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starkid
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12 Apr 2015, 11:44 pm

I miss being engrossed in a science fiction novel. I've been reading my favorite novel, The Time Machine, over and over again, but I'm tired of that, so I want to see if anyone has any recommendations.

My problem is that I kind of hate modern fiction of all genres. I dislike stories that include a lot of characters, drama (that includes politics), and dialogue. Something like one or two characters in an alien environment with some adventure and more narration than dialogue is my ideal. Something besides Jules Verne, H.G. Wells, and C.S. Lewis (because I've read their stuff already).



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13 Apr 2015, 12:23 am

Philip K. Dick is my favorite author. His stuff isn't really what they call "hard" science fiction, but a more philosophical kind. Characters and dialogue and ideas; probably not what you're looking for based on your description. But if you've seen any of the films based on his writing -- Blade Runner, Total Recall, Minority Report, etc. -- then you'll have at least a rough idea of what he's like. I say rough because they typically take his quieter stories and turn them into action/adventure films. You may find the source material boring if you like the more visceral stuff from the movies, though his stuff tends to be pretty fast-paced and plot-driven despite all the talk and philosophy. The Library of America has a lovely hardcover collection with The Man in the High Castle, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, Ubik, and The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch, and I can't think of a better place to start. These novels are not only terrific but also very accessible.

If you want something more simplistic and action-oriented, I can at least recommend the John Carter stories by Edgar Rice Burroughs. The first three -- A Princess of Mars, The Gods of Mars, and The Warlord of Mars -- are easily the best and should be everyone's starting place. They form a nice little trilogy and are typically sold together in a single volume. (They're also online for free since they're in the public domain.) The remaining books are a crapshoot, but Marvel's John Carter, Warlord of Mars comic series is also good. And, of course, you can check out the 2012 Disney John Carter movie to get a taste of what the books are all about.

I read Arthur C. Clarke's 2001: A Space Odyssey and enjoyed it, but the movie was better frankly, and his type of "hard" science fiction (which favors details and scientific accuracy over storytelling and entertainment value) isn't really my bag.



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13 Apr 2015, 1:00 am

Inherit the Stars
The Gentle Giants of Ganymede
Giants Star

It's a trilogy novel by James P. Hogan.

I used to read more when I was younger and this sci-fi novel was my favorite to read.

I was just reading the wiki on the Giants series and it turns out that there are two books that came out later I've never read. I'll have to check them out when I get the chance.

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starkid
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13 Apr 2015, 1:38 am

Jory wrote:
Philip K. Dick is my favorite author. His stuff isn't really what they call "hard" science fiction, but a more philosophical kind. Characters and dialogue and ideas; probably not what you're looking for based on your description.


I like ideas. I enjoy reading science fiction that has social and philosophical commentary; I just prefer that it is narrated, rather than discussed between several characters.

In fact, that's probably what I'm accustomed to. The only novel I ever read that was supposedly "hard" science fiction didn't have much scientific detail; it had a lot of detail about the society's political system. So I'm not sure what real hard science fiction is like, but I'm definitely willing to try it as well.



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13 Apr 2015, 1:53 am

Jory wrote:
Philip K. Dick is my favorite author. His stuff isn't really what they call "hard" science fiction, but a more philosophical kind. Characters and dialogue and ideas; probably not what you're looking for based on your description. But if you've seen any of the films based on his writing -- Blade Runner, Total Recall, Minority Report, etc. -- then you'll have at least a rough idea of what he's like. I say rough because they typically take his quieter stories and turn them into action/adventure films. You may find the source material boring if you like the more visceral stuff from the movies, though his stuff tends to be pretty fast-paced and plot-driven despite all the talk and philosophy. The Library of America has a lovely hardcover collection with The Man in the High Castle, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, Ubik, and The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch, and I can't think of a better place to start. These novels are not only terrific but also very accessible.



Came in here ready to push Philip K. Dick. I have the same Library of America collection and those are some very unusual stories especially UBIK.

As for movies, I feel his work was given a very respectable adaption with A Scanner Darkly. That story takes a look into the Drug War and Surveillance State through the lens of Science Fiction.



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13 Apr 2015, 1:55 am

starkid wrote:
Jory wrote:
Philip K. Dick is my favorite author. His stuff isn't really what they call "hard" science fiction, but a more philosophical kind. Characters and dialogue and ideas; probably not what you're looking for based on your description.


I like ideas. I enjoy reading science fiction that has social and philosophical commentary; I just prefer that it is narrated, rather than discussed between several characters.

In fact, that's probably what I'm accustomed to. The only novel I ever read that was supposedly "hard" science fiction didn't have much scientific detail; it had a lot of detail about the society's political system. So I'm not sure what real hard science fiction is like, but I'm definitely willing to try it as well.


Maybe you would like The Andromeda Strain. I think that had minimal dialogue, or maybe mostly monologue. Lots of descriptions about quarantine protection while a possible space bacteria or virus is investigated.



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20 Apr 2015, 12:02 pm

I'm partial to Larry Niven. Though if you're not a fan of dialog I'd suggest staying away from the works he coauthored with Jerry Pournelle. Except "The Mote in God's Eye" is totally worth it, makes up for a lot of the dialog with extremely fascinating aliens, the Moties. These aliens are biologically specialized to the roles they play in their society, e.g. a ruler caste with mind-control over the other castes, a warrior caste which are born war machines, and (notably) an engineer caste whose closest human equivalent are autistic savants.


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20 Apr 2015, 9:14 pm

I would also plug PKD. My favorites are VALIS and The Divine Invasion. Stanislaw Lem has some interesting works. His book Solaris has been turned into a film twice. I am personally most drawn to stories that are "weird". Themes like the uncertainty of reality, the shattering of taken for granted "truths", etc...



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01 May 2015, 1:51 pm

Fahrenheit 451

Brave New World

1984

Animal Farm

All great sci-fi novels, even though all of these were written at some point during the Cold War, so if you like a good dystopian sci-fi novel, consider reading any of these.


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01 May 2015, 3:31 pm

Have you read the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? It's a satirical sci fi series inspired by IIIumlnatus.

It's also a full cast radio play, an 80s Dr Who style TV series, and a film. Each of them tell the story differently.



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01 May 2015, 3:46 pm

Maybe "The Martian" by Andy Weir?

http://www.andyweirauthor.com/books/the-martian-hc



starkid
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01 May 2015, 9:36 pm

AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
Fahrenheit 451

Brave New World

1984

Animal Farm


I've read all of those books and I do not consider them to be works of science fiction. Brave New World has some futuristic technology in it, but I can't think of anything that would put Animal Farm in the sci-fi category.



starkid
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01 May 2015, 10:50 pm

Thanks for all of the recommendations, but I'm just going to give up on reading sci-fi. It's not just the dialogue and all the social drama/extroverted perspective that annoys me, it's the writing style. Modern fiction is dumbed down; the sentences are shorter and the vocabulary is relatively restricted. I'm probably not great at explaining the subtleties of stylistic differences, but here's an example sentence from a Lovecraft tale:

We retreated to a spot comparatively near the way we must take to return to the lodge, and yet not too far from the open place where the slab lay, so that we might see clearly and still remain hidden in a place easy of access to the return path.

That seems a more lyrically flowing, natural way to compose a sentence than this except from Inherit the Stars:

Seated in her office in the analysis section, Valereya Petrokhov turned to the pile of reports left on her desk for routine approval.

The Martian, which someone linked to upthread, has a very interesting plot, but the writing style reads like See Spot Run to me, or like See Spot Run The Megatelagraphisizer (I'm referring to details about technical equipment in the excerpt). I can't hold the names of all those machines in my mind any more than I can hold the names of a bunch of characters, so when they re-appear in the story, I get lost.

I've tried, but it's too difficult for me to become accustomed to modern styles. I'd rather just branch out to other genres and continue reading old books than be continually disappointed in and frustrated by the books that have been written past 1950 or so.

Also, I like outdoorsy adventure, and a lot of modern sci-fi is just a bunch of people sitting on their asses in labs and stuff. There are a lot of little details about protocol and bureaucracy and the culture of the futuristic society and unnecessary technical specs and names of machines that makes my eyes glaze over. The Engineering Materials Research Department of the Ministry of Space Sciences.... I couldn't even make it through that sentence. I was thinking, 'the name of this place is too long, I don't care, I won't remember, when is somebody going to go outside and do something?' I like reading sci-fi because I like reading about nature, not because I'm interested in a bunch of names and rules people make up.

Come to think of it, there is a difference between natural philosophy and science, and the difference shows in the fiction. Old sci-fi leans more towards natural philosophy as the subject matter; modern sci-fi leans more towards science. Science is sterile and self-absorbed, focused on proliferating equations and terminology and reports and theories, and who cares how well all these bizarre abstractions describe nature because we like sitting about and philosophizing about our models, which reflect ourselves more than the actual world (cough QM, cough). Natural philosophy is focused on the natural world and observation and awe and respect for what is right before our eyes rather than the glitzy, over-involved metaphors we can dream up about the way the world operates.

Perhaps none of that makes much sense to anyone.

RoadRatt wrote:
Inherit the Stars

I checked this book out from the library. I couldn't get into it. It still seems like it has a lot of dialogue, and too many characters to keep up with.

I also read Andromeda Strain last year, and it wasn't too bad. It was definitely the most interesting and readable sci-fi I'd come across in months, maybe even years.



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05 May 2015, 2:58 pm

The Dream of Perpetual Motion by Dexter Palmer is absolutely incredible. It's a strange mix of old and new brought together to make this world that feels all... wrong, and the main character who's eyes you view this world through comes across as so autistic it's not even funny. Whether that's because he's seeing the world from the perspective that the reader might, so to him it's a 'wrong planet' as it were, is open to debate.

I can't recommend this enough though seriously, check it out, and if you like it please let me know. There's a few chapters in particular that will stick with me forever and it would be great to have someone to discuss it with. :D



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05 May 2015, 3:46 pm

DataLore wrote:
The Dream of Perpetual Motion by Dexter Palmer is absolutely incredible.


It doesn't seem like science fiction to me:

Starred Review. Palmer's dazzling debut explodes with energy and invention on almost every page. In a steampunky alternate reality, genius inventor Prospero Taligent promises the 100 kids he's invited to his daughter Miranda's birthday party that they will have their "heart's desires fulfilled." When young Harold Winslow says he wants to be a storyteller, he sets in motion an astonishing plot that will eventually find him imprisoned aboard a giant zeppelin, the Chrysalis, powered by Taligent's greatest invention, a (probably faulty) perpetual motion machine. As Harold tells his story from his airborne prison, a fantastic and fantastical account unfolds: cities full of Taligent's mechanical men, a virtual island where Harold and Miranda play as children, the Kafkaesque goings-on in the boiler rooms and galleries of Taligent's tower. Harold's narration is interspersed with dreams, diary entries, memos and monologues from the colorful supporting cast, and the dialogue, both overly formal and B-movie goofy ("I'm afraid the death rays are just a bunch of science fiction folderol"), offers comic counterpoint.

Several reviewers called it steampunk.



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11 May 2015, 4:03 pm

starkid wrote:
Thanks for all of the recommendations, but I'm just going to give up on reading sci-fi. It's not just the dialogue and all the social drama/extroverted perspective that annoys me, it's the writing style. Modern fiction is dumbed down; the sentences are shorter and the vocabulary is relatively restricted. I'm probably not great at explaining the subtleties of stylistic differences, but here's an example sentence from a Lovecraft tale:

We retreated to a spot comparatively near the way we must take to return to the lodge, and yet not too far from the open place where the slab lay, so that we might see clearly and still remain hidden in a place easy of access to the return path.

That seems a more lyrically flowing, natural way to compose a sentence than this except from Inherit the Stars:

Seated in her office in the analysis section, Valereya Petrokhov turned to the pile of reports left on her desk for routine approval.

The Martian, which someone linked to upthread, has a very interesting plot, but the writing style reads like See Spot Run to me, or like See Spot Run The Megatelagraphisizer (I'm referring to details about technical equipment in the excerpt). I can't hold the names of all those machines in my mind any more than I can hold the names of a bunch of characters, so when they re-appear in the story, I get lost.

I've tried, but it's too difficult for me to become accustomed to modern styles. I'd rather just branch out to other genres and continue reading old books than be continually disappointed in and frustrated by the books that have been written past 1950 or so.

Also, I like outdoorsy adventure, and a lot of modern sci-fi is just a bunch of people sitting on their asses in labs and stuff. There are a lot of little details about protocol and bureaucracy and the culture of the futuristic society and unnecessary technical specs and names of machines that makes my eyes glaze over. The Engineering Materials Research Department of the Ministry of Space Sciences.... I couldn't even make it through that sentence. I was thinking, 'the name of this place is too long, I don't care, I won't remember, when is somebody going to go outside and do something?' I like reading sci-fi because I like reading about nature, not because I'm interested in a bunch of names and rules people make up.

Come to think of it, there is a difference between natural philosophy and science, and the difference shows in the fiction. Old sci-fi leans more towards natural philosophy as the subject matter; modern sci-fi leans more towards science. Science is sterile and self-absorbed, focused on proliferating equations and terminology and reports and theories, and who cares how well all these bizarre abstractions describe nature because we like sitting about and philosophizing about our models, which reflect ourselves more than the actual world (cough QM, cough). Natural philosophy is focused on the natural world and observation and awe and respect for what is right before our eyes rather than the glitzy, over-involved metaphors we can dream up about the way the world operates.

Perhaps none of that makes much sense to anyone.

RoadRatt wrote:
Inherit the Stars

I checked this book out from the library. I couldn't get into it. It still seems like it has a lot of dialogue, and too many characters to keep up with.

I also read Andromeda Strain last year, and it wasn't too bad. It was definitely the most interesting and readable sci-fi I'd come across in months, maybe even years.


What do you think of this, writing style-wise?

Quote:
The laundry vat was a tall glass cylinder. It hung from the underside of the branch, from lines pounded into the black bark over Minya's head. Around it ran an extensive wickerwork platform woven from live spine branches. A layer of rocks beneath the vat supported a bed of coals. A pipe ran all the way from the treemouth reservoir to supply the water; an impressive achievement, had Minya not been too tired to appreciate it.


If it's palatable enough for you, consider giving Larry Niven's "The Integral Trees" a shot. It certainly has the outdoors adventure flavor you're looking for (well, as long as the adventures of people living in 50-mile-tall trees floating in a cloud of gas orbiting a star with no ground to speak of and tidal forces in lieu of gravity qualifies as "outdoors").


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