my main villain faction does believe in setting up laws to protect their people.

These two are monsters, not villains.

GreenTechnoFox wrote:
4. That is almost a given trait of my villains. My morally grey anti-villains believe if they give up they will all die. One of my villains is so out of touch with the world around her she believes it is all a game. The main bad guy faction in my story have taken attacks on their home planet by the supposed good guys before they even entered the story. So they are sort of like how Russia fought back against the fascists in WW2.

She is likely a psychopath of some sort. Indifference is not contempt.

GreenTechnoFox wrote:
5.That is often very present in my stories. One example is the psychic dictator I mentioned above. He often likes to make allies and in public appears pretty nice and friendly.

It's one thing to adapt to a situation, it's another to adapt others to you.

GreenTechnoFox wrote:
6. That is the name of the game of my good villains. They win by playing on the enemies viewpoint of them as weak. They have better technology then the heroes, and even seem to be barely unshakable in the upper echelons of their leadership loyalty wise.

Villains should not necessarily be better than the heroes, they should just think they are.

GreenTechnoFox wrote:
7. That is a big theme of my villains. Even my most lovable bad guys like to see things break. I have my nine year old villain once attacked a city with a giant sized magnifying glass just so he could watch people burn like ants.

Again, this is bullying, not villainy.

These characters are little more than embodiments of natural forces, and not characters. Any good villain - one that people actually like - is as well-developed and fleshed out as any character. They should be counter-points to the protagonists, and not just childish freaks of nature trying to break things.

A true villain is not just a gun-toting punching-bag for the hero, or a fire-breathing superchild, but a constant irritant; a background cause for all that goes wrong in the hero's world.

Is there a new drug on the street? Has a shipment of nuclear materials gone missing? Are people disappearing, only to reappear with new identities and no memory of their previous lives? Is someone buying up all of a certain commodity? Has there been a string of 'incidents' involving covert military operations in a domestic urban environment?

Does all of this tie together? Who is behind it all? Why? What do they want?

Comic-book bad guys come and go, but a good villain lasts forever.


1. Well the one interested in learning is actually the one who funds the education and healthcare programs on his home planet. He is one of my nicer villains.

2. Well he probably is. Although ironically he cannot stand kids getting bullied and has even stood up for a child being bullied once. He is sort of a hypocrite, then again he is too young to understand what a hypocrite is. :lol:

3. Actually the older female can be quite kind, generous, and caring. She just is oblivious to what she does is wrong.

4.Well um actually she is kind of...Well she is psychopathic, but she is also kind of mentally inhibited. Although she is my most loved villain with a fan club of over 130 people.

5. Oh well he has done that as well. He lead a revolution against a tyrant who killed his wife. (He was a political leader before the revolution.

6. I make my heroes more rude and obnoxious then my villains on purpose. It is a morally grey conflict. I make my heroes sort of mean, but I make my morally grey villains seem like they are noble in a few areas.

7. Well he often has shown to do both. See the kid works in a super villain sort of special forces unit for a known evil faction based on the canon of the fandom they are based on.

Oh they are very counteractive to their heroic counterparts. Also they do have many other emotions other then being evil, (I just am not wishing to tell about them as I know they would not be liked on here.)

In fact I tell my whole story from the villains perspective, well from the anti-villain factions's perspective. I often show how they feel in my story more then my heroes.

There is an inter-dimensional war between the humans and my villains. See my main villains live on a world that is a parallel universe then my heroes. The problem is the government of the prime verse attacked their home world and now they want revenge served with the destruction of the aggressors. In short both sides are evil, but my villains are sort of the more detailed ones.



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14 Mar 2013, 5:34 pm

I don't know why villains can't be just completely evil any more. They don't have to be TOO cliche, but I don't want to feel bad for a bloodthirsty villain who kills and destroys because of some childhood trauma they suffered, and if they did they should have learned to not be so bitter and seek revenge on the world---oh wait, I just described myself. :lol:

I'm a cartoonist who makes "Disney-Style" characters, most of them humanized animals or fantasy creatures, so the bad guys are influenced a lot by classic Disney animation as well. One of my personal favorites is a goblin queen. Although she has typical goblin characteristics like green skin, horns and a wart here and there (although I've arranged them to look more like beauty marks), she is tall, thin, and curvaceous instead of short and fat (animated villains never seem to be proportioned normally, they're either tall and skinny, short and fat, or really buff). She wears a form-fitting gown that's bright red and decorated with yellow flames. She's a lot like a cobra, both in appearance and personality, making her quite different from the shorter, stockier, less intelligent goblins that serve her. I also created a bunch of evil aliens that look like assorted chocolates who invade Earth because they simply want more chocolate (greed) and don't care if they hurt anyone as long as they get it (uncaring). And a female superhero hippopotamus has to stop them (really) Of course they're not meant to be "serious" villains. My stories and cartoons aren't for the most part. :)



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14 Mar 2013, 6:01 pm

lostonearth35 wrote:
I don't know why villains can't be just completely evil any more. They don't have to be TOO cliche, but I don't want to feel bad for a bloodthirsty villain who kills and destroys because of some childhood trauma they suffered, and if they did they should have learned to not be so bitter and seek revenge on the world---oh wait, I just described myself. :lol:

I'm a cartoonist who makes "Disney-Style" characters, most of them humanized animals or fantasy creatures, so the bad guys are influenced a lot by classic Disney animation as well. One of my personal favorites is a goblin queen. Although she has typical goblin characteristics like green skin, horns and a wart here and there (although I've arranged them to look more like beauty marks), she is tall, thin, and curvaceous instead of short and fat (animated villains never seem to be proportioned normally, they're either tall and skinny, short and fat, or really buff). She wears a form-fitting gown that's bright red and decorated with yellow flames. She's a lot like a cobra, both in appearance and personality, making her quite different from the shorter, stockier, less intelligent goblins that serve her. I also created a bunch of evil aliens that look like assorted chocolates who invade Earth because they simply want more chocolate (greed) and don't care if they hurt anyone as long as they get it (uncaring). And a female superhero hippopotamus has to stop them (really) Of course they're not meant to be "serious" villains. My stories and cartoons aren't for the most part. :)


Interesting. I wonder, why does have to be tall to be in charge? In real life the most dangerous rulers know to day such as: Hitler, Napolean (they where short by today's standards I believe,) and Stalin where all short. I am not saying that is wrong, but can a super intelligent villain be short? For instance the major here: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... 7494,d.dmg



I understand it would make her stand out more, but do they have to be tall to be the mastermind behind the aliens? I am just curious.



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14 Mar 2013, 7:03 pm

If you really want to motivate a character to do something totally despicable to others, I suggest you give them an inflated sense of personal superiority over their victims. History shows that even apparently "normal" people can commit the bloodiest atrocities against anyone they perceive as less than worthy human beings. Dehumanization is the key to rationalizing violence and injustice.



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14 Mar 2013, 7:11 pm

Too bad most villains I see in modern literature (especially in comic books, manga, and fanfic) are stereotypical bad guys with infinite resources, infinite power, and intimidating qualities.

Rarely do I see a villain who is just an ordinary, average person who is determined to get what he or she wants with little concern for those who get in the way - someone who is just as likely to manipulate actions from behind the scenes as he or she is to shoot someone in the face. Don Vito Corleone ("The Godfather") was an excellent example of this type of villain - he was the anti-hero of the series, and real people loved him.

Villains should have equal influence on the plot of the story as any other main character; and as such, villains should be at least as well-developed as the main characters.

If your villains are one-trick cliches, then your main characters are going to be just as bad, if not worse.

BrandonSP wrote:
If you really want to motivate a character to do something totally despicable to others, I suggest you give them an inflated sense of personal superiority over their victims...

Just give them Religion, instead.

Bad people do bad things, and good people do good things; but for good people to do bad things ... that takes Religion!



Last edited by Fnord on 14 Mar 2013, 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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14 Mar 2013, 7:31 pm

BrandonSP wrote:
If you really want to motivate a character to do something totally despicable to others, I suggest you give them an inflated sense of personal superiority over their victims. History shows that even apparently "normal" people can commit the bloodiest atrocities against anyone they perceive as less than worthy human beings. Dehumanization is the key to rationalizing violence and injustice.


Interesting. I seem to have villains that are just the opposite, take Hideo for instance here: https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www ... RniS6juCXA Throught the story he is constantly referred to lower class, yet he uses this as merely a facade to hide his true sinister. I think the phrase goes "You should watch out for the quiet ones." I do believe history has shown that a true mastermind lets his opponents believe he is better then them, just to strike them when they are most vulnerable.

In the story I am working on now the villains where attacked first so now they are in sort of the situation Russia was in WW2, they are now counterattacking and laying waste to whatever is in their path. There leader often tells his followers how he thinks the humans think they are superior to his planet, this starts anger and hatred to become better then their foes.



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14 Mar 2013, 7:38 pm

Fnord wrote:
Too bad most villains I see in modern literature (especially in comic books, manga, and fanfic) are stereotypical bad guys with infinite resources, infinite power, and intimidating qualities.

Rarely do I see a villain who is just an ordinary, average person who is determined to get what he or she wants with little concern for those who get in the way - someone who is just as likely to manipulate actions from behind the scenes as he or she is to shoot someone in the face. Don Vito Corleone ("The Godfather") was an excellent example of this type of villain - he was the anti-hero of the series, and real people loved him.

Villains should have equal influence on the plot of the story as any other main character; and as such, villains should be at least as well-developed as the main characters.

If your villains are one-trick cliches, then your main characters are going to be just as bad, if not worse.

BrandonSP wrote:
If you really want to motivate a character to do something totally despicable to others, I suggest you give them an inflated sense of personal superiority over their victims...

Just give them Religion, instead.

Bad people do bad things, and good people do good things; but for good people to do bad things ... that takes Religion!


Well most of my villains except the clone and the child are anti-villains, they are radical and believe what they are doing is the right thing. I think that makes them more dangerous as a normal villain would flee if things go to bad, but my villains literally believe they have to stay and fight or they will all die. My main bad guy army have attacked cities and bombarded many areas, yet they treat civilians with respect as well as POW's. They are morally grey. I call them a Dark Democracy, which does have freedom, but their laws are strict for crimes committed. For instance if you kill a child of the enemy's nation while not in combat you are likely to be shot by your own officer. In this society you can literally be banished from a major city for a week if you smoke or drink, (yes that is insane, but if you are caught with drugs you are banished to the wilderness for two months.)



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14 Mar 2013, 11:30 pm

It depends on what you are going for. Do you want the villain to be an evil character or a tragic character, do you want him to be repulsive or attractive, ect. The important thing is that it's the personality of the character in the context of the story which determines whether it's good or not, not the external details.


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