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Jonny
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26 Aug 2007, 3:13 pm

Would love to get into poetry again. Although my only experience is at school in eng lit classes which I loved. Due to my strict parents I had to go the maths and science route.

I want to start reading poetry again but I don;t know where to start and forgot how to appreciate it.

What do you look for when you read poetry? How do you know what is good poetry? I once read a description of peotry as aesthetics in words.

I like atmospheric poetry, maybe ones which involve the night, or autumn.



zebedee
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26 Aug 2007, 3:57 pm

I'm not a big reader of poetry but I did an Open University writing course last year so had to write a bit - if your interested in the technical side of poetry the best book I've seen so far is The Ode Less Travelled: Unlocking the Poet Within by Stephen Fry - it might even spur you to write some :)



squatterandtheant
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26 Aug 2007, 4:05 pm

In Hate and Love
I Killed a fly and
Offered it to an ant.


Have you tried Williams Blake's Collection 'Songs of Innocence and Experience'



Papillon
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28 Aug 2007, 4:04 pm

Jonny,

I'll try to answer your Q not so much as one who knows extensively about what poetry should be but as one who writes it sometimes.

The better poems I find are condensed stories full of subtleties that are subject to interpretation by the reader.

This is one I wrote about a personal experience during high school and I chose it because I think any Aspie could relate to it quite easily. It is called: From My Little Black Book

You can view the undissected version through this link:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php? ... ic&t=11661

I copied, pasted and dissected the same on this page:


From My Little Black Book The title was inspired by an excerpt from Pink Floyd's The Wall: "Got a little black book with my poems in it"


Alone against The Wall wild-eyed
Alone I stood in their spotlights
Alone, dressed like a referee
A lone object of damning evidence
No way to offer what redemption
For that master’s final solution
-I was made to go in front of the classroom after presenting my findings on an assignment about Wuthering Heights

It happened back in seventy-nine -1979/80 was my last year in HS, the same time Pink Floyd's The Wall topped the charts

You all know ‘xactly who I am -I was extremely unpopular in HS

The stage was set, the show must go on
A judge’s wig the master donned
And what a nightmare he ‘morphosed
Through one brown eye he huffed and roared
Those wildly fluttering cheeks what gore
And how it echoed from The Wall!
-The giant talking arse with the judge's wig on the sleave of the album and in the animated video version

O State of Denmark! What a stench!
All I wanted to do was retch
-an echo to The Trial at the end of the album (in the animated video version the giant arse defecates)

Throughout the Hamlet it got known -We studied Shakespeare's Hamlet in that same classroom

However strange, no profits scored
Ne'er a ticket was ever sold
For the greatest comedy ever told
-The teacher made such a spectacle humiliating me in front of the class, to this day I wonder why he never sold tickets

All were far too rapt in laughter
New entry in the local lore
-My reputation as a pariah was sealed in the wake of that event. It was just one of many times I was humiliated by that teacher

But oh how easy ‘tis to remember
The bobby’s name that teacher bore
-Notice the words "referee" and "scored" in the above verses (hockey terms). That teacher shared the same name with a lengendary hockey player.

This eve the dust cometh to rest
Upon the ruins that were our Hamlet
-The old school campus is slated for demolition

‘Neath ebon skies as a star shone
A very strange and earthy tone
-Uranus; I'll s**t on them all and the horses they rode in on

My door is open, a keg I’ve tapped
Just come on in, we’ll hoist one more
We’ll have a toast, memories of yore
And maybe then, you’ll find out who I am
-An invitation to those very few who were my friends.
As for that teacher, that whole classroom, and all others who tested me there, I am Papillon shouting defiantly from the raft at the end of the movie of the same name: "Hey! You bastards! I'm still here you bastards!"


_________________
If "manners maketh man" as someone said
Then he's the hero of the day
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say

**Sting, Englishman In New York


mightyzebra
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30 Aug 2007, 11:44 am

If you want to read poetry, then I suggest a good bookshop or library. You could try adult OR children's poems. I think William Blake is good and so are lots of other poets (for some reason William Blake is the first to come up in my mind). Some of the ones on this site are good.

If you want to write poetry, then you could start with your meaning. It could be a poem expressing humour, life, death or maybe happiness. Then, you could think about how you are going to write it. Is it going to rhyme? Is it NOT going to rhyme? Is it going to be a haiku? Then you will have to think about what to say in the poem. Does it have a storyline, or is it a message to the reader? Let your imagination flow like a fast stream, or spread like wildfire. Let your brain storm with passion and ideas - and if the result is rather deflated like a floppy balloon - well, if you don't first succeed - try again! :-)

Regards, mightyzebra



MeshGearFox
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30 Aug 2007, 2:03 pm

I hear the Steven Fry book is pretty good. A good, quality intro to poetry that will not bore you.

Poetry -- like all art -- is personal. You should read what connects with you. Forget the technicalities and the aesthetics and read what you like. Theme, subject and use of language should appeal to you. Get an anthology or look on the web and note the poets you like.

I don't like Chaucer, as reading old English gives me a headache and is too much work. I don't like Sidney and Edmund Spenser for being too darn prim, high-falutin and ridiculous. I really need to be in the mood for Milton, as his use of language is perverted and ugly. Ezra Pound is just plain over-rated.

I like Wordsworth for his more down-to-earth style and the romantic subjects of nature and the outcast. I like Donne for his prickly sentence construction and his stark, clever conceits and paradoxes. I like Emily Dickinson for her funny take on things, her light/dark contrasts, her original approach to poetic construction, her metaphors and out-there weirdness. (I like Paul Celan for similar reasons.) Whitman's original Leaves of Grass is great for its optimism, inclusiveness and freedom.

Enjoy!



Jonny
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10 Sep 2007, 4:12 pm

Thanks everyone.

Papillion, I like you poem! Do you have anymore?

I started reading Wordsworth the other day. I saw a programme on TV about the Lake District and mentioned him. I really dig his fascination with nature. I'm going to buy a book of his works as I hate reading from websites.

Can anyone recommended poets for more darker themes?



Sand
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16 Sep 2007, 8:44 am

Some of my poems can be found at http://www.artvilla.com/mair/sand.htm

Sand



Papillon
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16 Sep 2007, 7:36 pm

Hey Jonny,

Here's a condenced story about a 19th Century French artist that I seem to connect to in ways I can't explain. Call me having gone off my rocker, call me having lost my marbles, or call it just another poem; whatever it is, it's called The Last Impression.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php? ... ic&t=40612


_________________
If "manners maketh man" as someone said
Then he's the hero of the day
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say

**Sting, Englishman In New York


Sand
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17 Sep 2007, 4:28 am

THE JANITAUR

There came a time, at last, for the race of man
To pack itself into a huge tin can
And, puffing plasma, set out for the stars.
With a sidelong glance at Mars they fled
From off their planet, which they'd made dead.
For a million years they'd picnicked on those grounds,
Then left them, bleak with blacks and browns
Of ragged rocks and rotting wrecks of trees and stinks
And oozing slimes and burning fogs smoke out of chinks.
Off to find another place on which to plant the human race.
Three quarters of a century it took to far Centaurus.
A multitude of winking beer cans marked their daily trail,
And stubbed out butts and bottles; a cracked recording
Of the Anvil Chorus. They'd scribbled on the firmament
With several hundred million miles of toilet paper
In jagged lines across their spoor of ion vapour,
And tastefully distributed along their run
Were gobs of dog and cat s**t by the ton.
Four hundred trillion cockroach corpses
Tumbled in a cometary tail
To advertise man's glory
In departure from his sun.

On planet four, Centaurus Alpha, lived a race of crystals.
Pristine, cubic, pyramid, cylindrical, prismatic,
Airborne, groundbased, and aquatic. How they shone
And twinkled in the sun as they rolled across the stones
Of their tesselated highways, threaded
'Round their crystal flowers
Reflecting intersecting rays of light
Connecting glassy towers.
Catching, tossing, juggling light beams just for fun -
But then...their huge reflectors duly noted,
Since they had been vacuum coated,
The approaching garbage complex fleeing from Earth's sun.
Facets flashed with fright and horror
At this disgusting Earth explorer
Come to desecrate their purity,
Violate their clarity, security,
Rain detritus down on everyone.
So, with haste and hyperspacial radio
The crystals sent a frantic call to Scorpio,
To the Cosmic Cleaner Consultation Center
Complaining of the coming filth fomenter.
"Earth," they screamed, "has done a flit.
And now is wildly flinging s**t.
Frankly, we are in a snit.
By your oath, you must stop it!"

And the Center answered, "Cool it kid,
We'll make it quit."


In Scorpio there is a place between the stars,
Stuck out in space, a place with bars
Which tight entombs a monster out of death and doom.
When the center acted on the call to banish
Earth's star ship and make it vanish,
It initiated mechanisms to enforce the ostracism
By directing cataclysm of the very fabric
Of the geodesic of its trace.
One parsec tall colossal doors on this place
Parted to divide and free the thing they'd kept inside.
It took six months to open wide at speeds FTL
And wake the beast that snoozed inside this convoluted shell.
The Janitaur pricked up its ears,
Wiped sleep from off its sensors,
It yawned a yawn and belched a belch
That squelched three nearby suns
And turned then into meteors
The size of hot cross buns.

"Janitaur," the Center spoke to now evoke
An action in this thing it woke,
"You are assigned to launch yourself
And search and find, eliminate
A new distress. Sector five, quadrant eight
Is the place you must address.
A steel ship out of Sol contains
All that now remains of humanity.
And with pandemic, systematic
Quite erratic antisanity
They've trashed their Earth, despised its worth,
And now they've quit their native sun
To litter up another one.
So..sic 'em baby, bite their tails
And knock their blocks right off the rails!"

At this command, the Janitaur unrolled its lacy wings
Which spanned out to a million miles, composed of cosmic strings.
Its flashing eyes - two neutron stars,
Pulsed out with spinning beams
With evil glances, left and right, from out of horrid dreams.
Grinning wide gravitic tide, its mouth a large black hole,
Each wicked tooth, bereft of ruth, a pointed monopole.
On winds of stellar fields it soared in hyperspacial mode
And gathered speed in looping glides and gyrals, so it rode
Swooping down galactic spirals hewing to its plan
To intercept and countervail the garbage can of man.
It gobbled moons like salted nuts
And sailed through stellar clouds
As cosmic dust streamed off its wings
In trailing ragged shrouds.

At sector five, quadrant eight, the Janitaur soon sighted
Where Earth's ship had left its trail
And thoroughly had blighted
The calm sterility of space.
With its black hole, the Janitaur
Swept clean the dirty place.
But this act could not console
The fearful driving force
That held it to its destiny in its destructive role.
At once, the human ship appeared,
The monster twisted, swerved and veered
To watch in fascination
The Earth ship unfailingly perform its aberration.
Spewing out with gobbets, with gigatons of garbage:
Apple cores and orange peels and leaves of rotten cabbage,
Worn out scraps of rubber heels,
Corroded chunks of rusty steels,
Dented trays from TV meals
And mashed up cars with wiggly wheels.

It flapped its wings and moved in close.
So much garbage made it savage,
Lachrymose and bellicose.
Confused, bemused, enthused by so much mess
It all induced internal stress.
It curled, it twirled, it whirled, became delirious,
And swooped in flopping manic arcs
Exploding out in corruscate displays
Initiating strange atom decays.
Bright beams of ions, neutrons, quarks
Flashed and fizzled, squirting sparks.
The edge of its event horizon twitched.
The space around the Janitaur became bewitched
With garbage boundlessly enriched.
It rippled out gravitic tongues
To sweep debris at all degrees
And would have laughed if it had lungs.
But these wild enthusiasms
Convulsed in waves and jerks and spasms
Causing cracks, fissures, chasms
In its black collapsar core.
Into itself it deeply plunged
And was, peculiarly, expunged

From this known universe of time and space.
And so, garbage, all of it,
Dogshit, catshit, mainly BS,
As before, and ever more,
Was the savior of the human race.



whodat54321
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18 Sep 2007, 1:44 am

for me, writing is easier when the form is simple
like haiku. the words can be what you want, as long as the syllable count is there.
this is one i wrote about my struggle with empathy.

my heart's empathy
i want it to speak clearly
but i don't know how
i see others do it well
but it is lost on my mind

it's all parroting
or saying things that hurt more
misinterpreting
or just plain forgetting it
adding shame on top of guilt

is it eggshells here
or a minefield i tread on
do i crack the shells
or just jump straight in and blow
my spirit into more pieces

what do i do now
to say what my heart feels?
but my brain can't find
the capacity to talk
in a way that's comforting

the awareness now
chokes my mind off completely
it's a struggle now
to even know what's right now
and what is just repeating

i lose more sleep now
it nags at my weary soul
an empathy block
where is the right way to go
that will release my feelings?

i feel defeated
a mutant that has gone mute
losing my own voice
turning talk into a fight
between my soul and my mind

silence is very long
as the war inside is on
what the world sees now
is not what is really there
and there's no way to show it

nothing is o.k.
ray, could you please stop right now
i don't feel the love
the words echoing around
this is the truth about me?

positive thinking?
how does that fit in this mess?
one of my making
what am i learning from this?
only God knows the answer


hope that helps a little.....



MerryBerry
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20 Sep 2007, 5:11 pm

As for getting into poetry again, it might be a good idea to get a few anthologies of the work of lots of poets, to see which ones you like, for example, 'The Oxford Book of Twentieth Century English Verse' has lots of different poets and styles of poetry, then just follow up on a few whose work you enjoy. I find a lot of poetry by Googling poetry websites.



Coyote27
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20 Sep 2007, 9:57 pm

My advice is to just write whatever comes into your mind, through following the stream of consciousness eventually you'll stumble onto something you really like. Also, it's perfectly fine to start out with really short verses, when you get the muse for a longer piece you'll know, just run with it. Sometimes you can come back to something you wrote a long time ago and improve or expand it a great deal since you bring fresh ideas.

Also, if you ask me, studying others' poetry is best done when you're not working on your own. Best to be as completely original as possible, there's far too many derivative "artists" out there already.



Jonny
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25 Sep 2007, 3:25 pm

MerryBerry wrote:
As for getting into poetry again, it might be a good idea to get a few anthologies of the work of lots of poets, to see which ones you like, for example, 'The Oxford Book of Twentieth Century English Verse' has lots of different poets and styles of poetry, then just follow up on a few whose work you enjoy. I find a lot of poetry by Googling poetry websites.


Looks good, I think I will take a look at that book.

Oh I wasn't enquiring about writing poetry, just wanted to start reading and appreciating works.



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25 Sep 2007, 4:03 pm

Come up with the most pretentious concept you can think of and then be as vague about it as possible.



Coyote27
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25 Sep 2007, 8:16 pm

Veresae wrote:
Come up with the most pretentious concept you can think of and then be as vague about it as possible.


Indeed... there are people who will pay many thousands of dollars for art simply because they don't understand it.