Children's books having darker themes than TV or film

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T.W. sensitive topics are likely to be discussed in this thread. Death, abuse, suicide, harming of animals, torture etc. Feel free to move this to the adult section if you see fit.

Just something I've been thinking about. Growing up, I remember reading a few of the original Grimm brother's fairy tales in the school library. The original tale of Cinderella was considerably graphic. I even remember our school teachers making young adult books a part of the required reading when I was about nine. My mum and I read one of these books together and I remember feeling upset when we got to the part about the main character being expected to drown a group of kittens. He refused and his dad essentially disowns him. It was a messed up book.

A considerable amount of books, even those aimed at kids, I read as a child were pretty dark. Jacqueline Wilson is a notable example. The mentions of suicide, domestic abuse and violence stuck with me. I remember one story of hers where the mother commits suicide and it went into uncomfortable detail about it. However, this approach would definitely not fly on TV aimed at teenagers without a lot of pushback. Generally, there are rules that you can't directly show the method of suicide and should avoid showing suicide notes to decrease the chance of copycat suicides. If you break those rules, you'll end up with a higher age rating and may risk cancellation.

There is something amusing about the fact I could freely and was encouraged to read about suicide, and topics such as a kid having intrusive thoughts about becoming a murderer but I also grew up around people arguing about whether kids should know that gay people exist and my initial exposure to the concept was as an insult used by other teenagers. Granted, I don't think normal quite covers my childhood.

Another example is being taken around a medieval prison at age eleven and shown torture devices (with descriptions of how they were used) but apparently swearing is taking it too far. Censorship when it comes to what we expose children to can be strange and inconsistent. It can vary heavily in school districts.

Sometimes I see articles that say such things as "Why X is darker than you remember" and I read it and I remember bringing up the exact same points to my teachers as to why I disagreed with the implications and the moral of the book as a child but was told to shut up, just enjoy it like everyone else and stop overthinking it. I was actively discouraged from asking questions.

Further, we still tell children nursery rhymes despite how messed up they all are. Yet we argue whether a bunch of cartoon horses can talk about death, whilst singing songs about the black death (Ring around the Rosie) and execution due to not paying taxes (Oranges and lemons, granted when it's played it's usually only the first bit and then it cuts to instrumental but the full lyrics are quite something).

It is a very strange thing, I agree. Why are we removing mature films from adult-oriented media but not children's? I feel as though it has something to do with the vocal SJWs around the world calling for media to be cleaner. I think there is a place for dark media in the mainstream and in the niche - heck, there's a whole Internet community dedicated to writing hurt/comfort fiction (where a character is tortured/hurt or cared for/comforted afterwards/during) which isn't tied to any other media but is its own genre, with characters and scenarios made specifically for it. And the community is actually filled with really nice people who know they're just exploring their darker sides through this fiction.
I have definitely noticed dark themes in Jacqueline Wilson's work, but I still like her as an author even now. Some books are darker than others though (Lola Rose, My Sister Jodie, Cookie, The Illustrated Mum vs The Butterfly Club, The Lottie Project, Best Friends, Opal Plumstead for instance).

I was brought up with Noddy. I know what you mean!

TL;DR so sorry if I say something that's already been mentioned here, but the old Scary Stories To Tell In The Dark books come into mind here. When I listen to the audiobook of that on Youtube, it gives me the creeps more than some of these horror movies that are out today.

That's really strange... Horror is meant to be dark so I don't see why this is the case...

Scary Stories To Tell In The Dark is actually supposed to be a children's book, which surprised me when I found out.

That's what I was confused about. How is a children's book scarier than a modern horror film?

The book is quite old and apparently things aimed at children weren't so child-friendly in the olden days.

If you've ever seen or heard of the children's TV drama, Grange Hill, you'll know what I'm talking about. The series during the 80s involved drug use, and it also involved other things such as alcohol, smoking, death and even some swearing (well, not strong language but words like "b***h", which these days wouldn't be used in any children's TV shows).

I bet if South Park was created in the 70s or 80s that would be considered a children's show and nobody would bat an eye.

Things were MORE prudish in the past. Not less so.

South Park would have been banned even for ADULTS if it had existed in the pre cable TV Seventies.

Maybe certain areas were more prudish than others? Surely both statements can overlap.

SouthPark would not a be a childrens show in any era i have lived through or know about.

But absolutely society gets more prudish in some ways as it gets less prudish in other ways.

Movies became more frank about sex, and drugs, in the Sixties. And finnally in the late Sixties the taboos were finnally dropped, and they were forced to create the modern ratings systems for movies so you knew if you could take kids or not.

Soon after that Mel Brooks exploited the new freedoms to the hilt with his comedy "Blazing Saddles". The movie is interesting today because it was made just after the old kinds of prudery were dropped, but before modern political correctness kicked in. So it has both a lot of raunch, but also a lot of playful use of racial and ethnic stereotypes in a non mean spirited way (its a very anti racist movie actually) that you couldnt do today.

Harry Potter and Goosebumps are kids' books that can get very dark. I'll bet many parents would be surprised. I read these with my son so I know, but most parents probably didn't. Redwall is probably far less dark, there is warfare but no gruesomeness that I can recall. In fact the warfare was fairly tame as I recall. The only downside was that certain types of animal were presented as "vermin" which might not resonate well with some people.

I don't know much about South Park other than vague statements of it being offensive in some way (in multiple ways possibly?) so I can't comment on that.
Harry Potter definitely gets dark in the later sections. Avatar: the Last Airbender can also get quite dark. I don't think we should cleanse children's media of dark things, because then children won't have that way to learn about the dark elements present in real life. But we shouldn't make it too dark either. It's a sliding scale and I think different shows fill different slots, even today.

Yeah, The Last Airbender can be quite dark along with The Legend Of Korra.

I have watched South Park and most of the humour relies on shock and absurdity. The creators intentionally push the limits because they want to know what they can get away with. In the UK, Netflix rates South Park as an 18. Although teenagers do find ways to watch the show, they could certainly never get away with lowering the ranking.

My sister made me read the Harry Potter books when I was younger and I've watched the films as well. I agree that they're quite dark at times. Percy Jackson and Magnus Chase also deal with darker material throughout the books. Granted, children's books is quite a big category and a book aimed at a sixteen year old is going to differ from one aimed at a twelve year old. I'd say that Magnus Chase is aimed at older kids and it amused me when the line "I showed him a sign he didn't need sign language to understand" managed to be included in the books. The series age with the intended audience. Censorship can be strange, apparently a beheading, homelessness and suicide is fine but the main character can't say the f word. It mentions LGBT homelessness rates, being disowned and disability discrimination (in the case of a deaf character) which is fairly dark.

I know that the first Percy Jackson series is going to be turned into a TV show, which I'm excited for. The films were a let down so I'm hoping the show will be better and I hear it is going to be more faithful to the books. I expect we'll hear complaints from parents about violence and the monsters scaring their kids. Still, I hope it doesn't get cancelled. It'll probably have a 12+ age rating or a PG I'd expect. People have pointed out that it being live action might mean a higher age rating, compared to if it were a cartoon since CGI monsters are likely to be considered scarier. In the later books, it goes into the psychological effects of their experiences and I know in one of the more recent stories there was a discussion where PTSD is mentioned. However, I think it's unlikely that we'll see Heroes Of Olympus and Trials Of Apollo (which is where the PTSD is mentioned), I'm still happy with getting the first series though - that's a lot of content. If we ever do get Heroes Of Olympus on screen, then I think I'm going to have to mentally prepare to witness The Mark Of Athena and The House Of Hades again. (I loved both of those books but they sure were an emotional rollercoaster and at one point I just had to take a break and stare at a wall to just take in what had happened. ) Sorry, I should stop talking before I spoil anything.

Why do people whine about darker concepts being shown anyway? Surely kids need to have asafe way to learn about dark things in the world?

South Park has gotten very dark and rude throughout recent seasons, and contains a lot of adult content like heavy drug use, graphic sex, gory violence, terrorism, paedophilia, and anything else you can think of. I don't think I would let my children watch if I had young children. If I had teenage children I'll probably let them watch it though, even if they're still underage, but it's really not something small children should watch as it's too intense for young minds and it is aimed at teens and adults.