Villains in fiction

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they are probably one of the oldest, and in some cases the most important element in a piece of fiction. To misquote Roger Ebert, "a piece of fiction is only as good as its villain." there are many great villains in history. Darth Vader, Sephiroth, Mordred, the Daleks, Richard III, Macbeth, Hannibal Lecter, Orochimaru, Cthulhu, the Cenobites, the list goes on and on. As a writer, I have always been obsessed with villains( I blame too many years of playing Dungeon Keeper), and I have always tried to amek them the jewel in my crown of writing. But what makes a villain truly great and memorable? I have asked many NTs this question, and most of them just say 'because s/he's awesome/cool' or 'just because'. I firmly believe that there is soemthign subtle, maybe even subliminal that makes a Villain memorable, and hopefully aspies pick up on this a lot easier than most NTs. Anyone got any ideas or opinions on what makes a villain your favorite?

Good villains to me have kind of a duplicitous quality to them since on the one hand they are fanatical in their ideology whatever that may be but they operate in a very rational and calculated manner. Osama Bin Laden is a good example of one because he is certainly a devout Muslim and takes huge risks and personal suffering for that belief but he is still able to think rationally and not be delusional about his goals which isn't what you would expect from your average terrorist. I would think the average terrorists believes that Allah is going to make whatever he tries successful but Osama is realistic about accomplishing his goals and can actually come up with ingenious plans that don't rely on the supernatural.

My favorite villain of all time though has to be Magua from Last of the Mohicans since he was just one ruthless motherf****r.

It's interesting that you pick a real life "villain" as your point of reference. do you think that fictional villains derive some element from their real life counterparts?

I just thought Osama would be a good example since everyone knows and understands what he does. I think some fictional villains are inspired by actual villains but they are glamorized more then their real life counterparts. Fictional situations are usually much more fast paced and exciting then reality too. If someone was to write the story of how Osama planned 9/11 and the story of how the hijackers did it all it would be kind of boring until the end where as most often in fiction things aren't drawn out over years or if they are they just highlight the most exciting parts.

Good fictional villains usually take at least one cue from real life villains...

They always think they're righteous! Whether it's OBL, Hitler or that jerk from Virginia Tech, real villains always have a way to justify their crimes, and the most compelling fictional villains do too. They’re never just ‘evil’.

Another thing I like in a villain is something, anything that makes them sympathetic and relatable (even Hitler loved his dog). For me, sympathy makes their crimes that much more shocking and tragic.

A good example of a tragic, likeable, sympathetic villain is Gul Dukat from DS9. He goes from being a petty tyrant to an almost hero to a Satan-like figure but behind it all, he was really just a pathetic little narcissist.

I would say Frank Costello from The Departed is a good villain character who is plain evil and gets by on just his "coolness" factor.

I'm not too big on the sympathy-for-villains front, however I think being able to llike a villain is important (just look at all the Sephiroth fans out there), and that their goals and reasoning should be understandable, in a twisted logic sort of sense.

But what about the infamous "evil overlord" villains, the supernatural inhuman personifications of evil as a force? Take Cthulhu or Sauron, both of whom have proven incredibly popular despite lacking any real motivation other than to be evil for evil's sake?

I think the reason a character like sauron is seen as a good villain is because you end up liking the good guys in that story so much that sauron seems more evil and sinister then he really is. Same thing with Costello he is a good villain also because you are so sympathetic to Costigan.

I think people like villains because they're attracted to power. That's why I like 'em at least.

HAH! This is really kinda off topic, but in the first book I wrote, the villain's name was Vozack. So it's so hilarious to see a thread about villains created by a guy named Vorzac. XD

Alfred Bestor from Babylon 5 is a good example of a villian. The way he is so devout in his belief of telepaths and how he is always so calm and calculating. Not to mention he can be ruthless when he needs to be but never resorts to brutish tactics like basing a guy over the head while sneaking behind them. More along the lines of kidnapping a senior officer and modifying one little piece of his mind so nobody would notice but it was enough for him to achieve his ends.

I like having a good antagonist in a story as well, but there are some stories where there really isn't a main antagonist at all and the characters do some wrong things for good intentions. The greatest example that I can think of is from "Princess Mononoke". I'm sure there are plenty of books that also show how human the characters can be. This kind of setting really brings out the character development and that is what gives a story a good plot at times. But yeah, good antagonists are what really give stories a good climax.

I guess it all comes down to personal taste, but I really don’t respond to those villains.

More and more I find myself drawn to stories with conflict, but where right and wrong, good and evil are ambiguous...

A good example of this sort of story would be Battlestar Galactica (new version)...

I’m sure most people approach BSG with the expectation that the Cylons are evil and the humans are good... one of the most appealing things about the show for me is that it constantly undermines that expectation.

My favorite character from the show is Dr. Baltar, a man who’s indirectly responsible for the genocide of the human race, directly responsible for the deaths of over 9000 survivors of the genocide and collaborator in the Cylon enslavement of the last 40,000 humans left alive! In spite of all this, Baltar is a very charming, likeable, sympathetic character and it’s VERY hard not to root for him...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mnTHGOt2Xw[/youtube]

The only 'acceptable' vilain that came in to my mind was Gollum.

Number 1 vilain: Judas.

I don't like vilains except if they can be seen by a good side.

just in time: don't like Judas.

I always stick up for the villains.